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Vista Back door

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posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 11:29 AM
reply to post by ANNED

What? If they could turn on remote desktop, they'd not need to turn on remote desktop. And remote desktop is a mediocre way to remotely control a desktop, there are much better programs for that.

posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 11:36 AM

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
In any case I think, for the layperson, we would like to know if there is anything to concerned about? The conversation has got rather technical shall we say.

Okay, here's a brief non-technical summary:

1) The 'back door' mentioned in the opening post hasn't been verified, and most on here conclude that it almost certainly doesn't work as described.

2) The 'command' in the opening, that it mentioned typing in, is a flaw in Windows Vista (and perhaps, XP), that can/will crash your system, requiring a reboot.

3) Microsoft has cooperated, in some cases extensively, with government and law enforcement organizations, to provide requested tools and capabilities in their products.

4) Nothing you do on a consumer computer, regardless of it being a Windows, Mac, or Linux machine, can be guaranteed as "private" or "secure".

5) You should assume that a sufficiently-trained computer expert can access the browsing history, connection logs, files, etc., on your computer, if given physical access to the machine. Some counter-measures to this exist ('privacy guard' programs), but they're a) often a money-making scam playing on people's fears, and b) not provably complete in the amount of 'cleaning' they do.

6) If you're worried about government secret back doors into your computer, remember that, even if such things do exist, what the government can actually do with information so obtained is somewhat limited - else they would risk having 'secret' capabilities revealed. Are you that big a fish?

Edit: oops fixing point #1!

[edit on 6-12-2008 by Ian McLean]

posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 11:47 AM
This is a great example on how people view everything as a conspiracy.

In this case the only conspiracy is you as the administrators of your computer hacked your own system by blowing a hole in your security wall.

Hey wait I got another conspiracy….

If you type /format C: it starts a dormant virus that wipes your hard drive. The government had Microsoft put this dormant virus in to prevent people from collecting and saving anarchist material.

BTW, the reason why there are not a lot of Apple viruses around is because there are not a lot of Apple computers and so the impact of the virus is small, so it is not worth the virus programmer's time to do it. I do believe there may be cases where antivirus software companies could make their own viruses to promote their products, but no one has been caught doing this yet so this is a conjecture of what might be possible.

Edit to add...

The Goverment doesn't need a back door to windows to collect all your documents, pictures etc...

Unless you use something like PGP they can easily get what ever they want, but it would mean physically getting your hard drive, and that is what they would do if they feel the need.

[edit on 6-12-2008 by Xtrozero]

posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 11:52 AM
Skyfloating beat me to it: DO NOT RUN THE CODE IN THE OP!

What's a great way of infecting computers, but do it in the guise of "Hey! Check out this Windows flaw!". That junk at the end of the command could be doing anything.

Debian, Ubuntu etc.. are NOT "extremely secure". Precisely because Linux in general is so highly configurable, it can be so easily mis-configured, and thus leads you into a false sense of security! If you are concerned about attack from the 'net, INVEST IN A HARDWARE FIREWALL, or better yet, DON'T CONNECT IT TO IT.

NEWSFLASH: There is a flaw in the PRNG used in several major distros of LInux that has existed for OVER 10 YEARS! ANY cryptographic keys generated with this PRNG are WEAK, and are NOT to be used. It is a particular problem for keys used in RSA. This problem was only discovered a few months ago (and Debian and Ubuntu were two that were affected, amongst many others).

Windows 2000 PRNG has a security flaw, too, rendering it useless for generation of cryptographic keys. XP and Vista appear to be OK.

IT security is far more complex than it first appears.

The mere fact your systems are attached to the internet instantly makes them vulnerable.

If anyone has a problem understanding terms, get a dictionary. I don't mean this in a nasty way, but it is surprising just how mis-understood these terms are, and how few people really understand what is meant.

This link was posted further up:

Windows Vista Buffer Overflow in CreateIpForwardEntry2() May Let Local Users Gain Elevated Privileges

THIS IS NOT REMOTELY EXPLOITABLE! This is a LOCAL exploit (meaning the user needs to be sat at the keyboard of the system they are attacking).

Another link:

Since this buffer overflow overwrites kernel memory, it could be possible that members of the Network Configuration Operator group exploit this and take control over the operating system without any restriction.

This one is only serious if it can be remotely exploited. The big question is: can it?

[edit on 6-12-2008 by mirageofdeceit]

posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 12:27 PM
reply to post by spitefulgod

Spitefulgod reminds me of Nick Burns from the SNL Skits.

Nick Burns - Your Company's Computer Guy

posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 06:53 PM
Microsoft Vista, is said to stand for an NSA program named:






So let's put lots of stupid wacky and deranged conspiracy stuff about ruling Elite's turning the world into a giant dictatorship and Outer Space Aliens living in underground bases and abducting us for DNA experimentation so that the Microsoft National Security Agency geeks get their heads spinning off the socket.

posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 02:17 AM
Not at all surprising if true, but if the government really wanted to hack my computer, I don't think that they would need to have any backdoors in my operating system, they could just do it directly from their hacking offices

My OS is not Vista anyways, it's XP, don't really think that makes a difference either way.

posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 03:42 AM
Why would MS put in such a feature at the request of the US government when their operating systems are sold internationally?

Obvious BS.

[edit on 7-12-2008 by VelvetSplash]

posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 04:13 AM
reply to post by fleabit

Good point. Why move pixels around when you can access the raw data. Anybody involved with data backup knows the most effective way is at the block level. Why deal with the OS if you can access the raw code that runs the hard drive. Right there in the chips themselves is the best place for the "tap".

Virtualisation, Hyper-Visors are neat tech but I fear that it just makes it easier to tap the source. Why deal with the OS level when you can get to the data stream running on the controller of the hard drive.

I remember a story about laptops sold to defense contractors had back doors built into the hardware that took pictures using the built in web cams in the LCD frame. The images were good enough to read the papers on the actual desk the laptop was sitting on. The backdoor was not in the OS but in the actual silicon itself.

posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 04:58 AM

Originally posted by Ian McLean
4) Nothing you do on a consumer computer, regardless of it being a Windows, Mac, or Linux machine, can be guaranteed as "private" or "secure".

Well unless it's a standalone computer physically locked away in a secure place where only you have access to. It's not just consumer computer's but also corporate, the human factor usually represents the greatest risk (system admins being blackmailed or bribed in order to steal data or just employees with grudges or wanting to make a fast buck).

6) If you're worried about government secret back doors into your computer, remember that, even if such things do exist, what the government can actually do with information so obtained is somewhat limited - else they would risk having 'secret' capabilities revealed. Are you that big a fish?
[edit on 6-12-2008 by Ian McLean]

I'm not involved in any way but I can imagine this. Suppose there is some evidence of a person doing something illegal but the investigators don't want that person to be aware of a pending investigation. Observing the subject unaware via secret backdoors in their computers is much easier to gather information and based on what they find more conventional methods of gathering evidence might be set in motion. No need for any requests for inspections or permission to observe a civilian, a judge can't give permission for something that doesn't exist right? It's all much easier if you know what you're looking for in advance, saves a lot of time and manpower.

And what better way for those in power to learn of what their rivals are up to? I wouldn't be suprised if those in power have all the secret channels at their disposal to gather data from other politician's computers that run Vista and set their strategy accordingly.

[edit on 7-12-2008 by Dragonfly79]

posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 07:54 AM
Out of curiosity, it seems a lot of you go to extraordinary means to keep your data protected on your computer. What are you trying to hide? What data that you have is so important that you spend all the time and effort for the small chance that the government might actually seize your computer?

posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 09:19 AM
reply to post by chucktaggart

The government can byte (sic) my ass before they get a hold of my data illegal or not, anywho if the government wanted to prosecute you for items on your machine they could get you for illegal music, conspiracy (terrorist?) websites or anything else if they want you they'll pin anything on you, everything is illegal nowadays

posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 09:31 AM

Originally posted by Runningtobabylon

This stuff is scary, according to his sources this back door was added at the request of the US government as part of the PATRIOT ACT. You type a
[edit on 6-12-2008 by Skyfloating]

Ok, everybody is talking their computer lingo, does anybody know if this is actually in the Patriot Act?

posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 12:11 PM
Lol will a mod just remove this thread, that "script" is just blindedly smashing keys on your keyboard.

Perhaps this thread is started by the government to test the stupidity and gullibility of the conspiracy realm. XD

posted on Dec, 8 2008 @ 03:16 PM
Ok, guys - my brother is one of those types that knows all about everything... you know the type... well - he is also a hired gun he
programs and this is what he says,

If I did not know better, you might have gotten me here.

This adds a hole to your computer that was not there before. DO NOT DO THIS.

This is NOT a backdoor. This is a scam to get you to ADD a backdoor access address to the computer.

And this does not just work in Vista, it works on all route-able computers, including Apple’s.

Thank You,

additional information removed due to his security clearance and yes he is a official story believer - and he is high up in govt computers and would know... but he still refuses to check it out... it either scared the hell out of him or he is part of their dis-info.... I was going to write about him but dont want to cause me brother any pains you know...

posted on Dec, 8 2008 @ 06:35 PM
reply to post by eventHorizon

heck this alone is reason enough not to use VISTA... lets be real here... PRO's at collecting data... for later use by Law Enforcement or worse to prosecute you for being Americian... this just makes my diaper rash flare up.

posted on Dec, 8 2008 @ 06:41 PM
Also, I would like to add == Quickbooks and other online finacial software is sort of like giving them information to know exactly how much money is needed and how much business needs generating to maintain the ECONomy on the CHeap... get it economy... he he he

yea, those budget brand diapers again ... gee when will parents learn.

posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 11:28 AM

Originally posted by BornPatriot
And this does not just work in Vista, it works on all route-able computers, including Apple’s.

Incorrect. This attempt to lure people into making a back door works only on Vista. It requires the broken route command in order to exploit the buffer overflow that is currently only present in windows vista. It doesn't work on Windows XP, I've tried out of curiosity. I'd bet you it doesn't even come close to working on a Mac. I haven't given it a spin on Server 2003 or 2008, but I'll do it if there's anyone who'd like to know.

Kind regards.

Edit to clarify: You need to have a BROKEN route command in order for this exploit to function, not just a system with a route command, which is basically any system out there today.

[edit on 9-12-2008 by Manawydan]

posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 05:08 PM
look Routing is the same on all platforms... this is a command that adds a access point to your computer.... ITS TCPIP not windows or apple... if you use this command the computer must be using TCPIP to ADD ROUTE..

posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 09:59 PM
reply to post by free-energy

I owe an apology for using the word "hate" in describing my feelings about the Gnome desktop.
A lot of people and companies have put a lot of effort in developing Gnome.
I don't want to insult any of the many diverse systems people use to post on ATS.

It may be a small thing but I do want to watch my manners and decorum and be as inclusive of other members as I can.

I do want to help deny ignorance by responding to incorrect statements about any of the operating systems.

All systems are vulnerable to the same kinds of attacks like the one in the original post and each of them deals with the threats in their own way.

Microsoft is in the process of building an excellent operating system. All of the systems continue to develop to keep up with the new hardware.

As an example of the cooperation that is going on and the millions in development that is being spent. Apple just released the Safari source code back to the Mozilla Foundation which is the developer of the Konqueror browser, the parent of Safari. The Chrome browser by Google is also a child of the Linux Konqueror browser.

So the Gnome desktop is now getting an Apple looking make-over.

I have both the Gnome and KDE desktops installed and use each one for it's own strengths.

I also have multiple operating systems installed along with a separate drive letter for the home user files so I can change the operating system any time without loosing my personal stuff.

If I crash one system or it refuses to do what I need I just boot to another system and continue with my project.

KDE is still my favorite desktop in Suse Linux.

The Suse Linux company made a profit of one billion dollars this year. Red Hat Linux made five hundred million. Hewlett Packard continues to invest millions in developing Ubuntu Linux.

I don't want to upset the good people at these companies and their hard work and dedication in bringing to best to us users.

I apologize for my gaffe profusely.

"I enjoy working with people." - HAL

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