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DNA database 'breach of rights'

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posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 05:17 AM

DNA database 'breach of rights'

Two British men should not have had their DNA and fingerprints retained by police, the European Court of Human Rights has ruled.

The men's information was held by South Yorkshire Police, although neither was convicted of any offence.

The judgement could have major implications on how DNA records are stored in the UK's national database.
(visit the link for the full news article)

posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 05:17 AM
Hmm. Does that put the final nail in the coffin of the governments biometric ID card scheme?

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith is "disappointed" apparently. Poor dear.

The judges ruled the retention of the men's DNA "failed to strike a fair balance between the competing public and private interests," and that the UK government "had overstepped any acceptable margin of appreciation in this regard".

Who says ties with European Human Rights laws are a bad thing?
(visit the link for the full news article)

posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 05:30 AM
Heres a fly in the ointment of the complete databse to held be for everyone by those in charge. And Smiths 'disappointed' Poor diddums, maybe she should have thought about having DNA and fingerprints taken of only convicted criminals instead of everyone arrested on a hunch or a whim.
I've allways said to family if you get arrested do not let take your Fingerprints without running a background check first and certainly do not allow them to take DNA unles you have in writing that it will be destroyed when your found innocent of whatever it is theyre trying to pin on you.

HAAHAAHAA and a single finger salute to the Government.

posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 08:37 PM
Just found this article on the BBC site myself, nearly posted but did a search first...

Only 2 exixting threads!

On a good note: glad about the decision of the European Court of Human Rights in making this judgement. Good to know they haven't been TOO overrun with NWO....just yet!.

On a bad note: 4.5 million other DNA samples are sitting in files that should also get destroyed. Scotland already destroys DNA samples if there is no conviction.

Tough titty if the Home Secretary Jacqui Smith is "disappointed".

"The existing law will remain in place while we carefully consider the judgement."

For how long? Let's hope not too long eh?

posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 09:33 PM

I'm so very happy about this. It's a real problem for their plans for a full biometric card. Whilst the card isn't cancelled this will be a good arguement against it. After all DNA and fingerprints aren't much different to having your retina scanned.

I am willing to bet the government will bring a new law out that says if you aren't convicted of anything then your details will remain on the database until you ask them to be removed. I really hope the other 4 million people on there will apply to have their details removed.

[edit on 4-12-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 09:45 PM
If its anything like the US, once its in the computer it NEVER goes away. Somewhere some place the record exists and they can find it if they want to. When you have computer memory capacity of 11 Zillion terrabytes of RAID type hard drive memory, no one is capable of erasing your individual information!


[edit on 12/4/2008 by ZindoDoone]

posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 09:57 PM
Yeah, it's a bit of a disaster. We have no way that data does not pass between groups, so that they can pick and choose your data in a case where they don't want you, and yet the crims can pick and choose, between data USB sticks. This government does not understand IT and it's implications.

posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 10:08 PM
No one should have there blood or dna taken without there permission.
It is cruel and evil.
Yes many people have committed many horrible crimes.
But doesn't doing this to them, make the system and society just as evil?
Clearly they use this, saying its for criminals.
Just to try and erode more of everyday peoples rights, in order to take blood from anyone they want whenever they want.
So they can keep it in databases, and do horrific evil things with it.
It should be reserved solely for those who have committed the most horrendous crimes.
It should not be standard practice for arrest.
After all you can be arrested for minor stupid things.
And then released without charge, like this.
Yet they still have your dna.
They could easily frame you for things.

posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 02:19 AM
reply to post by AgentOrangeJuice

Well in fairness anyone convicted of a crime should have their DNA and fingerprints taken. I have absolutely no issue with that. What i take issue with is people who give their DNA to prove themselves innocent having their details kept.

It's happened in the past that police have taken DNA samples from entire areas trying to find a rapist. Thousands of people giving their sample on the doorstep and these well meaning people, helping out the police have their details stored. To be treated like a criminal when you're not is very wrong.

posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 03:32 AM
Jacqui Smith is a dangerous MP. When ever a break of human rights or an action reminiscent of Stalinist Russia rears its ugly head, you can guess who was behind it.

I truly dislike that stupid woman

posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 04:28 AM
If there was a central governmental DNA database then it already exists and they already have your DNA.


When you are born in the UK they take bloods. They have you at that point.

It does not make financial/logistical sense to create a DNA database beyond this point. Way too much cost and you could expect to get a fraction of the population only.

This quasi-legal DNA database that crops up in the media every now and then is probably a smoke screen hiding the real thing.

The enemy to be concerned about is the one you do not know exists.

If there is a database that houses everyone's DNA from the bloods taken at birth then very few people will now about it as it would be illegal - unless there was a need for the database under some national security guise. This being the case you wouldn't know officially that this database exists and so you wouldn't be able to defend your rights against it.

The one question I have is this: So the government has your DNA, they have your personal details and they know your whereabouts at all times (RFID, CCTV or whatever) - what is it that they are going to do with this information that is so detrimental to you?

I ask this question honestly and in a non-argumentative manner as I do not see how I could be impacted by the government having my details on a DNA database. The only possible reasons I can think of are:

>>>They want to frame someone by using their DNA

There are far more simple, cost-effective, non-invasive, non-controversial and discreet methods for doing this.

>>>Monitor and remove dissenters of the government

You wouldn't need the DNA and besides, most dissenters are not too shy when it comes to public appearences against the government i.e. protests et al.

If there was a central governmental DNA database then what would they use it for?

[edit on 5/12/2008 by skibtz]

posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 05:52 AM

DNA database 'breach of rights'

Hmm. Does that put the final nail in the coffin of the governments biometric ID card scheme?

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith is "disappointed" apparently. Poor dear.

I sincerely hope your right. Then again one must not read too much into this, as it's so easy to manipulate people. I personally wouldn't trust the EU. All directives and legislation that's affecting our civil liberties and freedoms is coming directly from the EU and New Labour are only too happy to play ball.

Pretending that you have the peoples best interests at heart is the oldest trick in the book. On one hand you promise to protect the peoples rights and civil liberties, but on the other you are quietly working behind the scenes in secrecy doing the complete opposite and because the people don't know what you're really upto, they buy it hook line and sinker.

In today's Daily Mail (probably an exaggeration).

Yet more nonsense from New Labour and if you refuse to cooperate you'll be hit with a £1000 fine. I'm not sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if this was yet another EU directive.

Clipboard brigade to probe our private lives as Government plans sexual preference quiz.

In an unprecedented intrusion into private life, Government bureaucrats are to demand to know the sexual preference of millions.

Anyone questioned in a major national survey about their job, the food they buy or their fuel bills, will soon also be asked whether they are heterosexual, gay, bisexual or 'other'.

This means that a question about sexual identity is now almost certain to be included in the next census, which will be held in 2011.

Lie detector tests to catch benefit cheats.
Benefit claimants will face lie detector tests and will lose benefits for a month if found guilty of fiddling the system under proposals unveiled by Gordon Brown on the eve of today's spineless Queen's speech

This government gets more pitiful by the day.

[edit on 5-12-2008 by kindred]

posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 02:01 PM

Originally posted by skibtz
If there was a central governmental DNA database then what would they use it for?

I'm confused.

Apparently the government is collecting DNA to create a database and no one knows what they would use this database for!

If we don't know what they would use it for then what is the point in getting angry about it?

posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 02:12 PM

Originally posted by skibtz

Originally posted by skibtz
If there was a central governmental DNA database then what would they use it for?

If we don't know what they would use it for then what is the point in getting angry about it?

What is there NOT to get furious about? How incredibly sinister does that sound to you?

NOTHING can be justified by simply not telling the public.

posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 02:13 PM
People have every right to be annoyed. Last time I checked we are supposed to live in a democracy. The majority of people oppose this database, yet the government frankly couldn't give a damn what the people of this country think.

posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 02:18 PM
I appreciate that some people will get angry about it.

I just want to know why.

Why are you angry?

That someone has some details about you?

That someone has your DNA?

What do you think the government are going to do with this info?

I am not picking any fights here. I just dont understand where the anger is directed. Is it just a matter of our personal info being stored or are people angry because of what the government may do with that info?

posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 10:21 PM

Originally posted by skibtz
I appreciate that some people will get angry about it.

Why are you angry?

I can answer that simply. The DNA database was started as a way to take evidence from crime scenes in the hope that in future we would be able to compare samples. Time went by and we advanced and were able to process samples and match them to crime scenes with unheard of accuracy.

Now the DNA database is touted as a great way to catch criminals as their DNA is taken upon arrest.

This is my problem. Why should innocent people be lumped in with criminals? Taking everyones DNA is like assuming everyone is guilty until proven innocent, or at least assuming that everyone is about to commit a crime and that goes against the very idea of freedom.

Not to mention the very worrying idea that if in future some scumbag party like the BNP gets into power they will have been handed the tools to route out anyone they think is undesirable. We have to be careful with the powers we grant to governments, as successive governments may not be the restrained type.

posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 11:23 PM
It's sad really, not only are we lumped in with the criminals, these DNA tests basically label us as potential criminals. How many criminals have they actually caught with this database?


posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 11:48 PM
reply to post by Ign0rant

In fairness the DNA database is a simply brilliant idea for catching convicted criminals as they tend to re-offend. Cases that are 30 years old have been solved with this database, even murders. So lets not simply throw the database away out of hand.

I have nothing against the database having the details of already convicted criminals as their pathology suggests they will commit crimes again or are at a higher risk of committing crimes. However if someone is found innocent then their details should be removed from the database immediately.

posted on Dec, 8 2008 @ 05:45 AM
If you think the DNA database is sinister and unlawful, then you haven't seen anything yet, as it's just the tip of a very large iceberg.

Has your child been CAFed? How the Government plans to record intimate information on every child in Britain.

When police raided Tory MP Damian Green’s home, they ‘sheepishly’ asked whether children were present before ransacking it. His wife assumed they were being polite. But, under sinister new guidelines, officers must assess all children they encounter – including while ‘searching premises’ – for a police database called MERLIN.

This, in turn, feeds into a giant new Whitehall database on Britain’s children, Contact Point, which goes live nationally in January.

CAF includes eyewateringly intimate questions about children’s sexual behaviour, their family’s structure, culture and religion, their views on ‘discrimination’, their friends, secret fears, feelings and family income, plus ‘any serious difficulties in their parents’ relationship’.

How has such a terrifying intrusion into private life crept, almost unnoticed, under the radar? The answer is New Labour has cleverly packaged CAF as an aid to ‘child protection’ and delivering better services as part of its Every Child Matters project (ECM).

The £224million programme has been beset by delays, incomprehensible acronyms and New Labour gobbledegook. But let us not be deceived – it is about control, not care, and spying, not safety

The clock is ticking and time is running out.

Slowly but surely our democracy is being flushed down the toilet.

Irish to vote on EU treaty again as experts warn Britain could be signed up within a year. Britain could be signed up to a controversial European Union Constitution within a year, it has emerged. One diplomat said: 'There is still some tweaking to do, but there is an understanding.

Human rights: Straw to get tough and reform 'villains charter'

A further clamp down on the civil liberties and freedoms of villians, cough erm.. of all law abiding citizens.

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