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Why Do You Support The 911 Official Story?

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posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 10:56 AM
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To clarify my position, I've read books, articles, endless discussion online questioning the Official version of 9/11. I read what the self-proclaimed debunkers have to say, many linked to here

www.debunking911.com...

I also discuss the reporting phenomenon with people still active in publishing, some of whom I've known for decades.

Weighing it all in, I'll give some points to those who question the Official version. Not usually discussed, one of the biggest holes is the project funding sources the US avoids discussing. And some things are not quite right about the flight training school scenario.

But the destruction of the WTC Towers due to airlines filled with fuel flying into them, falls completely in line with the laws of physics and thermodynamics as demonstrated by experts in the field, most with no apparent agenda either way,

I'm sorry I don't have the time and resources to gather all the contrary to Truther version data that is out there, but those who maintain debunker sites have, and I strongly suggest contacting them. If this really is to be an open forum, I'd expect to see the debunking information put side by side with the Truther claims and compared rigorously.

I understand where Truthers are coming from, and I'm there in spirit. Many so-called debunkers were listwning to the naysayers early on. I think they're going after technical inconsistencies in the incomplete video and photographic record, with it's inevitable errors, while the bigger story, the complex US love-hate relationship with Saudi Arabia, is given short shift.

They also do not address the painful reality that tens of thousands, some estimate as many as a quarter million Americans, would have had to be complicit in keeping their foreknowledge a secret. In an era where blabbing to the press is a way to get rich quick, it's tough to swallow hundreds not coming out and cashing in on what they know, after all
these years.


Mike F



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 10:58 AM
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posted by SPreston
Where are these thousands of first hand reports from ordinary people you allude to?


posted by CameronFox
Would FDNY staff be considered "ordinary?"

If so:

A rich vein of city records from Sept. 11, including more than 12,000 pages of oral histories rendered in the voices of 503 firefighters, paramedics, and emergency medical technicians, were made public on Aug. 12. The New York Times has published all of them.


12,000 pages Spreston... I suggest you grab a hot chocolate and a comfy chair. You have some reading to do.


I am quite aware of the oral histories of NYC, but we are discussing the 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY in this thread and the oral histories in no way, shape, or form support the OFFICIAL STORY. Now I am not going through them all again, but just take the 6th one down the list, fireman John Amato, and look at his account.

He perhaps unknowingly, supports the INSIDE JOB demolition of the Towers. He saw the roof antenna which was sitting on the core structure coming straight down. That means the massive core structure was severed somewhere by explosives just like eyewitness James Gartenberg told us, because there is no possible way a puny little airplane severed that entire core structure.

There are thousands of accounts contained within the oral histories and in other areas, which support demolition of the towers. I suggest you have never bothered to read nor study them.


FIREFIGHTER JOHN AMATO
Interview Date: January 2, 2002

The south tower collapsed first. We
didn't know what kind of collapse it was. We
thought it was a partial collapse. We thought it
was maybe two floors pancaking.

I looked, and
I could see the antenna on the top of the roof
coming straight down.


Then lets go down to #12, firefighter Richard Banaciski. None of the other individuals up to #12 support the OFFICIAL STORY in any manner. But Banaciski is a direct eyewitness to demolition charges and he apparently believes so. It would not surprise me in the least if Banaciski was a founding member of Firefighters for 9-11 Truth or some similar organization.


FIREFIGHTER RICHARD BANACISKI
Interview Date: December 6, 2001

We were there I don't know, maybe 10, 15
minutes and then I just remember there was just an
explosion
. It seemed like on television they blow up
these buildings
. It seemed like it was going all the
way around like a belt, all these explosions
.
Everybody just said run and we all turned around and we
ran into the parking garage because that's basically
where we were. Running forward would be running
towards it. Not thinking that this building is coming
down. We just thought there was going to be a big
explosion
, stuff was going to come down.


Let's try one more; firefighter Paul Beck, #18 down. Well golly gee; his entire first paragraph is redacted. What could be so important from a NYC fireman that would require censoring? Makes you wonder doesn't it? As you can see your 12000 pages does not support the 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY in any way. Many of them reported explosions audibly and visually. Many reported the fires easily controllable. Many expected to get all of the living trapped persons out of both towers successfully. None expected the towers to collapse from aircraft impacts nor jet fuel fires. None expected to be trapped in the towers while doing their duties. None expected to die or to be murdered by the 9-11 perps. None expected to see demolition explosions ringing the different floors.


FIREFIGHTER PAUL BECK
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 12 2001

1st paragraph redacted

Q: WHICH BRIDGE
A: BROOKLYN BRIDGE THINK WE WERE JUST PAST
THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE ON THE MANHATTAN SIDE WHEN THE
FIRST TOWER CAME DOWN AND OF COURSE OUR CONCERN THERE
WAS NOW WEVE GOT TO FIND ENGINE 205 AND WEVE GOT TO
FIND LADDER 118





[edit on 12/9/08 by SPreston]



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 01:36 PM
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posted by CameronFox

A rich vein of city records from Sept. 11, including more than 12,000 pages of oral histories rendered in the voices of 503 firefighters, paramedics, and emergency medical technicians, were made public on Aug. 12. The New York Times has published all of them.


12,000 pages Spreston... I suggest you grab a hot chocolate and a comfy chair. You have some reading to do.


I wonder if Cameron has read many of them, because I have, and many of them raise serious questions about the official explanation of events. Off the top of my head, one of the first NYPD officers in WTC1 said when he got there that the lobby windows had all been blown out (which we already knew), that people were laying on the ground still alive but with all their skin burned off, that the lower level (including basement) elevators had been blown out of their hinges but the elevators that serviced the upper levels were fine. Keep in mind only 2 elevators in the whole building went the whole way, and it's been proven that one of them, the main freight, didn't plummet as commonly suggested by the duhbunkers.

Aside from those testimonies you have Philip Morelli, William Rodriguez, Mike Pecoraro, and a handful of other WTC employees that also reported massive basement explosions that destroyed structure around the parking garage (these people will tell you themselves -- they weren't the only ones to experience it, but the only ones to talk to the media about it, and there is a difference). Police radio and transcripts from that morning reveal that police had reports of suspicious activity regarding a van with a mural of the Twin Towers and a plane on the side of it. Kind of like the dancing Israeli agents around a van who were taping the whole thing from a distance, eh? I remember hearing live media reports as it was happening (they still exist, I can link) that alluded to police finding a "suspicious device," and there was a suspicion at some point that someone had simultaneously bombed the basements again with another van/truck bomb.

Remember that as all of this was going on, FEMA, the OEM and Rudy Giuliani had officials in the bunker in WTC7 in radio contact with Chief Nigro and other officials the whole time, advising what should be done. That's the perfect opportunity to plant disinformation agents. Lie to the first responders about what's going on, confuse them more than they are already confused, without them even expecting it. These people acting out of WTC7 were also the first people to "know" these buildings were coming down. And let's not forget that they were there the night before, on September 10th, setting up a command post for a bio-terror exercise FEMA had scheduled for 9/12. Talk about convenient. Late to Katrina, early to 9/11.

[edit on 9-12-2008 by bsbray11]



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by SPreston
I am quite aware of the oral histories of NYC, but we are discussing the 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY in this thread and the oral histories in no way, shape, or form support the OFFICIAL STORY.


You see Preston, the firefighters are a HUGE part of the "official story," their statements were used by the "perps." ie: NIST, 911 Commission, etc.

Can you please go through the list of over 500 first responders I have provided, and tell me how many that you are "aware" of that support your fantasy of a controlled demolition.

Start with the ones you picked out; John Amato, Richard Banaciski, or Paul Beck. Ask them if they think the Towers were brought down via controlled demolition.



There are thousands of accounts contained within the oral histories and in other areas, which support demolition of the towers. I suggest you have never bothered to read nor study them.


You mean like these:

"Sounded like bombs" –Keith Murphy
"A huge explosion" –Gerard Gorman
"Sound of popping and exploding" –Alwish Monchery
"Explosions" –William Burns
"Kept hearing these large boom, boom" –Rosario Terranova
"Sounded like explosions." –Anthony Fitzgerald
"Like a shotgun going off" –Mark Meier
"Sounded like explosions" –Wilfred Barriere
"Sounded like bombs, like blockbusters" –John Murray
"You could hear explosions" –Richard Smiouskas
"Sounded like an M-80, that's how loud they were" –Tim Pearson
"Sounds like a shotgun" –Eric Ronningen
"Sounded like an explosion" –John Morabito
"There were lots of explosions" –Jeff Birnbaum
"Under the assumption that the sounds were secondary bombs." –Andrew Rodriguez
"Sounded like bombs. Like a bomb going off. I mean, it was huge." –FDNY Deputy Chief Peter Hayden

All of these witnesses unfortunately were talking about bodies when they hit the ground or other areas.


Did you know many of the firefighters that were in the North Tower were not aware of the South Tower collapse? Many were unaware of what was going on. Read the following statements from the firefighters and other first responders:

Bessler, Paul– Thought south tower collapse was secondary explosion or plane strike. Heard on radio, "Imminent collapse. This was a terrorist attack. Evacuate."

Borrillo, Nicholas– In north tower: south tower plane hit sounded like small explosion.

Brodbeck, Michael– In north tower, heard on radio that floors 68-70 of north tower collapsed: was actually south tower collapse.

Brosnan, Neil– Didn't know sequence of events until a week later.

Butler, John– Even after being on site for a while, didn't know plane had hit.

Camacho, Fernando– From north tower lobby, thought south tower collapse was small collapse. Saw north tower leaning before collapse.

Campagna, Frank– In north tower, didn't know plane had hit their building. From 30th floor, thought south tower collapse was explosion.

Cassano, Salvatore– Thought 2nd plane was secondary explosion from north tower.

Conzo, Joseph (E.M.S.)– Thought collapse of south tower was another plane strike.

Delgado, Manuel (E.M.S.)– Didn't know about 2nd plane until evening. Thought it was a secondary explosion.

Diaz, Jr., Roland (E.M.S.)– In #5, thought south tower collapse was airplane strike

Dixon, Brian– Heard second plane hit, thought was north tower explosion. Looked like bottom fire floor of south tower exploded out, then realized it was just a collapse. "Not that there was an explosion but that the windows blew out." Worried about secondary devices.

Dorritie, Robert– Thought south tower collapse was secondary device.

Drumm, John– In north tower 31st floor didn't know south tower came down until later in the day.

Fenyo, Christopher– Many people had felt that possibly explosives had taken out 2 World Trade Center. "That debate ended pretty quickly because tower 1 came down."

Fitzpatrick, Brian– Thought it was debris or an explosion or a secondary explosion or another plane. Warned that north tower leaning just before it fell.

Galasso, Joseph– Didn't know both buildings had come down. South tower, sounded like a waterfall.

Hansen, Eric (E.M.S.) – Didn't know 2nd plane hit, didn't know towers collapsed.

Ippolito, James– Thought south tower collapse was another plane. Second plane hit sound like train derailing.

King, Stephen. Battalion Chief – Didn't know north tower or south tower were hit by planes. In north tower, thinks south tower collapse is north tower coming down. "You can feel the air pressure building up. I mean, literally, it blows the windows in (the north tower from outside).

Kreuger, Conrad, PAPD P.O.– Didn't know until later that day that both towers were down.

Lakiotes, Art– Re: collapses: we all thought it was secondary explosives or more planes or whatever.

McCabe, Kevin– Thought south tower collapse was 3rd plane hit.

McGimpsey, Jason– south tower collapse sounded like a plane or bomb or something like that.

McNeur-Mccarthy, Linda (E.M.S.) – Thought south tower collapse was another plane hit.

Mecner, Edward– From north tower 23rd, sounded like a missile was about to come through the window. Didn't know south tower had fallen.

Mera, Wayne– Thinks they could lose top 15-20 floors. Second plane hit = massive explosion, thought it might be a bomb. Doesn't realize until later in the day that both towers totally collapsed.

Molina, Michael, PAPD Detective– Didn't realize until later that day that both towers were gone.

Murphy, James– Thought south tower collapse was 3rd plane hit.

Murray, Kevin– Thought south tower collapse was 3rd plane hit. Heard report of 65th floor collapse.

O'Flaherty, Brian– Thought north tower collapse was plane strike.

Olszewski, Janice (E.M.S.)– Didn't know south tower collapsed. Thought might be a bomb, another plane, etc.

Ondrovic, Patricia (E.M.S.) – Didn't know planes had hit the buildings. Tried to enter lobby of 6. Thought 6 blew up on her. Cars exploding. Coat caught fire. Thought she saw a plane explode over New Jersey. (FDNY transcripts and here)

Orlando, Thomas– In north tower, thought south tower collapse was missile attack.

Piambino, Thomas– In north tower: didn't know "explosion" was the south tower falling.

Puma, Frank (E.M.S.) – Thought first plane strike was a bomb.

Reilly, Gerard– Thought south tower collapse was explosion in Vista Hotel. Didn't know tower had collapsed.

Reynolds, William– Many thoughts of various possible threats. Thought WTC 2 was destroyed by a bomb.

Ryan, William– Was on-scene just after collapses but didn't realize until about 3:00 that both towers were down.

Smiley, Gary (E.M.S.)– FBI people saying there were bombs in different parks and just running from one area to the next.

Sweeney, Frank– Some think second plane was a bomb. Didn't know north tower damage was caused by a plane. "The rest of the day we spent running from bomb scares and gas leaks."

Trojanowski, Stanley– Thought south tower collapse was bomb going off because north tower blocked his view.

Walker, Dan – Thought south tower collapse was north tower elevators falling.

Wall, William– Heard sonic boom from fighter plane: thought it was bombs.

Walsh, William– Didn't know south tower fell. Rumors of federal buildings being hit.

Wernick, Michael– Thought south tower collapse was airplane strike.



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by CameronFox
 

Do you mind showing your sources, where you got all those names from thank you.



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by cashlink
 


The sources are listed on a previous post. Or, simply google each of the quotes and voila! you will see them.



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by bsbray11
I wonder if Cameron has read many of them, because I have, and many of them raise serious questions about the official explanation of events.


Oh, i assure I have.


Off the top of my head, one of the first NYPD officers in WTC1 said when he got there that the lobby windows had all been blown out (which we already knew), that people were laying on the ground still alive but with all their skin burned off,


Skin burned off. Can anyone tell me what would cause ones skin to burn off. Or, as others described as skin "hanging off."

Rodriguez describes Felipe David's injuries:

"He was burned terribly," said Rodriguez. "The skin was hanging off his hands and arms. His injuries couldn’t have come from the airplane above, but only from a massive explosion below."

www.arcticbeacon.com...

Harry Waizer on Larry King:


Harry Waizer: It wasn't burning. I got hit by a fireball that just -- if you can imagine a barbecue grill with too much gas, that just suddenly explodes, that's what I had. It just hit me in the face, then it was gone.

...I saw the look on many of those faces turn to sympathy or horror as they saw me. At one point I noticed a large flap of skin hanging off my arm. I did not look any further.

edition.cnn.com...


Even as people streamed down the stairs, the cracks were appearing in the walls as the building shuddered and cringed. Steam pipes burst, and at one point an elevator door burst open and a man fell out, half burned alive, his skin hanging off. People dragged him out of the elevator and helped get him out of the building to the doctors below

www.time.com...


Originally posted by bsbray11
....that the lower level (including basement) elevators had been blown out of their hinges but the elevators.......commonly suggested by the duhbunkers.


Darn it! I keep forgetting those NWO elevator technicians planting those bombs on the elevators. I wonder is BsBray has looked into the injuries & deaths by those on the elevators.



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by CameronFox
 



The sources are listed on a previous post. Or, simply google each of the quotes and voila! you will see them.



Ok, I will ask you again! Please show your sources to all those names that you posted obviously you didn’t have a problem doing a copy and past job. However if you refused to show your sources then your whole statement with all those names is only fabricated which I expected. You are in here to debate? Am I correct that is what you are in here for? You “MUST” show “your” sources when you are Debating.



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 03:58 PM
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posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by cashlink
However if you refused to show your sources then your whole statement with all those names is only fabricated which I expected.


Take them as fabricated then. I made them all up. I am an evil NWO agent.

I tell you what. Why don't you start with the 500+ first responders that I listed. Read the 12,000 + pages of statements from them.

hint: (maybe some of the quotes you want sourced are in there)

THEN tell me which ones believe that the towers were brought down with explosives. Keep in mind, these folks were there. Not at home watching Youtube videos.

Thanks




posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 04:29 PM
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posted by CameronFox
Darn it! I keep forgetting those NWO elevator technicians planting those bombs on the elevators. I wonder is BsBray has looked into the injuries & deaths by those on the elevators.


I have no idea what Cameron is talking about yet he acts like it's something I suggested myself. This is one reason he's on my ignore list, but not the best one.

Like I said, don't know where it came from, but I never suggested that.



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by CameronFox
 



Take them as fabricated then. I made them all up.


I will! So will everyone else. If you expect people to take you seriously then you need to show your sources, however, if you keep this up then no one will pay any attention to what you post, I mean they will not even read your post anymore.


I tell you what. Why don't you start with the 500+ first responders that I listed. Read the 12,000 + pages of statements from them.


No, you need to supply us with your sources.
Why is it so hard for you to do this?


hint: (maybe some of the quotes you want sourced are in there)


We are not playing a game in here! We are trying to have a Debate in here of why do you support the Official story. You have been ask repeatedly to produces your sources and you refuse to do so.



THEN tell me which ones believe that the towers were brought down with explosives. Keep in mind, these folks were there. Not at home watching Youtube videos.

Thanks




Do not waste your time asking me any questions when “you” refuse to answer yours!



posted on Dec, 10 2008 @ 06:19 AM
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Originally posted by cashlink
reply to post by CameronFox
 



Take them as fabricated then. I made them all up.


I will! So will everyone else.


No Cash, if you bothered to read my previous post, the sources were there.

I see what you are about. You ignore ANYTHING that goes against your fantasy of an inside job. This is the reason why you... and Spreston and anyone else in here can not show how many of the 500 plus first responders I listed, believe that the towers were brought down VIA a controlled demolition. Watch Spreston when asked that question...he will post one of his neat little Infowars or LooseChange bumper stickers.


If you expect people to take you seriously then you need to show your sources, however, if you keep this up then no one will pay any attention to what you post, I mean they will not even read your post anymore.


If you want to ignore the FACTS I present, that's your prerogative. It's what the vast majority of the truth movement does.



No, you need to supply us with your sources.
Why is it so hard for you to do this?



All 500+ interviews are all on PDF format. The sources are there. All taken from the New York Times.


We are not playing a game in here! We are trying to have a Debate in here of why do you support the Official story. You have been ask repeatedly to produces your sources and you refuse to do so.



Sources have been there sir, now it's time for you to start reading.



posted on Dec, 10 2008 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by CameronFox
 


No, ThroatYogart you are Wrong!



I see what you are about. You ignore ANYTHING that goes against your fantasy of an inside job.


Really! What am I about? I have no fantasy however, if I did it would be for the truth to come out, which “you” have failed to prove.



posted on Dec, 10 2008 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by cashlink
 


Did you read the statements from the first responders? (they are sourced)

Once you are done with that, please remember to list those that have come out and stated the towers were demolished VIA a controlled demolition.

Thank you-

Cam



posted on Dec, 10 2008 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by CameronFox
 


Ya right! You have “not” answered any of my questions, that I have asked you, good day to you.



posted on Dec, 10 2008 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by cashlink
 


I have sourced everything I posted. Is that what you're referring to?



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 11:22 AM
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I'm fairly new to all this 9/11 controversy. Have been always aware of it, but didn'y know the degree and depth of research.

The controlled demolition and missile to the Pentagon infromation is convincing in isolation, bu just falls apart when stacked against the overwhelming weight of evidence, testimony, pictures, and documeentations from reliable sources.

As someone pointed out, being there, seeing an airliner going into the Pentagon, and the same observation being corroborated by hundreds of others, beats Youtube video analysis.

I know it;s more complex than that, but a lot of it really does boil down to seeming inconsistencies in the reportage.

Similar conflicting testimony happens in court cases.

I think those who want to believe 9/11 was a US govt controlled operation will continue to dismiss what conflicts with their focus on the details they think proves their case.

So these arguments end up being circuitous.


Mike F



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 12:16 PM
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posted by mmiichael
I think those who want to believe 9/11 was a US govt controlled operation will continue to dismiss what conflicts with their focus on the details they think proves their case.


Duh!! That reasoning applies no matter which side you take.

The faithful defenders of the 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY close their eyes tight shut and pretend they do not see any of the hundreds and hundreds of contradictions and improbabilities and impossibilities and outright miraculous occurrences which keep popping up in the OFFICIAL STORY. They are just lying to themselves.

We 9-11 Truthers do not have an official story which we are forced to desperately cling to, no matter how nonsensical the contradictions. We do not have to defend an OFFICIAL STORY no matter how ludicrous it becomes. We do not desperately have to run and hide when another OFFICIAL STORY bit of nonsense gets outed to the world. We do not have to hide in shame when the Japanese Parliament even starts discussing the treachery of American leaders and their part in 9-11. We need only chip away at the endless holes in the 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY, as it slowly sinks into the quicksand which its foundations were built upon. If our current effort does not bear fruit; we just shift over to another hole in the OFFICIAL STORY, and start chipping away. We have an endless supply of holes it seems.

We do not have to defend a nonsensical script filled with actors with a long long long history of lying such as George Dubya Bush and Tricky Dick Cheney and Dummy Rumsfeld and Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and Turd Blossum Karl Rove and Tony Snow and Richard Armitage and Michael Ledeen and Douglas Feith and Gary Bauer and Bobby Eberle. Long term proven liars. What a listing of total scumbags. And those are only a few of the liars we have to contend with.




[edit on 12/11/08 by SPreston]



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by mmiichael
The controlled demolition and missile to the Pentagon infromation is convincing in isolation, bu just falls apart when stacked against the overwhelming weight of evidence, testimony, pictures, and documeentations from reliable sources.


Show me the overwhelming weight of evidence. I don't care about the Pentagon so much as the WTC. All they can do is put on the appearance of so many experts saying such and such, which is a facade and the reason I am asking for you to show me what's so overwhelming. Pressure from authorities is good reason for you not to think, and before you fall for it you should at least attempt to look at the same evidence that these "experts" would be looking at. What little of it is in public domain is not impressive. I'm an engineering student, which is why I'm not dazzled or impressed by these people, especially the federal goons. Griff is also a structural engineer, also not impressed with the official investigations. This stuff is not rocket science, and if you think you can't figure it out on your own then you're selling yourself short and you're worthy of the government that owns you.



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