It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

College May Become Unaffordable for Most in U.S.

page: 4
10
<< 1  2  3    5  6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 05:24 PM
link   
reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


seems like your on the ball about colleges, got a question for you bro...

Does a Degree matter or a license/Certification for you to do your job.

From what I've seen, Employers give jobs on personality and experience over a bachelors they know they have to give higher salary for.

I've beaten out pleanty of more qualified people for jobs. That includes Masters and Bachelors.

What are you thoughts???



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 05:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by burdman30ott6

Originally posted by Seekingmyself

a bachelors degree is becoming a high school diploma; soon you won't be able to find a job without it. I don't understand why the cost of tuition has risen so much.


It has become so expensive because they're trying to restore some balance. If a bachelor's degree has become a high school diploma, then that means with said bachelor's degree you should only be entitled to a comparable career and salary that the previous generations high school graduate recieved. Welcome to the career of ditch-digger, twenty-first century style, in other words. Like I said above, it used to be an honor and a rarity for a family member to get a college degree. We need to return to those days ASAP. Cheap higher education is one of the primary reasons inflation has outstripped the growth of personal income. Back in the day middle class kids could have a prayer to lift themselves out of middle class by getting the college education which made them a valuable commodity and provided them with a better salary. Unfortunately, once that degree is no longer an exception, but has become the rule amongst young people looking for employment, the employers have a larger crop to choose from and do not have to pay the better wages anymore to lure the once-rare college grad into their fold.


So it seems to be a very vicious cycle then, yes? I think part of it may be that each generation had more kids going off to college. Parents who have degrees are much more expectant that their children get an education. That being said, I feel that you are looked down upon if you do not attend college. I was a very rare person....my dad did not want me to go to college, he thought I should join the army instead. I think he forgot how sensitive and girly I am, haha. But it is EXPECTED of you to go to college these days...if you don't, you are a slacker, even if you work hard full-time and work your way up. I agree with you, it should be an honor to go to college, not a right.

With that said, something still needs to be done. Furthering of an education is a very desirable goal, in my opinion. I enjoy learning...but I don't enjoy paying for it. The way that our government lends us aid is all wrong. My dad is not supporting me at all, like I said, he did not want me to go. The FAFSA (Federal financial aid) is all backwards. The amount of aid you receive is only based on your parents' income. The only way it is not based on your parents' income is if you are 24, married, or have a baby. I know a lot of people who are going to school for almost free because they have a kid....which is ridiculous, why are we rewarding those who have children from a one night stand or when they are 16? The other issue I have is that you could get kicked out by your parents when you are 18, and paying all of your own bills and rent, etc. Your income is STILL based on your parents' income, and if they make 75k a year, you are out of luck and can't strive to further your education until you meet one of the qualifications to be a dependent student. That has always bothered me.



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 05:28 PM
link   
University education is largely a joke now as far as graduates. I am completing my Ph.D. and the quality of students is quite low at many institutions because they mostly have an entitlement attitude and think that the State/Nation owes them an education. But I would have to say that I agree to an extent.

My great-grandparents emigrated to this nation, busted their butts, as did their children, their children's children... and now I have the opportunity to get the education that they never did. So I did, loans and all. These systems were set up on taxpayer dollars that three generations worked to provide. They did it for *me* and I owe it to *them* to take advantage of it.

Do I think education is a right? No.
Do I think education should be free? No.

But now the entire system is being mostly dominated by liberals and socialist "scholars" who want to further their causes and brainwash the masses. This starts in kindergarten (and even pre-K with the incoming administration) and goes all the way through the highest levels. And at the highest levels, it is in large part educating foreigners and leaving our citizens behind.

The answer is to remove Federal and state control. They break everything they touch, or worse... it is turned into a tool for those in power to undermine the things that this nation was founded upon.



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 05:29 PM
link   
I personally think we should abolish private colleges/universities. State systems are much much cheaper and your getting the same education.

We have some excellent schools in the SUNY and CUNY systems (Stony Brook and City College of NY for example) and many of the SUNY community colleges are among the top community colleges in the nation.

I attend a SUNY community college and by no means am I getting a bad education, if anything I do more work then many of my friends that attend private colleges/universities. My particular community college is one of the top in the nation.



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 05:37 PM
link   
reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


The classes you took in your professional education exposed you to engineering programs and opportunities that most engineers don't know about. The term would be "well rounded education" and now you know of some of the engineering world you really do not want to be involved with.

But what's to say 5 years from now you may want to be an engineer supervisor working on a (place project here) but the requirement of theoretical hydrology was a requirement. Same applies for math and software development for control systems that are only in conceptual stages. A very strong math background is needed. You took classes that you don't need, now, but you are just starting out and 5 to 10 years from now, who knows what engineering skills you will be using.

Congrats, and you got the world by the tail but don't even know it.



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 06:15 PM
link   
reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


First off all excellent post .

Don't the people wanting to study more technical trades go to technical schools that have differnt names depending on your location or in the US can a one become say a qualified doctor without going to university ?

I do not wish to devalue any hard work that you put into your degree . Now that I have got that out of the way .

A lot depends on the curriculum that an education provider is offering it makes sense that engineering you involve a lot of depth in study . In other areas of study it is possible depending on the training provider that you can study for less time and get the same qualification . This is what I found with IT in Chirstchurch . Although in the end I wasted my time because experience won out over my qualifications and plans for future study every time .

Now it makes sense that engineering and medicine would have a lot of in depth study in the class room as well as learning of a practical nature . To make my point about there being a lack of " on the job " training I will use the example of nursing . Thirty odd years ago before I was around members of my family underwent successfully I might add training to become Nurses. Back then before some undertook nursing training you took an exam to see if you had a personality that is suited to the job . If you failed the initial test no real harm was done you simply went and made another career choice . Today nursing students don't sit such an exam and when they first hit the wards they don't have a clue what to do and they may not even be suitable for nursing in the first place .

My view is that higher education should be affordable to those who really want it . Rather then spending more money the likes of arts degree should be cut from government funding allowing for the likes of engineering degrees to become more affordable . Sure apprenticeships have been greatly devalued locally . Unless someone is sure that they want a to go to university they should look at doing an apprenticeship.

The problem of flooding the market with graduates is N/A in NZ due to skills shortages .



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 06:44 PM
link   
I just want to link this thread into the discussion, because I think it's interesting that they're both getting play on the same day.

The thread I linked is about a study that demonstrated a difference in the way 9 and 10 year-olds brains react to stimuli based on socieconomic status.

Before you get all upset, that's a gross oversimplification and no opinion should be based on it. Read the thread if you're interested.


What I find really interesting is that both that thread and this speak so directly to the problem of social mobility and the myth we have that everyone has an equal opportunity to succeed.



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 06:48 PM
link   
reply to post by ChrisF231
 
Certainly state run systems are cheaper. But they are also held captive to the whims of the state.

State run systems = sheeple factories IMO.



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 08:13 PM
link   

Originally posted by warrenb
education needs to be free for people of all ages

if that ever happens; we will see humanity taking a step in the right direction


I was about to post this exact phrase.


Paying for education is as greedy,selfish and stupid as it gets.
The tech school I went too a few years ago is $800 a quarter (4 months) and they do absolutly nothing other than give you a semi quiet place to study.



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 09:19 PM
link   
There's a problem, yes. The education is an investment -- human capital investment -- where the profits of education, the return on investment, allow you to pay back what you need to borrow to get it. Too many people are attending college now. Something around 30% of students take more than their four years to graduate, and a huge percentage don't graduate at all. And then a large percentage of those with college degrees don't even get a job in the field in which they were educated! The emphasis on "degrees" is ridiculous.


Now, this caught my eye:


Originally posted by ChrisF231
We have some excellent schools in the SUNY and CUNY systems (Stony Brook and City College of NY for example) and many of the SUNY community colleges are among the top community colleges in the nation.

I'm going to Stony Brook right now.



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 09:31 PM
link   
reply to post by TheWayISeeIt
 


The higher "education" system is nothing more than another HUGE debt generating scheme. And under it's current model it will fail along with every other part of the American Empire. Because the entire thing is one giant debt generating cluster-#, and these things tend to come to a halt in rather devastating ways.

It runs entirely on loan structures and Federal/State funding which is also borrowed money. I guess socialism is only evil when it benefits the middle-class. This is going to do 2 things. Crush students under debt to pay for inadequate schooling, and phase out an entire generation of minds that will further turn this country into a 3rd world nation where the only power and prosperity lies in the military and government.

[edit on 3-12-2008 by projectvxn]



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 10:12 PM
link   
I am currently attending a Junior College. I am one of the lucky few that has a company footing a large percentage of the bill. This makes is more affordable on me, just like so many that graduate with good grades get companies that reimburse them to pay off loans.

I have to say from first hand experience that there are some kids that do not belong in college until they mature a bit. Some of them are there just for the sake of being there. They end up auditing or dropping the class at the last minute, making the money and time spent worthless.

As far as tuitions going up, there is a reason for that as well. Do you know how much some of the computer software costs that these courses are using? You can teach a modern day class with out dated software. You cant run new software on outdated computers. This costs tons of money. Teachers make pretty darn good salaries as well. You cant ask a master's degree holder to teach for $60k a year. They would laugh at you. Forget asking a PhD unless you have a lot of cash to throw at them. Most campuses now have their own private law enforcement. These guys are just like cops, only the salary is better.

All of this is hardly offset with government grant money, which a lot of Junior and Senior colleges get. So, as the costs go up, so do the tuitions.

I would love to see free secondary education up to at least Graduate level. I know that it will not happen anytime soon. It would take a corporate tax rate of about 70% and an income tax rate of 50% just to pull it off. Then the people who dont choose college are the ones crying because they are funding all the education for nothing.

Its a sharp and deadly sword. For now, I cut out my nightlife and apply that money to my books.

Oh, did I forget to mention that apart from being a full time student, I also work full time as well? Sleep during the week is limited to around 4 hours a night and weekends are nothing but study and homework. Dont tell me about how hard people have it. I just have resolve to sacrifice for however many years it takes to see myself with a career boosting degree along with all of the experience I am gaining on the way.



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 11:32 PM
link   
It's the law of supply and demand. Everyone is demanding access to college for their children, since in times past it was a gateway to the middle class and beyond. Unfortunately college is a poor choice for most of the uneducated masses of America. Middle school and high school are nothing but baby sitting centers and breeding grounds for world wide socialism.

Except for the hard sciences college is completely irrelevant and a waste of money. You get a much better return by going to trade school and learning how to perform a service, hopefully one that can not be easily exported to China. Electricians and plumbers make more than most college graduates.

As for the hard sciences, most Americans are too dumb to contribute anything here any more. For the ones that can make the grade, it should be completely subsidized, since these are critical skills. China is producing a million engineering grad.s every year. America, by contrast, is rapidly descending into third world status. 70% of people in grad. school in engineering and science are from overseas. Again Americans are more concerned about American idol, or sports to care about learning anything.



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 11:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by TheWayISeeIt
 


The higher "education" system is nothing more than another HUGE debt generating scheme. And under it's current model it will fail along with every other part of the American Empire. Because the entire thing is one giant debt generating cluster-#, and these things tend to come to a halt in rather devastating ways.

It runs entirely on loan structures and Federal/State funding which is also borrowed money. I guess socialism is only evil when it benefits the middle-class. This is going to do 2 things. Crush students under debt to pay for inadequate schooling, and phase out an entire generation of minds that will further turn this country into a 3rd world nation where the only power and prosperity lies in the military and government.

[edit on 3-12-2008 by projectvxn]



And from this corner you hear a non-denominational, "Amen!!"



posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 01:20 AM
link   

Originally posted by projectvxn
The higher "education" system is nothing more than another HUGE debt generating scheme. And under it's current model it will fail along with every other part of the American Empire. Because the entire thing is one giant debt generating cluster-#, and these things tend to come to a halt in rather devastating ways.


I really don't agree with you, maybe because of SevenThunders' "hard sciences" exception. I'm going for biomedical engineering, and the resources and educational requirements really couldn't be duplicated otherwise. (I mention my major because it's pretty unique in the amount of inter-disciplinary sciences you have to learn an apply) I don't love the way some things are structured, but aside from changing the way some courses are taught, I'm not sure how else I would do it.

Now, for the liberal arts majors...that may be another story. I don't know.



posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 01:27 AM
link   
reply to post by Johnmike
 


When education begins to suffer a massive shortage in funding everything you do while attending school will be placed further, and further out of your reach...Unless you're in a position where you can wait out the storm, if so, I'm happy for you and I hope your future is bright. But for many, many more this will not be the case. I posit only that an institution that function solely on credit and borrowed money will indeed collapse.



posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 01:35 AM
link   
reply to post by SevenThunders
 


I posted on this matter not that long ago. Education in this country is just another form of control. But I don't know that it is creating socialists. I think it's only creating a grunt class because these kids these days are cheating their way through school and they don't know a bloody thing. This pool of inefficient brain power will also add to a shortfall in revenue as the rate of those who make it to a community college, let alone a university, will drop SHARPLY.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 01:48 AM
link   

Originally posted by wheresthetruth
I have to say from first hand experience that there are some kids that do not belong in college until they mature a bit. Some of them are there just for the sake of being there. They end up auditing or dropping the class at the last minute, making the money and time spent worthless.


Universities seem to have gone downhill from being centres of academic excellence to being highstreet retail-education...as long as you can pay the fees you too can have a degree in whatever subject we made up (BA in Cats anyone?)

The Batchelors degree is being devalued to the point that the Masters is now the new benchmark

The running joke holds true:

Q: What do you say when you meet a Media Studies graduate?
A: Big Mac and Fries please



posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 02:32 AM
link   
What a sad sorry state of affairs when we put an unobtainable price on educating the people on this planet.
This merely keeps humanity down, and keeps them as good slaves, for the ones at the top.
In reality, you can educate yourself.
Although you don't have a piece of paper, you can still be up to standard with those who do.
But it is still sad that we don't make education in every form free for all people on this planet.
Imagine how far we would come in only a short time.
There may be some little kid in Africa, who if given the right knowledge could cure cancer.
Could be some lady in South America, who will never see a College or University, who could cure diabetes.
But of course they don't want a cure for cancer or diabetes, because cancer treatment makes there rich life good while people die unnecessarily.
Evil selfish ego's bring this planet down.



posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 04:07 AM
link   
The big joke about these high education costs is you have institutions like Harvard that have 36 Billion! in endowments (Oops 28 Billion... Economy is hitting everyone hard, they recently lost 8 Billion over last year). In fact over 70 Colleges have over 1 billion in endowments. While they still charge exorbitant tuition fees and get tax free status from the government.

Whats really needed is the U.S. education system (K - 12) needs to be elevated to where you have college level math, science, and English before you go onto higher education which then would be specific to your career. Because a large majority of college is crap classes that don't pertain to the actual technical degree just to squeeze more money out of the student.

This should not cost any more since we already pay about 5-10x more then anyone else in developed world for public education and get worse results. It just needs to be more efficient.




top topics



 
10
<< 1  2  3    5  6 >>

log in

join