California State may be bankrupt

State likely will not be able to issue new bonds until 2009 because of market conditions and budget uncertainties.

"Under the present circumstances, it appears to our office unlikely that California will be able to enter the market to sell general obligation bonds until after the first of the year," said Treasurer Lockyer. "Current financial market conditions are not favorable, and with our state budget assumptions in flux during the Legislature’s special session, securities disclosure requirements would make it difficult or impossible to access the credit market. Investors will want to see how the state addresses the budget imbalance before lending to us at reasonable rates."

www.treasurer.ca.gov...


I was talkin to my old man yesterday about it. The STATE is appealing to other states and the Fed gov't. more taxes? what the hell?

This mean MORE TAXING RIGHT OUT OF YOUR PAYCHECK. Im not too happy bout it. we've officially spent way too much and its done with. Conisder whats going on people.

If anyone is in Boston area, or willing to go there. Therse the boston tea party even '08. I I think people may be delaring independence from the Fed gov.

just some thoughts before comupter class...

peace

It is called incompetency. Governments loves spending more than it takes in. In addition they have the tendecy of forecasting or estimating extra revenue in their budgets that may never materialize. A good example is lottery money.

Well its a fine example of the entire economic system and how it was set up from day one...to purposely cause debt and to purposely cause loans and default of loans.

Maybe Ca should get a bailout.


Cheers!!!!

Wait a second - what happened?

I thought Arnold ran on the recall election against Gray Davis on the platform that Davis was incompetent and that Arnold could turn things around for the state? I thought this guy was supposed to turn California around?

Perhaps accomplishing things in government are tougher on the inside than they appeared on the outside?

The problem with California from a Native Californian is that we are greedy selfcentered people that belong to the me generation if it isnt about us we could careless about anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by sos37


Arnold cast aside any shred of fiscal conservatism he had so he could be popular in California politics. You cant make it as a politician in CA, CT, NY, MA or NJ unless you're hellbent on bankrupting the state with absurd practices.

One of the guys that used to work here (where I work, company name withheld) had moved from California. He lived in the Bay Area. He said things had gotten so ridiculous in just about every aspect of life there that they had to move elsewhere.

He said the thing that prompted him to move was what happened with the Bay Area public schools: they had eliminated art classes, band, drama, most sports and were about to get rid of the football programs, and all other extra curricular activities - all to save money. The only things left were English, science, government, history, math and a few other core classes. When they started talking about removing science classes from the curriculum (based on someone's logic that science wasn't a mainstream industry in America anymore), that's when he decided enough was enough for his family and they had to move elsewhere.

I kind of feel sorry for people in California, but only those who are stuck there. Those who have the means to leave a bad situation don't get my sympathy.

Originally posted by sos37
When they started talking about removing science classes from the curriculum (based on someone's logic that science wasn't a mainstream industry in America anymore),

That is amazing.

What do you do for a living? I do science.
Careful, all the science plants are being shipped overseas.
Soon America wont have any of its own science at all.

Science isnt a mainstream industry? What does that even mean?

Pelosi and the Obama are gonna bailout CA--for sure.

Maybe we should give CA to la Raza. This makes being prejudiced against CA even easier. Maybe those predicted earthquakes are signally California uberalis.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by sos37
When they started talking about removing science classes from the curriculum (based on someone's logic that science wasn't a mainstream industry in America anymore),

That is amazing.

What do you do for a living? I do science.

Careful, all the science plants are being shipped overseas.
Soon America wont have any of its own science at all.

Science isnt a mainstream industry? What does that even mean?

Well, the guy isn't around for me to ask anymore as he moved on to another company, and when he was here it was back in 2004. But from what I gathered it meant that someone in the school's administration believed that another good way to cut spending was to start cutting science programs because of data suggesting that fewer college graduates were walking out of universities and colleges with degrees in science-related fields (engineering, biology, chemistry, physics, computer science, etc).

I do know that there is some truth to that so-called data as Bill Gates, former lead architect for Microsoft, had petitioned Congress to raise or eliminate the cap on H1-B Visas. His argument was there wasn't a sufficient pool of qualified graduates with science-related degrees in the U.S. to hire from.

Originally posted by sos37
One of the guys that used to work here (where I work, company name withheld) had moved from California. He lived in the Bay Area. He said things had gotten so ridiculous in just about every aspect of life there that they had to move elsewhere.

That's exactly why we left the Bay Area. Before leaving, I predicted to friends and acquaintances that what we see would happen.

But I'm placing the "blame" a little differently.

I see a lot of "white collar", higher income people - net payers of taxes - leaving the state as I did, while the people still moving into CA are mostly net users of tax money - such as illegal immigrants.

I shouldn't have to say "you do the math" for people to figure out the fiscal impact of what I'm saying - the demands for funding will increase for infrastructure and welfare, etc. while the sources of revenue decrease.

That will equal a bankrupt state.

reply to post by centurion1211


You hit it right on the head. People are getting fed up with CA. Arnold for the sake of being popular drank the Kool Aid and bought into the big government agenda. You summed it up. Who would want to live in CA anyways. You have high taxes and get taxed on everything, you have fires, you have earthquakes, you have high crime, high cost of living, man I could go all day the fact is get the hell out of California. There is nothing there.

Originally posted by centurion1211
I see a lot of "white collar", higher income people - net payers of taxes - leaving the state as I did, while the people still moving into CA are mostly net users of tax money - such as illegal immigrants.

You're sooo right about that one. I grew up in SoCal and I personally observed the huge influx of illegals and the rise in taxes in a relatively short amount of time.

When taxes get too high, the ones who pay the most end up looking for greener pastures. It's a welfare state now.

[edit on 12/3/2008 by Kruel]

reply to post by sos37


Well you see.. you cannot increase spending on the vast array of inferastructure, social programs, and millions of illegal aliens without raising TAXES.

I am honestly happy to see California in this situation. Good picture of things to come.

I live in California and try to follow the news the best I can.

The problems with California are this:

They tax the hell out of businesses. Why would any business move to Cali if they will forfeit a chunk of their earnings second only to the great state of New York? They won't. We lose jobs because of this and the state gov makes up for this by raising taxes.

The state congress is impotent. It is locked up due to Dems vs. Repubs. Neither will budge. Dems want to raise taxes, Pubs want to cut spending and nobody is giving an inch.

Geographically by county, the vast majority of the state is red. The blue counties are around S.F, L.A., and Sacramento. With such high population densities, they shove the rest of the state around just because they can. Most of the state supports these few areas.

Environmentalists. Preserving what we have and having clean air and water are great but environmentalists clog the system with lawsuits so that nothing can get done.

Water. The central valley is dying because water is being restricted to save a fish. (The delta smelt) Farmers are plowing crops and getting out of the area. This makes the price of food climb because we now have to import.

These are just a few issues. The state is bankrupt. No amount of bailout money will cure the infection, just delay the collapse.

Oh Waaa, Waaaa, Waaa!

Would all of you whiners who think California is tax-crazy Please! Just leave the State Already!


We don't want you!

We don't need you!

We would do better without you!


So please just get the "heck" out of here, and don't let the Golden Gate hit you in the collective arse as you go!



I'd rather have 10 "illegals" for every one of you whiners. They at least give a solid days' work for the meager wages they're paid!


And They Pay Their Taxes On Time!

(They are too afraid of being deported to not too.)



High taxes?

Please!


The maximum Personal Income Tax rate (excluding the Alternative minimum Tax for high income-earners) is 9.3%.

Under Proposition 13, we haven't had a property tax rate increase in years.


The Corporation income tax rate is just 8.4% for a regular "C" corporation; it's only 1.5% for a sub-chapter "S" corporation.



But then, I guess even that is too much for the greedy to stomach. No, you'd rather keep all that money for yourselves, enjoying the infrastructure provided by the State, and largely built for you by folks making Less than their industry peers, while you whine about how put-upon you are.


Sheesh!


Just.



LEAVE!

reply to post by Bhadhidar


You mean...

And They Pay Their Taxes On Time!

As in collect their refund right?

reply to post by Rockpuck


Generally, No.

Most illegals make too little to have much withheld from their paychecks, so there is very little to refund once the tax is paid.

Very often, they will move frequently and have no permanent bank account so that even when a refund is owed, it is often returned to the State as "Undeliverable" or unclaimed.

Bear in mind as well, that the State does not offer Earned Income Credit like the Federal government does; so low income wage earners get no "freebies" from the State.


In fact, the largest offenders, in my experience, with regard to "tax cheating" are the corporations; especially the small corporations.


These are a bunch of folks who, IMO shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a corporate entity: They haven't a clue as to what it takes to run a corporation legally. Most would have been better off it they had just remained the "Mom and Pop" sole proprietorships they began as.


Nine times out of ten, some lawyer or CPA has scared them out of an exhorbitant "set-up" fee, and into a corporation...into hot water way over their heads!


Then, out of ignorance, embarassment, and fear, they just walk away from the corporation; leaving all the legal responsibilities to fester and grow until they get a call from a collector.


And then they whine: "But I didn't know!" "Nobody told me I had to..!" "The effing government is just out to screw the 'little guy"!



If I had a nickle for every time I heard one of these laments, I'd be in a MUCH higher tax bracket...And Loving It!

[edit on 3-12-2008 by Bhadhidar]

Most illegals make too little to have much withheld from their paychecks, so there is very little to refund once the tax is paid.

Child Refund Tax Credit (Average poor family is roughly $2,000)

Income Tax Refund, depending on Dependents 80-100% refund, on top of Child Credit.

State Income Tax Refund, again dependents counted.

Mexicans I used to work with got somewhere around $2,500 back ever year. While I paid into the system. Go figure.

Very often, they will move frequently and have no permanent bank account so that even when a refund is owed, it is often returned to the State as "Undeliverable" or unclaimed.

False, you do not need a bank account to cash an IRS Refund check.

In fact, the largest offenders, in my experience, with regard to "tax cheating" are the corporations; especially the small corporations.

Why would you cheat if the Gov already give you more then you paid?

Point is, California needs to increase their Property taxes, income taxes, institute a VAT tax or something.. If you want to prop up Mexico, you should pay for it. Not the other 49 states.

Mkay, as a native Californian and libertarian, I concede a few points that have been made here. But so far, the majority of you "conservatives" are generalists who are talking out their asses.

Yes, California is in bad shape, but it's not the leech welfare state so many of you who have never been here assume it to be.

If you want to prop up Mexico, you should pay for it. Not the other 49 states.

California's per capital federal tax burden is roughly 120% the national average. Size considered, the average for fed. spending is only 88%. You do the math. Also, California ranks 49th of all US states in pork bills, federally funded programs, etc by CAGW.

By comparison, the closest state in terms of size and population, "conservative" Texas:

-Ranks dead last in capita tax burden
-Texas is #2 in per capita fed spending
-Texas is #40 in pork spending, which has fallen 10 places from just 2 years ago

Considering our population makes up 63% of the entire west coast, I'd say that this isn't bad at all (huge understatement). Our agricultural industry is still by far our largest industry, and we're also ranked #1 by EERE for production of non-renewable energy.

Also, as pointed out above, most of California's coastal/urban centers are liberal, including San Francisco, San Diego, and Los Angeles. The rest of the state is decidedly conservative, as you can see from Prop 8's massive defeat.

Also, I know I will be painted an Arnold sympathist for this, but our state's constitution is as much to blame for this as the governor's office is. It requires a 2/3 majority vote in both houses to pass a budget. Arnold is still a firm critic of the various unions and entrenched special interests that keep the state gerrymandered, and even though he's "environmentally progressive", he's still more fiscally conservative than a lot of other governors.

California has submitted a final operating budget late for the last 22 years, so this is hardly unique. And certain props have limited the extent of taxation, like Howard Jarvis' Prop 13, thereby further crippling the expansion of runaway debt.

Since you brought it up, I am very partial to a secessionist movement here. Why not? If welfare wastrel Alaska can have one, why can't we? Seems soon we may actually get one off the ground. Maybe when we're gone you will find out exactly who was holding who on their shoulders, while we get our affairs together for self-reliance.

California shrugged...

[edit on 4-12-2008 by SpencerJ]