It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Are Atheists Morally Superior To Theists?

page: 7
3
<< 4  5  6    8  9  10 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 10 2009 @ 01:43 AM
link   
News Alert..News Alert...
Those leaders posing as Christians are worshiping LUCIFER...watch "Dark Secrets of the Bohemian Grove" How much proof do you need..
Stop!! referring to evil psychopaths and pedophiles dressed up as priests as a excuse to bash real Christians.
80% of those on the world stage are hiding behind Christianity...are serving their master Lucifer..So all their heinous crimes are in the name of Lucifer NOT CHRIST! SO get off it!
I got news for you if "world Powers are worshiping Lucifer" you better wake up! Cause guess what???? Then Christ exists!
Truth is stranger then fiction!

[edit on 10-5-2009 by Wideawake08]

[edit on 10-5-2009 by Wideawake08]



posted on May, 10 2009 @ 03:16 AM
link   

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
The only thing I have against the no-God hypothesis, is that it does not make rational sense and is not logical.


Like I asked you before...

What exactly makes finite (first cause A.K.A. God or Big Bang or whatever) causality chain more logical (plausible) then infinite causality chain (no first cause) which suggests infinitely large and old universe ?


On morality...

Quote from K-PAX (favorite movie of mine):


Prot: Every being in the universe knows right from wrong, Mark.



posted on May, 10 2009 @ 04:49 AM
link   
[edit on 10-5-2009 by Welfhard]



posted on May, 10 2009 @ 08:41 AM
link   

Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II
I consider anyone who groups all people by single categories as not morally deficient, but more mentally deficient. This condition shows a real lack of understanding as to how complex a real person's beliefs and morality is, and how it shapes their personality.


Correct in part, in many cases the moral deficiency comes from a mental deficiency. Question is who is making the prejudice assumptions? For someone to assume that ALL theists are one way and ALL atheists are another... is obviously flawed... there are many variations/exceptions in circumstances/situation to be aware of if one is going to be accurate on an individual basis. Here i have proposed an inquiry into whether or not as an average/whole is one group of people generally more moral then another.

I think the general consensus among theists is that they are morally superior to atheists, but after closer examination of theists' historical record and current actions, one is left seriously questioning this claim.

For instance, where would the following group, Christians United For Israel, be placed on a secular scale of morality in relationship to an average atheist?


(click to open player in new window)


[edit on 10-5-2009 by The All Seeing I]



posted on May, 10 2009 @ 01:39 PM
link   
reply to post by 5thElement
 


Setting aside the first cause argument, I think a case can be made that the quantum realm of electrons and photons is mindlike and involves an infinite and instantaneous information processing and sharing capability, and if infinite such a "mind" would have plenty of time to become self aware. Also, the holographic model of an implicate/explicate order has revealed that things we may consider to be miraculous are not entirely out of bounds and are grounded in belief, meaning and purpose, and with that model, the human being becomes a phenomenon capable of reflecting an image of the whole, lending credibility to the Christian view of Jesus Christ as son of God.

And what's wrong with the God concept anyway, unless one's view is simply born of contempt towards religion, it's misinterpretations, distortions and feuds.

I think that we're getting ready to understand the deep meaning behind some of these very old ways of looking at reality.

And hey, there is always something to believe in. Me I choose to believe in God as the center and source of all life, love, light, and a God who even went so far as to make his love and will known to the human being, but who sadly, has been misunderstood.

I think the athiest has a very large blind spot regarding the possibility of an all powerful, all knowing and all loving God who is alive and self aware. That said, God is something that cannot be fully understood, only lived and experienced by having faith and allowing God to live through us in spirit.

The athiest must really be a materialist and believe that mind is restricted to the grey matter in one's skull.

And if the universe is causeless, then we are into an eternal recurrence, as described at the end of the movie K-Pax, the implications of which are no less Godly, but I'll digress..

Also, Christianity isn't really about morality, but about accepting something, the love of God, which transcends morality and right and wrong, inviting the believer into a participative co-creation which can only function in the path of love and righteousness. In that sense, amoral Christians are people who lack faith and understanding, and who do not do the work of the Christian, which is not to try to be good, but to believe and recieve, out of which all good flows naturally. It is supposed to be about restoring us to our natural state as beloved children of a loving God.

[edit on 10-5-2009 by OmegaPoint]



posted on May, 10 2009 @ 09:42 PM
link   

Originally posted by The All Seeing I
Religion gives many people reason to hate homosexuals,


Are you suggesting there are no Homosexual hating atheists and that religious people can not love homosexuals just like anyone else?



supporting harmful abstinence-only sex education,


Wow, hard to follow this one. In today’s world no sex is the safest, and you being the logical one should understand that. Supporting abstinence is a choice just like anything else. Most of the "straight edge" crowd I know are atheists, so I don’t think this is all religion…



to deny oneself a life-saving blood transfusion if the need arose,


Very few do this, so are you suggesting this is mainstream in religion?



to believe that women are a “weaker vessel” and are incapable of leading/guiding/instructing a male


India very religious with female leaders, Russia/china not religious and none, Pakistan, Philippines and many other countries are religious and have female leaders...

Are you confusing culture and religion?



or to encourage a lack of concern/responsibility for the planet due to a belief of a fast-approaching armageddon where/when God will come to clean house.


Naw this is your idea alone...enjoy it.



When you just lay out some of the basic facts... it's not hard to see the conspiracy/hypocrisy in religion.


The fact is humans are not nice and are predators by nature. Every wrong event you label with religion as the motivator ends up not being nearly as bad as the non-religious like events. At least with religion, no matter how humans twist it, there is a bed rock of morality that the compass comes back to in time. When we have seen events that lacked religion there is no moral compass and we see the true evil of man in a extreme way.



[edit on 10-5-2009 by Xtrozero]



posted on May, 10 2009 @ 10:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by asmeone2
reply to post by The All Seeing I
 


It doesn't matter what a person beleives, human nature always shines through, and usually for the worse.

That's why you have genocide perpetuated by virually any given group through history. Beleiver and athiest alike, sometimes factions of christians versus themselves, God and morals always go out the window when the right buttons are pushed.



I would agree.. Most christians may put on a facade, but some believe the holy spirit fills you doesn't make them perfect. It doesn't change them even, they just.. believe something, and use it to attribute life.



posted on May, 10 2009 @ 11:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
I think the athiest has a very large blind spot regarding the possibility of an all powerful, all knowing and all loving God who is alive and self aware.


Lol, I really would not stretch it that far and call it a blind spot ...

The usual claim of those who are theists that Atheists refuse to "see" God or "reject" his existance is shallow and flawed.

True Atheists will never reject possibility of the existance of the deity...

However, since they see it as status quo (equally possible and impossible) it renders the subject as less important to their daily lives



Originally posted by OmegaPoint
That said, God is something that cannot be fully understood...


Many, many things cannot be fully understood, some we cannot understand at all...

What makes God different and "special" in this respect ?


Originally posted by OmegaPoint
...and allowing God to live through us in spirit.


For what purpose ?

Are you claiming that one cannot stop the world without faith ?

Are you claiming that moment of total awareness cannot be achieved without God ?

And last...

Are you claiming that if you take a path with the heart that you see where it ends ?


[edit on 10-5-2009 by 5thElement]



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 12:56 AM
link   
I guess all I'm saying is why exclude God? Have you heard the saying that the whole is greater than the sum of all the parts? Thus, in my view, God is the originator, and the whole, the alpha and omega of existence itself. Why would I deny such a being his rightful place, and to who or what would I be grateful, for my existence and all that I recieve?
I love God. God is great.

The atheist is entitled to their point of view (or lack thereof) certainly, but why they need to mock this God (ie: your signature) I do not understand.

If I was an atheist I couldn't care less what the believers think.

P.S. I've often thought of Jesus Christ as the missing link and the "5th element".

[edit on 11-5-2009 by OmegaPoint]



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 02:33 AM
link   

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
I guess all I'm saying is why exclude God?


Why not ?

Free thought is something you cannot put cap on ... or can you (and why would you) ?


Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Have you heard the saying that the whole is greater than the sum of all the parts?


Sure. Like most Americans, I own a car


Simple, universal and obvious principle which fails to provoke serious emotional response followed by favoring God V.S. No God line of thought



Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Why would I deny such a being his rightful place, and to who or what would I be grateful, for my existence and all that I receive ?


What rightful place that would be ?

Where the need to be grateful to God comes from ?


Originally posted by OmegaPoint
The atheist is entitled to their point of view (or lack thereof) certainly, but why they need to mock this God (ie: your signature) I do not understand.


My signature symbolizes a very simple truth ...


Originally posted by OmegaPoint
P.S. I've often thought of Jesus Christ as the missing link and the "5th element".


The main purpose of the 5th Element (me, lol) is to protect life



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 08:39 AM
link   

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by The All Seeing I
Religion gives many people reason to hate homosexuals,

Are you suggesting there are no Homosexual hating atheists and that religious people can not love homosexuals just like anyone else?

Atheists who to hate homosexuals, must have been brought up in a homophobic environment and/or been sexually assaulted/molested by someone who is gay... vs the church telling you to hate gays because god hates gays. Are you attempting to deny that this is true by deflecting/detouring from the fact?







[edit on 11-5-2009 by The All Seeing I]



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 09:19 AM
link   
IMHO Nobody is morally superior to anybody, nobody is superior to anybody, except the divine being superior to humankind. This line of thinking on the part of religious leaders, government officials, even corporations, is the downfall of mankind. Anybody who feels superior in any way, are masters of oppression and destruction. This is why we are failing as a society!



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 09:21 AM
link   
reply to post by The All Seeing I
 


Actually yes, I believe in God, but I have to give the morals to the Atheists here. And heres why:

Atheists do not believe that their is life after death, so they only have this one life to live. Many Atheists will not become Alcoholics, Smokers, or drug abusers because they only have one life to live and they do not want to ruin it. Unlike us Christians, who beleiev their is a second we continually mess up our lives by drinking and drug abusing because we think their is a second life, we can be redeemed in the next. Now thats not all Christians, but I think you all understand where I am coming from. Atheists will do their best to keep themselves healthy, because when they die thats IT they are done. Atheists keep themselves morally higher because they have too, why? Because they feel that they only have ONE life to live and they are not going to ruin it. So accoridng to morals they are superior. So good job Atheists
....lol... no seriously keep up the damn good work.

No crimes commited because they have one life, do not want to spend it in jail.
Will not steal someones wife, because they do not want to get murdered..lol..
The ten comandments can be brought and a lot of the commandments the Atheists have us beat, except on believeing that their is a God and about 2 others. I would post more but breakfast is ready!

[edit on May 11th 2009 by TheMythLives]



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 09:23 AM
link   

Originally posted by ldyserenity
IMHO Nobody is morally superior to anybody, nobody is superior to anybody, except the divine being superior to humankind. This line of thinking on the part of religious leaders, government officials, even corporations, is the downfall of mankind. Anybody who feels superior in any way, are masters of oppression and destruction. This is why we are failing as a society!


I take that one step farther. There is nobody/no thing that is morally superior to everybody else.

Ethically, however, we can look at prison populations and see that atheists are vastly under-represented in US jails. Cold numbers would certainly imply a certain conclusion.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 09:41 AM
link   
reply to post by The All Seeing I
 


This agenda to demonise non-heterosexuality is one that's been around since Rome converted to Christianity, because before that, the Romans didn't care at all about it. The funny thing is that a lot of the bits of the bible that are referenced to justify the hate, they are frequently misunderstood. But even though the bible does over all condemn gay acts, to say that God hates fags is laughable. Sexuality isn't something that we have choice over, you can't choose who you are attracted to. This would mean that God hates people for things they had no power over, which is strange considering he is supposedly a just, kind and fair god.

A religious individual growing up (in places that preach anti-gay messages) who discovers that they are gay is going to be internally tormented by the idea that they should have power over it and that they must have done something to invoke such a punishment. This drives some to suicide.

[edit on 11-5-2009 by Welfhard]



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 09:48 AM
link   

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by The All Seeing I
supporting harmful abstinence-only sex education,

Wow, hard to follow this one. In today’s world no sex is the safest, and you being the logical one should understand that.

Yes i understand that in theory no-sex would be the safest, but unfortunately in reality it backfires... in more ways then one.




Supporting abstinence is a choice just like anything else.

If you come from a bible-thumping family you have no choice, abstinence is your only option... unless you get a little creative... Virginity pledges lead to anal sex, says study



Most of the "straight edge" crowd I know are atheists, so I don’t think this is all religion…

Strange... most of the straight-laces i know are church goers.

[edit on 11-5-2009 by The All Seeing I]



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 10:18 AM
link   
This argument is ridiculous.

Early in the thread a few mentioned Hitler as an example of immorality in Atheism. No one disputed it, however some twisted the situation.

Then the defence of well sure he was bad but not all atheists are like that there are a few bad ones, but the majority are good blah blah blah. Or, oh he and others like him are like gods to the people so its just like a religion. Give me a freaking break.

Then the belt buckles are posted mentioning god, all of the sudden the attack on immoral christianity begins again, because well christians are immoral. What happened to the defence of well there are some bad apples, but most are good? When we're talking christianity I guess that argument is not valid, only for atheists.

I just couldn't get past the 3-4th page.


Men are good and evil and everything inbetween. Beliefs are abused, twisted and used to attain personal agenda's. Without religion there would be other excuses in its place. Just read alot of other threads on this baord and get a feel for the immorality of men.

Big Oil,
Big Army
Space
Tecnology
Land
Resources
Hatred
Ego
Politics
Greed
Money

These are things that cause the world problems, but they are not god or religion related. While religion may be used as an excuse/front for a few of these, it is just that, a front.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 10:24 AM
link   

Originally posted by Lightmare


Also, I have never met a Christian that would deny themself or anyone else a blood transfusion or other important medical attention if it was needed. Again, there are small fringe groups within the faith who might do that. But the majority of Christians do not subscribe to that school of thought.



The Jehovah's Witnesses will excommunicate you from their church if you have a blood transfusion, thats a fact. They report 7.1 million members, I wouldn't call that a fringe group.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 10:26 AM
link   

Originally posted by Gawdzilla



I take that one step farther. There is nobody/no thing that is morally superior to everybody else.

Ethically, however, we can look at prison populations and see that atheists are vastly under-represented in US jails. Cold numbers would certainly imply a certain conclusion.

Well for all that matter, so are pagans and wiccans vastly under represented in US jails (except those that belong to the bike gang, which really have no affilliation with the religion). So should I say that also pagans and wiccans are morally superior, no. What you wrote makes no sense.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 10:33 AM
link   
reply to post by ldyserenity
 


"Well for all that matter, so are pagans and wiccans vastly under represented in US jails (except those that belong to the bike gang, which really have no affilliation with the religion). So should I say that also pagans and wiccans are morally superior, no. What you wrote makes no sense. "

By under-represented, I meant percentage wise. Do you have figures for the percentage of self-described wiccans and pagans in US jails? I'd be interested in those numbers.

BTW, it makes sense. You just have to realize that largest percentage of prisoners in jails, per capita, are self-described Christians and Muslims. "People of the Book". Obviously being a religious person is no indicator of morality.



new topics

top topics



 
3
<< 4  5  6    8  9  10 >>

log in

join