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At the very least it's constructed out of fear and denying basic human rights.
The hard science backed by oil companies or hard science done by scientists?
I believe Jesus said something about vanity and bragging about one's works.
Originally posted by FSBlueApocalypse
Originally posted by Xtrozero
Originally posted by FSBlueApocalypse
What part?
This part...
"open to learning and tolerant"
An Atheist is on the extreme other end of religious zealous, and extremism either way is a bad thing.
Atheists are as crazy and intolerant as the religious zealous are.
What the.....
I don't know what atheists you know, but I've never felt like running into a church or mosque with dynamite strapped to me. Perhaps you misunderstand that atheists simply want our views to be out and public as any religion. Granted you have your FANATICAL atheists who do things like try to ban religious displays, but the vast majority simply want to be accepted into the norm.
Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Xtrozero
And so would this be true on the micro scale? Do individual people with zero religion have complete lack of value for life
Originally posted by Xtrozero
I would say non-religious person has a much harder time finding a moral compass to follow than a religious person does.
Originally posted by angel of lightangelo
Originally posted by Xtrozero
I would say non-religious person has a much harder time finding a moral compass to follow than a religious person does.
Mind if I ask what brings you to that conclusion?
Originally posted by Xtrozero
Morality is learned, and there aren’t too many establishments other than religion that teaches this at a fundamental level starting at a very early age. Also, religion normally institutes heavy repercussions for evil actions that non-religious people do not have.
Originally posted by angel of lightangelo
Originally posted by Xtrozero
Morality is learned, and there aren’t too many establishments other than religion that teaches this at a fundamental level starting at a very early age. Also, religion normally institutes heavy repercussions for evil actions that non-religious people do not have.
Let me ask you something.
Who was the first person to tell you "no?" Who first scolded you for doing something wrong? Who first taught you a lesson about right and wrong?
Originally posted by Xtrozero
This is like the chicken or the egg scenario.
Let me ask you what is right or wrong? Since right and wrong has been blurred throughout our history it is kind of hard to figureout.
Originally posted by angel of lightangelo
Originally posted by Xtrozero
This is like the chicken or the egg scenario.
Huh? How so? I can recall. It was my mother. My mother was the first person to tell me no. She was the one to teach me that hitting my sister was wrong. Why do you think it is impossible to answer who first taught you to behave properly?
Originally posted by Xtrozero
As in who came first...your mom was your first but who taught her? Your grandmother...chicken or the egg... I’m not trying to be an antagonist, ......
Originally posted by angel of lightangelo
Originally posted by Xtrozero
As in who came first...your mom was your first but who taught her? Your grandmother...chicken or the egg... I’m not trying to be an antagonist, ......
Whoa whoa whoa. Slow down buddy. I have no idea why you are running off on that tangent but that is not at all what I am getting at. I simply asked you a question. You specifically, who told you, the person reading this, not to do bad things?
Stop thinking about alterior motives and other such sneakiness. It is just a question that you can answer. I could care less who told them and them and them and them. I am asking you who told you to be good. Can you answer that?
Originally posted by Xtrozero
Why do you want your views out in public, or why even care...
I do not believe in Santa Claws and those who do I really do not care if they believe or not. I also play the game with my kids to not spoil the magical fun of it all, but there really isn’t deep thought on my part since I do not have any belief in him.
One thing that I always wondered about is why should you care?
I don't know any religious people who feel the need to strap on a bomb either.
But if you count up all the evil acts in the world that are based on religious reasons and counted up all the evil acts that are not based on religion you would see that the vast majority have nothing to do with religion at all.
So the question is whether the world would be better off with or without religion.
As an Atheist what do you use as a moral compass? What would be interesting is if all those who happen to be in jail were asked whether their lack of morals were based on religion or non religion…
[edit on 14-12-2008 by Xtrozero]
If you are very religious, as in you follow a religion very strictly which was given to you by society, then you are in the first, thesis, stage.
If you are sick of religion and do not believe in any form of God then you are in the antithesis stage. This will help you reach the sinthesis one.
While you are in the antithesis stage, you might experience a very profound experience where you will feel/know God, at this moment you move in the sinthesis stage, where God is totaly different from the one in the thesis stage.
Originally posted by Xtrozero
I would say non-religious person has a much harder time finding a moral compass to follow than a religious person does. Morality is learned, and there aren’t too many establishments other than religion that teaches this at a fundamental level starting at a very early age.
Originally posted by Xtrozero
Ok...who taught me? My parents...
their morals were based on religion....
Sorry if you did not understand what I was getting at.
You see the age old question is whether the chicken or the egg came first. You suggest your parents taught you, but from what moral compass did they follow to teach you?
And if you say a non-religious one then I would ask who taught them? And the answer would be their parents, so on and so on.
At some point morals are based on something...
Originally posted by angel of Xtrozero
At some point morals are based on something...
Originally posted by angel of lightangelo
Sure it is, logic.
Originally posted by juveous
Take one's say over the "lie" for example. is lying wrong? lying is very rational at times, and can save a great deal of trouble, but a lie exposed often results in an entire worse scenario than the original "truth".
Originally posted by Astyanax
Doing What Comes Naturally
How are the moral instincts developed and shaped in human beings? As you say, through a process of learning. Who is the teacher? Surely not religion. Long before a child can have any religious conception at all, it has already learnt the bases of morality. It has learnt not to soil itself or play with its own excrement. It has learnt that it must obey its parents. It has learnt that it is wrong to tell lies and take what does not belong to it. It has learnt that violence against other human beings is wrong. One could go on in this vein for some time; clearly the early development of morality has nothing whatsoever to do with religion.
Religion quite clearly has its uses; it may even (it is quite likely) procure survival and reproductive advantages for its adherents. But eating excrement, as any dung-beetle will tell you, also has its selective advantages. Goulash de merde sacerdotal, anyone?
Originally posted by angel of lightangelo
Sure it is, logic.
I can fix your little chicken and egg problem for you quite easily. The problem is that since I had to ask who taught you "no" 3 times just to get that through, my hope that you will grasp this is saddly fading.
As a little boy, I had a toy. I loved having it. Someone came and took it away from me. That sucked. I did not like that feeling at all.
I also inherently like people, i just do. I like them to be happy around me, not upset at my presence.
Following so far?
Ok, well I learned from this that taking things from people makes them feel badly. I do not want to make people feel badly so I will not take their things.
My grandpa died. I missed him. Lesson - people get sad when people die so don't kill anyone cuz someone somewhere loves them.
I tried to simplify it as much as I can since, well you know, but I hope you can catch the drift.
As societies developed and evolved, they went through similar processes and that is how most of our laws actually came about. Sorry, not based on god, the bible, the ten commandments, none of the crap Billy Graham told ya. There is no complete set of statutes pertaining to "honor thy mother and father" or "have no other gods before me." I know, it is dissappointing to learn.
Anyway, sorry about that side trip there. See, all it takes is a little empathy and human interaction and viola! I know, who taught me empathy right? Maybe some people are just born to understand that what they percieve as bad may be a shared experience so it is then easy to imagine other's suffering as a shared experience, but that is just me. I guess I was born morally supperior to you? I mean, I could figure out on my own not to do bad things and you are stuck talking about chickens and eggs, caught in some moebius strip of when and where were morals first handed down from the heavens.
Originally posted by Xtrozero
First, can we dispense with this parent to child attitude you seem to want to use on me…please?
Second, we are debating the OP posts and for you to ask me one simple question and want one simple answer we are going to be here a long time…and I would need to ask you to get to your point for your question has little relevance in how you presented it.
This would of been a nice start to your question