Obama Birth Certificate Rears Its Head - Again

reply to post by mel1962


As I quite clearly pointed out above, he has yet to release his Long Form Birth Certificate Document, but rather released his Short Form Certificate of Live Birth. These documents are not the same thing, as in Hawaii you could register for a Certificate of Live Birth (Short Form) after being born in another country, if your parents had been residents of Hawaii for a said period before the birth. This is why there is refusal to release the Long Form that contains the Hospital and Delivering Doctors signature.

reply to post by defcon5


So you offer no facts to the contrary, I offer facts . . . but it doesn't matter???

I am saying he is a US citizen per the State of Hawaii, now whats your proof . . . show me the money . . . where's foreign birth certificate . . . where's his mother's document relinquishing her citizenship . . . where are all these items!!!!

Come on, to be viable you must back up your arguments, otherwise your not relevant!

reply to post by mel1962


Prove to me that those countries even provide the same type of documentation that is required in the United States of America, then I will go dig for them. Though in truth, from what I understand, his people have been busy trying to sequester any documents that show the truth one way or the other.

[edit on 12/6/2008 by defcon5]

reply to post by defcon5


SHOW ME THE PROOF OF HIS FOREIGN BIRTH

Hearsay and making circular arguments are not proof, come on prove me wrong - I triple dog dare you!

[edit on 12/6/08 by mel1962]

[edit on 12/6/08 by mel1962]

reply to post by mel1962


You show nothing but a news paper add that can be generated after the birth, and the application for the "Certificate of Live Birth", and is not official documentation of where that birth had really occurred, that does not constitute proof in any court of law.
For that matter I can show you his school records listing him as a Citizen of Indonesia:



[edit on 12/6/2008 by defcon5]

reply to post by defcon5


Except the GOP said he was born in Hawaii. Without him being born there the Secret Muslim and Madrassa attacks don't work. With out that document saying he was born in Hawaii, and attended a Madrassa, the entire attack is gone. Also, I'll give and anyone else all my money if you can show a Kenyan BC of Barack Obama. Until you or any one else does this is just more racism and bigotry.

[edit on 6-12-2008 by GamerGal]

reply to post by defcon5


That's a school registery, its not an official record, by the way it does list his birth place as Hawaii. Well that's start, although it is more proof he was born in Hawaii.

Keep looking, I am waiting, what else you got????

reply to post by GamerGal


The problem with your logic is that you think that these supposed attacks, if they even did occur (as I have yet to see any documentation of such an attack), came about via different people. The Lawsuit began with Democrat Philip Berg:

A prominent Pennsylvania Democrat has sued Sen. Barack Obama, the Democratic National Committee and the Federal Election Commission, claiming that Obama is not a natural-born citizen and, therefore, is not eligible to be president of the United States.
Philip J. Berg, a former member of Pennsylvania's Democratic State Committee and former deputy attorney general of Pennsylvania, filed the lawsuit this week in U.S District Court, asking the court to declare Obama ineligible for the presidency and to prevent him from running for the position.

So I guess your argument about "THEY" starts falling apart when he take that into consideration, eh?

reply to post by mel1962


It lists his citizenship as from Indonesia, which means that he expatriated.
Again we have TWO citizenship questions being addressed here not just one.

To start out, I'm not an Obama hater. But it is possible he actually was born in Kenya and his parents did what was necessary to make his birthplace appear to be Hawaii by putting in the announcements and doing the Hawaiian paperwork retroactively. Kenyans would happily destroy any conflicting paperwork for their favoured son. This may be farfetched for a struggling young couple to do in 1961, but American citizenship has always been prized.

It's been argued persuasively by those tracking the young Obama that he joined the Nation of Islam on arriving in Chicago. This part of his CV has been scrubbed, but there’s still his many associations with that crowd like Louis Farrakhan, his employing of NIL members in his campaigns, even earlier this year, etc.

He would obviously join a church when his political ambitions emerged, as it was a requirement to win any election. He did choose the most Muslim sympathizing, whitey hating church around - sometimes described as a ‘mosque-in-drag.’

That said, I expect he's essential a secular guy and with the kind of political leaning you'd expect from a radicalized black intellectual in an Ivy League university.
One wonders how much he's advanced philosophically beyond this. Maybe not much.

But he's smart and very late in the game as it was realized he was a serious contender for the White house, a lot of skeletons from the closet were reburied.

Still a mystery his inner politics, but I expect his egotism will make him come to terms with the need to play ball with the existing power structure and it's players.

Anyways, he’s considered the people’s chosen President now, and the media, the judiciary, local supporters, will make sure that nothing interferes with his ascendancy.

The Supreme Court chose not allow a recount of votes in Florida in 2000, and they won’t challenge the Obama’s legitimacy. They want to keep their plum jobs. This is not the first nor will it be the last breach of the Constitution.


Mike F

reply to post by defcon5


What attacks??? Just Talking Facts!!!!!

You were doing OK with the school registry, well somewhat . . .

Well that's review your facts . . .

You have a school registry, while its not official document it is a potential supporting document if you find the official document, but obviously you can't.

Than you jump on Phil Berg's band wagon, now you do know that he say's Obama was born in Kenya and . . . you just provided me a document from Indonesia indicating that he was born in Hawaii?????

Hmmmmm . . . your facts are fitting together very well, not to mention that Phil Berg doesn't have the best reputation as an ethical lawyer, in fact:

Phil Berg is nothing more than a fraud and charlatan, he has been fined for unethical behavior by a federal judge . . . go ahead, research Mr. Berg's back ground its not very pretty!

reply to post by mmiichael



The newspapers information is from the Hawaii Health Bureau Statistics, it is not a private ad, see image below!

Obama born in Hawaii!

Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by mel1962

 

It lists his citizenship as from Indonesia, which means that he expatriated.
Again we have TWO citizenship questions being addressed here not just one.

Let me get my boots on first, its getting deep in here!

Its not an official document, you must go through a legal process with legal documents to re-nounce your citizenship! Did it ever occur to you that his step-father lied on the form about his citizenship so that his step-son could attend the school and not have to pay or pay less. That sounds more logical IMHO!

[edit on 12/6/08 by mel1962]

[edit on 12/6/08 by mel1962]

Originally posted by mel1962
What attacks??? Just Talking Facts!!!!!

I believe that was from a post which was not directed at you, and in response to another persons quotes of there having been attacks by some group that she considers to be 'racists', yet she is lumping all sorts of different people into that group and trying to say they are all the same.

She claims it is the Republican Party, yet two of the lawsuits come from different parties:

Philip J. Berg, a Democrat.
And
Alan Keyes the presidential candidate of the American Independent Party.

Just to name two. Apparently its a very diverse group made up of anyone who questions Obama.
Anyway....

Originally posted by mel1962
Than you jump on Phil Berg's band wagon, now you do know that he say's Obama was born in Kenya and . . . you just provided me a document from Indonesia indicating that he was born in Hawaii?????

As I have stated there is more then one issue here, and you are trying to lump them all into one. The Supreme Court does not review frivolous lawsuits, it picks and chooses which it will hear quite carefully, hence there is obviously some grounds here that need legitimate review.

1)Was he born in Kenya? If so that makes him either a:
__A) Citizen of Kenya, and thus a British Citizen, as Kenya was a British Territory at the time.
__B) A Duel US/British citizen, the same as the founding fathers who disqualified themselves from holding the office of president.

2)Did he later surrender his citizenship and expatriate?
__A)When his mother married an Indonesian man. (she expatriated him through marriage)
__B) When he was adopted by a foreigner of a country that did not allow duel citizenship.

Now you can try and lump all these things together an say that I am giving conflicting stories, but the truth is that you are simply not reading what was posted carefully enough. I clearly have stated that there is more then one issue involved in the citizenship process which is under question.

reply to post by mel1962


Not when you are a minor and you're mother marries someone from a different country and allows him to adopt you. If you disagree, please show me the laws from that time period that disprove this...

reply to post by defcon5


Once again my friend provide the documentation, there must be adoption papers, citizenship papers, etc.

Phil Berg and Alan Keyes (Obama beat him for the Senate seat - no axe to grind there!) are not the believable, honest or ethical people on this planet.

Your agruments are circular in nature and when you permit yourself to engage in a circular argument there is no answer to sastify the argument.

Just show me some proof, from an OFFICIAL DOCUMENT that proves Obama is not a Citizen of the US and Natural Born Citizen. I need proof that would hold up in court!

Short of that, your arguments will just be part of tin-foil crowds many conspiracy theories.

Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by mel1962

 

Not when you are a minor and you're mother marries someone from a different country and allows him to adopt you. If you disagree, please show me the laws from that time period that disprove this...

Au Contraire . . . you provide the laws that prove your point . . . this is like football, the call on the field stands until there is contrary undisputed information.

reply to post by mel1962


Again Read above:

Even if Obama produced authenticated proof of his birth in Hawaii, however, the suit claims that the U.S. Nationality Act of 1940 provided that minors lose their American citizenship when their parents expatriate. Since Obama's mother married an Indonesian citizen and moved to Indonesia, the suit claims, she forfeited both her and Barack's American citizenship.

Uhm...BTW...
The call on the field is that he has yet to produce the documents required to hold the position of President.


[edit on 12/6/2008 by defcon5]

reply to post by mel1962



You once again show no proof yourself, other then crap from some blog like Fact Check, which was put up by the Democratic Party. You keep asking for documents that don't exist, which is the whole point of the thread, that he refuses to release them obviously because there is something to hide contained within. I assert that the Supreme Court would not be wasting its time on this if there is nothing to it, and to be honest with you I have wasted enough time on it myself for one day. In the mean time, you go ahead and close your eyes really tight, and keep repeating to yourself that there is nothing to this, however as I stated the Supreme Court does not hear issues that are frivolous as they get to chose which ones warrant consideration.

Anyway you have fun on here trying to debunk in favor of your chosen candidate all day....
I'm done for today.

reply to post by defcon5


I believe that only pertains to people married before 1922 and I think Obama's mother was married after that date since she was born in 1943. I maybe wrong, so I found link with the specifics of the law below:

1940 Act