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Obama Birth Certificate Rears Its Head - Again

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posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by danx
 


On a lighter note...can you imagine if the internet attack machine had been around when these folks were elected?

Andrew Jackson (1829-1837) is the only president born of two immigrants, both Irish. Presidents with one immigrant parent are Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809), whose mother was born in England, James Buchanan (1857-1861) and Chester Arthur (1881-1885), both of whom had Irish fathers, and Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921) and Herbert Hoover (1929-1933), whose mothers were born respectively in England and Canada.



posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by danx

I hope I made it clear that I don't endorse, or even agree, with the Federalist's opinion and conclusion.

I mentioned it because it served as basis for a pretty good discussion I had with redhatty yesterday, and because I believe it is the reasoning behind Leo Donofrio's argument.


Yes. Clear as a bell. I appreciate your objectivity and ability to entertain views contrary to your own. A rarity on ATS as of late.

Honestly... I was suprised when I read the Federalist opinion. They may be far right, but they have some heavyweight legal minds in their membership. If this opinion was the best that could be mustered in the far right rally call to deny the Pres. Elect. office, then I am not worried. If a layman mind like myself could see the fault lines in the argument, then better minds will easily tear it apart. It is not well founded...maybe their heart was not in it, but I suspect even astute legal minds can only stretch a given interpretation so far to suit an agenda.

Even Justice Thomas who is a member of the Federalist Society wouldn't risk his reputation endorsing a hearing based on this interpretation of "Natural Born Citizen". Leo's case will not be heard by the SCOTUS.
Just my humble opinion



posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by maybereal11
Yes. Clear as a bell. I appreciate your objectivity and ability to entertain views contrary to your own. A rarity on ATS as of late.


Thank you for your kind words!




Even Justice Thomas who is a member of the Federalist Society wouldn't risk his reputation endorsing a hearing based on this interpretation of "Natural Born Citizen". Leo's case will not be heard by the SCOTUS.
Just my humble opinion


It might be heard. Don't forget Donofrio's case is not pertaining to Obama exclusively, and I believe he has some pretty solid arguments regarding Roger Calero and John McCain.

I think some of the people who have been attacking Obama on this matter and supporting these cases, have not grasped the totality of the implications of it.

In the end, I think many will be surprised to see the Supreme Court ruling Obama eligible, and perhaps the candidate they voted for, ineligible. This scenario, isn't that far fetched.



[edit on 4-12-2008 by danx]



posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Here it is


"Barack Obama claims “particularly serious embarrassment will result from turning over the requested documentation” in the Berg case and has filed a request for dismissal and a protective order. Berg’s filing asks for copies of his birth certificate, citizenship records, passport and travel records, and other documentation proving citizenship in the U.S. as well as other countries. "

www.freerepublic.com...



posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 07:09 PM
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originally you did not have to be a natural born citizen, the framers of the constitution set a 11 year residency requirement for president. being natural born was added at a later point. that said if Obama is found to be not eligible to be president, what is the solution start another 2 year election campaign cycle or just let Biden be president? we can't survive another 2 years of "W".



posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 07:21 PM
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Well I just stumbled upon this, I know it is from a blog but it refects my theory above:

"In a Honolulu news conference on October 22nd Martin disclosed that Frank Marshall Davis was the biological father of Barack Obama, not Barack Obama senior. The Obama campaign has not denied Martin’s claim."

The rest of the article is partisan but worth a perusal for those interested...

citizenwells.wordpress.com... irector-ap-misleading-andy-martin-obama-camp-lies-factcheckorg-breaking-news/

[edit on 4-12-2008 by Tinkabit]



posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 07:23 PM
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If there is ANY truth to this, then for those that are intersted I can pull up some stuff about Frank Marshall and possible attempts to infiltrate the left movement in those days, let me know.......



posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 07:30 PM
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One by the Telegraph:
One chapter concerns the seduction by Mr Davis and his first wife of a 13-year-old girl called Anne. Mr Davis wrote that it was the girl who had suggested he had sex with her. “I’m not one to go in for Lolitas. Usually I’d rather not bed a babe under 20.

“But there are exceptions. I didn’t want to disappoint the trusting child. At her still-impressionistic age, a rejection might be traumatic, could even cripple her sexually for life.”

He then described how he and his wife would have sex with the girl. “Anne came up many times the next several weeks, her aunt thinking she was in good hands. Actually she was.

“She obtained a course in practical sex from experienced and considerate practitioners rather than from ignorant insensitive neophytes….I think we did her a favour, although the pleasure was mutual.”

On other occasions, Mr Davis would cruise in Hawaii parks looking for couples or female tourists to have sex with. He derived sexual gratification from bondage, simulated rape and being flogged and urinated on.

He boasted that “the number of white babes interested in at least one meeting with a Negro male has been far more than I can handle” and wished “America were as civilised as, say, Scandinavia”. He concluded: “I regret none of my experiences or unusual appetites; for me they are normal.”

According to Mrs Weatherly-Williams, Mr Davis lost touch with Mr Dunham some time in the 1980s. John Edgar Tidwell, who wrote the introduction to Davis's memoir and edited a collection of his work, said that there was no mention of Mr Dunham or Mr Obama in any of Mr Davis’s papers. "

...I don't wan't to sound like a prude, but frankly, that makes me want to have a bath.....

www.telegraph.co.uk... ama.html

www.telegraph.co.uk... ama.html

"


[edit on 4-12-2008 by Tinkabit]



posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 07:40 PM
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I notice it is not taking the link;

www.telegraph.co.uk... ama.html

Oh well. Link not working, here is entire article copied fromTelegraph:

Frank Marshall Davis, alleged Communist, was early influence on Barack Obama
New details about a black poet in Hawaii who was a key early influence in Barack Obama’s life can be revealed by The Telegraph.

By Toby Harnden in Washington
Last Updated: 9:25PM BST 24 Aug 2008

Barack Obama visited Mr Davis on several occasions to get his advice when he was grappling with racial issues Photo: AFP
Although identified only as Frank in Mr Obama’s memoir Dreams from My Father, it has now been established that he was Frank Marshall Davis, a radical activist and journalist who had been suspected of being a member of the Communist Party in the 1950s.

Obama's true colours: Making of the man who would be US president

Mr Davis moved to Honolulu from Chicago in 1948 with his second wife Helen Canfield, a white socialite, at the suggestion of his friend the actor Paul Robeson, who advised them that there would be more tolerance of a mixed race couple in Hawaii than on the American mainland.

A bohemian libertine who drank heavily and loved jazz, he became friends with Stanley Dunham, Mr Obama’s maternal grandfather in the 1960s. Mr Davis died in 1987 at the age of 81, five years before Mr Dunham.

“He knew Stan real well,” said Dawna Weatherly-Williams, a close friend of Mr Davis “They’d play Scrabble and drink and crack jokes and crack jokes and argue. Frank always won and he was always very braggadocio about it too. It was all jocular. They didn’t get polluted drunk. And Frank never really did drugs, though he and Stan would smoke pot together.”

While his mother was in Indonesia during part of his teenage years, Mr Obama lived with his white grandparents. Mrs Weatherly-Williams said that the poet was first introduced to the future Democratic presidential candidate in 1970 at the age of 10.

“Stan had been promising to bring Barry by because we all had that in common - Frank’s kids were half-white, Stan’s grandson was half-black and my son was half-black. We all had that in common and we all really enjoyed it. We got a real kick out of reality.”

Maya Soetoro-Ng, Obama's half-sister, told the Associated Press recently that her grandfather had seen Mr Davis was “a point of connection, a bridge if you will, to the larger African-American experience for my brother".

In his memoir, Mr Obama recounts how he visited Mr Davis on several occasions, apparently at junctures when he was grappling with racial issues, to seek his counsel. At one point in 1979 Mr Davis described university as “an advanced degree in compromise” that was designed to keep blacks in their place.

Mr Obama quoted him as saying: “Leaving your race at the door. Leaving your people behind. Understand something, boy. You’re not going to college to get educated. You’re going there to get trained.”

He added that “they’ll tank on your chain and let you know that you may be a well-trained, well-paid 'n-word', but you’re a 'n-word' just the same.”

It has also been established that Mr Davis, who divorced in 1970, was the author of a hard-core pornographic autobiography published in San Diego in 1968 by Greenleaf Classics under the pseudonym Bob Greene.

In a surviving portion of an autobiographical manuscript, Mr Davis confirms that he was the author of Sex Rebel: Black after a reader had noticed the “similarities in style and phraseology” between the pornographic work and his poetry.

“I could not then truthfully deny that this book, which came out in 1968 as a Greenleaf Classic, was mine.” In the introduction to Sex Rebel, Mr Davis (writing as Greene) explains that although he has “changed names and identities…all incidents I have described have been taken from actual experiences”.

He stated that “under certain circumstances I am bisexual” and that he was “ a voyeur and an exhibitionist” who was “occasionally mildly interested in sado-masochism”, adding: “I have often wished I had two penises to enjoy simultaneously the double – but different – sensations of oral and genital copulation.”

The book, which closely tracks Mr Davis’s life in Chicago and Hawaii and the fact that his first wife was black and his second white, describes in lurid detail a series of shockingly sordid sexual encounters, often involving group sex.

One chapter concerns the seduction by Mr Davis and his first wife of a 13-year-old girl called Anne. Mr Davis wrote that it was the girl who had suggested he had sex with her. “I’m not one to go in for Lolitas. Usually I’d rather not bed a babe under 20.

“But there are exceptions. I didn’t want to disappoint the trusting child. At her still-impressionistic age, a rejection might be traumatic, could even cripple her sexually for life.”

He then described how he and his wife would have sex with the girl. “Anne came up many times the next several weeks, her aunt thinking she was in good hands. Actually she was.

“She obtained a course in practical sex from experienced and considerate practitioners rather than from ignorant insensitive neophytes….I think we did her a favour, although the pleasure was mutual.”

On other occasions, Mr Davis would cruise in Hawaii parks looking for couples or female tourists to have sex with. He derived sexual gratification from bondage, simulated rape and being flogged and urinated on.

He boasted that “the number of white babes interested in at least one meeting with a Negro male has been far more than I can handle” and wished “America were as civilised as, say, Scandinavia”. He concluded: “I regret none of my experiences or unusual appetites; for me they are normal.”

According to Mrs Weatherly-Williams, Mr Davis lost touch with Mr Dunham some time in the 1980s. John Edgar Tidwell, who wrote the introduction to Davis's memoir and edited a collection of his work, said that there was no mention of Mr Dunham or Mr Obama in any of Mr Davis’s papers.


[edit on 4-12-2008 by Tinkabit]



posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 08:23 PM
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I'm not even gonna comment on the veracity of those comments, but Tinkabit, even assuming all of that is real, how is it relevant to this thread?

This is quite ironic, since this is your thread.

I haven't checked, but there are probably threads where you can take and discuss that stuff.

Perhaps our debate here would be best served if you kept the discussion on-topic.



[edit on 4-12-2008 by danx]



posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 10:49 PM
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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
that said if Obama is found to be not eligible to be president, what is the solution start another 2 year election campaign cycle or just let Biden be president? we can't survive another 2 years of "W".


No, if Obama is found ineligible, Vice-President elect Biden acts as President, as stated by Section 3 of the 20th Amendment:

If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.


I believe the House would then select the President.



posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by danx
 


provides motivation and explains embarrassment comment


would at least explain reluctance

be nice



posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by Tinkabit
provides motivation and explains embarrassment comment
would at least explain reluctance
be nice


Ha, gotcha. I wasn’t following where you were headed with all of that, but I now conceded that it was on-topic indeed.

And while we have no way of knowing for sure if any of it is true, at least it goes to show that there might be more than one reason (e.g. “he wasn’t born in Hawaii”) for Obama’s reluctance in releasing his birth certificate.



posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 09:18 AM
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Originally posted by Tinkabit
"Barack Obama claims “particularly serious embarrassment
www.freerepublic.com...


You know FreeRepublic is a discussion board, just like ATS, right? (Sorry ATS) The phrase “particularly serious embarrassment will result from turning over the requested documentation” is not found in "pissant's" source... only on blogs across the Internet. In fact, pissant's title asks for a source. If the DNC properly responded to Berg's suit with that quote, I'd expect to find it somewhere more reliable, like in the lawsuit.

I know. You like blogs. But a response from the DNC should be out there somewhere. Pissant doesn't link to it, unfortunately...

It's not important unless you're looking for the truth...



posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 10:12 AM
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Oh, and it's in the MSM!
And aside from Keith's inaccuracy about the Birth Certificate being validated, what the lawyer says is absolutely correct!


Olbermann



posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by Tinkabit
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Here it is
"Barack Obama claims “particularly serious embarrassment will result from turning over the requested documentation” in the Berg case and has filed a request for dismissal and a protective order. www.freerepublic.com...


FROM YOUR SOURCE:


First, let’s establish that I am no lawyer so don’t depend on my interpretation of the Berg vs. Obama lawsuit as being accurate...


And from there it goes into some of the most bizzare claims and conclusions I have seen to date...ranging from misrepresenting the truth, to fabricating qoutes and flat out lying etc...

First let me say, I am not a doctor and I am slightly unstable, but I am going to operate on you anyways, please bear with me....nurse ....scalpel please.



posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by danx

No, if Obama is found ineligible, Vice-President elect Biden acts as President, as stated by Section 3 of the 20th Amendment:

If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.


I believe the House would then select the President.


This clause is assuming the electoral college had already met. They meet on December 15th to officially "elect" Obama. If he was declared ineligable prior to the 15th...the electoral college (the majority of which is not bound by law to vote for who their delegation voted for) could elect almost ANYONE from Joe the Plumer to McCain to Sarah Palin to Joe Biden to Hillary Clinton...It wouldn't be without significant controversy, but it would be legal. If on December 15th the electoral college elects Pres. Elect. Obama and after the 15th he is declared inelligable then the above would apply.

Of course you know it's my own opinion that all of the speculation is fringe far right fantasy. I haven't seen a single claim concerning the citizenship issue that hasn't withered and crumbled when exposed to daylight.



posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by maybereal11
 

Thank you for that insight


I’ve tried to research it, but I believe something like that (the President elect not qualifying) has never happened.



posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by danx
 


Also pertaining to our earlier discussion about dual citizenship I have researched further.. BH has said the same, but he is some further data.

During the war of 1812 there was a British slogan of "Once a British citizen, ALWAYS a British citizen" Otherwise Britain considered anyone born in Britain who immigrated to the USA and had children in the US...Both the immigrant and the child born on US soil were still British Citizens.

It was attempt to discourage enlistment from former British subjects and their offspring from enlisting in the battle. Note..this was BRITISH LAW...not US Law…and you can imagine how much the validity the American Government gave to the British citizenship claim on American Citizens at the time…It was laughable and backfired as former British citizens and their offspring enlisted to fight Britain in droves in part in response to this ridiculous British claim that they somehow owed allegiance to Britain.

Ditto during WW when American Soldiers were fighting Italy/Mussolini in the WW...Italy considered US Italian immigrants to still be Italian citizens and called for their allegiance in the war. Again note this was ITALIAN law not US. Italian Americans again enlisted in high numbers to fight Mussolini and the American government DID NOT recognize the ITALIAN claim of dual citizenship for its citizens.

Otherwise Obama was given citizenship BY BRITAIN via Kenya being a colony and his father being Kenyan at the time of his birth...In short we (The USA) don't care what citizenship laws other countries claim upon OUR OWN CITIZENS by descent...They are not OUR laws and his mother was American and he was born on US soil..he's ours and there is historical precedent for the US loudly expressing this policy in the past in times of war.

If we considered valid these foriegn claims of citizenship then we have had Presidents who were foriegn citizens in the past...as I posted above..

Andrew Jackson (1829-1837) is the only president born of two immigrants, both Irish. Presidents with one immigrant parent are Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809), whose mother was born in England, James Buchanan (1857-1861) and Chester Arthur (1881-1885), both of whom had Irish fathers, and Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921) and Herbert Hoover (1929-1933), whose mothers were born respectively in England and Canada.



posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by maybereal11
Andrew Jackson (1829-1837) is the only president born of two immigrants, both Irish.


And Irish Nationality Law says:



If either of your parents was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth, then you are automatically an Irish citizen, wherever you were born (except in very limited circumstances).


So, Andy was an Irish Citizen, even though he was born here. He had dual citizenship. His loyalties were split as much as Obama's are.



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