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Caution Satanic Discussion: I Watched this

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posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 09:31 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 





God does not govern people.


Is that so? Then it is in direct contradiction to the statements of the person I was responding to.

This is the problem with biblical debates. Adherents claim one truth, but everyone has their own distinct interpretation of it which is often so diametrically opposed that it even leads to violence and fighting. That is not the hallmark of truth. Truth is demonstrable. It is testable. It is the same across all peoples and all cultures. Gravity, is a truth. All people who live on a mass of sufficient size will experience it. There is no fighting or debate on the matter. (what causes it, however, that may be a different story - but that it exists, no) If God is truly omnipotent and omniscient, the creator of all things, then why is his truth not so obvious as even a simple celestial mechanic that he supposedly designed?




Satan is not the only one who says man will become like gods knowing both good and evil. God repeats this exactly.


If the knowledge of Good and Evil was the exclusive purview of the Gods, and by eating of the fruit - mankind came to know good and evil - then Satan did not lie to Eve. They did become as gods, because they were given the knowledge of Good and Evil - which was a trait exclusive to Gods.

Further, I don't understand where you're coming from when you talk about the rules of getting into heaven. Without knowledge of good and evil, then one could not distinguish between the two - and would commit acts both good and evil with impunity and without regard to the effects of their actions. They'd be like other animals who do not have complex social structures and morals guiding their interactions.

If being "Good", a goal of the commandments, is to prime a person for entry into heaven - then how stacked is the game against mankind even before "the fall" if they cannot recognize good from evil? Of course, they could be automatically granted entrance into heaven - but then, that would be allowing a creature who cannot distinguish between good and evil into a VIP section which is only supposed to allow good. This proposition makes no logical sense.


When you understand the truth


Again, even those who make careers out of studying the scriptures of the various world religions cannot come to any sort of a consensus about what the "truth" is. The Truth is not elusive. It does not hide from those that seek it. It does not deceive. The truth simply is. I find it audacious how so many people can claim that so much of humanity is "lost to the truth" - yet we can decode the human genome, observe the radiation caste of the beginnings of the universe, and have a decent enough grasp on such wholly confusing subjects such as Quantum Mechanics to make predictions with alarming accuracy. This is especially ironic as, usually, it seems it's the least educated and least well informed of the public who hold the banner of "understanding the truth" which seems too complex a subject for even our best and brightest minds who have unlocked the secrets of the universe to comprehend. Again... all the while never actually coming to any sort of a clear or concise agreement on exactly what that truth is.




Jesus = God, as such Jesus is older than Satan.


I could be wrong here, but I don't recall Jesus ever actually saying that he WAS God. He made reference to being one "with" god, in purpose, but only that he is subservient and obedient to God - and that anyone with sufficient faith can preform the same miracles as he. If God and Jesus truly are the same being - then does it make sense that, as Jesus was dying on the cross, he would ask "Father, why have you forsaken me?". Would he not have asked... "Why have I forsaken myself?"

IIRC, this was a major point of contention during the Counsel of Nicea when bringing together the different sects of Christianity under a single banner. Christ's divinity was not decided by celestial revelation, or by Christ himself, but was decided by committee and popular vote. What came out of the counsel, including the concept of a trinitarian god, was called the Orthodoxy and the foundation of the modern Christian faith.

Or perhaps I should let AronRa explain the concept of truth and why religion apparently seems to lack any of it.



[edit on 3-12-2008 by Lasheic]



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


Ok, I get it. Christianity is the only one true religion and Jesus is really god and blah blah blah. I am sorry, there was a slogan that said deny ignorance, it did not say that I had to completely discount any and all other religions except Christianity. I did not read that anywhere. If you were being intellectually honest, you would mark that as your opinion based on your idea of what your faith is. If you were on a Christian website, you could all have a point. You are not. Your myth is no more or less valid than anyone else here's myth.

.....and whether you like it or not, other myths have been talking about Satan Looooooooooooooooooooooooooong before your myth made up Jesus to claim he was god all along.

I get it now, Christiocentric board and all things are filtered through the all conceited eye of Jesus here. Even though he was actually the last one to show up to the party but he said he was really, technically first so I guess that solves it. Sorry for thinking outside Christianity, people.



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 10:27 PM
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We're beating a dead horse...



To twice slay the slain,

By dint of the Brain,

Is but labour in vain,

Unproductive of gain,

And so I shall bid you 'Adieu'!





[edit on 3-12-2008 by apaulo]



posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 03:53 PM
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I always was under the impression that the devil (Satan) was a fallen angel who disagreed with God's idea that humanity was perfect, and set out to 'prove' that man and woman was fundamentally wicked, hence the Garden of Eden scene where the devil tempts Eve with the apple.

On other subject, I don't understand Satanists and their ideas that they are Gods and that they can do what they want? This idea does not hold water since if another satanist wanted what another satanist had, or wanted... Since they think they are Gods, they could do whatever they wanted...

Do you see where I am going with this?

If everybody was a satanist, Wars, kidnaps, murders, rapes, theft would EXPLODE.



posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 03:59 PM
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I really wish ATS had a rule against these annoying, "I have this amazing information and video...", but you cant see it, or I will upload it later, or any other number of lame excuses.

When he decides to post the video, then I will be interested.



posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by star in a jar

On other subject, I don't understand Satanists and their ideas that they are Gods and that they can do what they want? This idea does not hold water since if another satanist wanted what another satanist had, or wanted... Since they think they are Gods, they could do whatever they wanted...

Do you see where I am going with this?

If everybody was a satanist, Wars, kidnaps, murders, rapes, theft would EXPLODE.


First of all, Rape is against the rules even to a Satanist. The rest is complicated but it makes sense if you do the reading. I would be happy to explain any aspect of it that you like. I understand all this crap on ATS about the manner factions and all but here in the U.S. there is only one officially recognized religion that bears the title Satanism. Any questions about that, feel free to U2U me, derail this thread about it, or start a new one. I would rather enlighten than listen to people espose opinions based on what they think in place of what they should know and could if they really wanted.



posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 05:14 PM
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The devil has one last plan which is to destroy everything that God has created on Earth and in heaven, his plan in the end is to stop men going to Heaven where he was cast out of and t bring many Angels and many people to Hell with him.

So does it sound like order and chaos are one of the same? It is not actually, chaos is like earth and the universe with a computer virus where sin.com grew and grew and became worse with every generation that was to come. The Angels tried to currupt man by mixing their seed to save them selves whist at the same time preventing Jesus being born / Terminator John Conner not so well known Bible story. Well the Roman King Herod tried killing off Jesus too at 2years and younger when he demanding the execusions of all babies during that time.

They are not the same entity but a few underground secret organisations probably think God and the Devil is the same part of the yingyang circle but they are not. It's all part of the deception to confuse people spiritually like some form of spiritual correctness delusion.



posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by The time lord
The devil has one last plan which is to destroy everything that God has created on Earth and in heaven, his plan in the end is to stop men going to Heaven where he was cast out of and t bring many Angels and many people to Hell with him.

And God allows such behavior? I am appalled.


So does it sound like order and chaos are one of the same? It is not actually, chaos is like earth and the universe with a computer virus where sin.com grew and grew and became worse with every generation that was to come.

Could you please give your interpretation of chaos and order?
Are you saying that with each generation the children became more sinful? That's pretty insulting.



posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 07:15 PM
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"1.did God have a choice when it came to creating the Universe?

*****God had a plan more so than a choice. He knew you before he created the universe and he knew then what choices you would make. He sets a plan, but we were given free will to make our own decisions. He just knows what our decisions will be. God never gives you more than you can handle and when one door of Opportunity closes he opens a window if we call upon his name.

"2.did he know Satan would betray him? or is satan just another side to God? are they the same entity, and not separate? "

*****God allowed evil in the world because man was given free will and without a choice between good and evil man would be a robot. Satan fell because of pride. He desired to be God, not to be a servant of God. Notice the many "I will..." statements in Isaiah 14:12-15. Ezekiel 28:12-15 describes Satan as an exceedingly beautiful angel. Satan was likely the highest of all angels, the most beautiful of all of God's creations, but he was not content in his position. Instead, Satan desired to be God, to essentially "kick God off His throne" and take over the rule of the universe. Satan wanted to be God, and interestingly enough, that is what Satan tempted Adam and Eve with in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:1-5). How did Satan fall from Heaven? Actually, a fall is not an accurate description. It would be far more accurate to say that God cast Satan out of Heaven (Isaiah 14:15; Ezekiel 28:16-17). Satan is separate from God and a lower entity.

3.What would there be to judge good next to, with no evil? Is there such a thing as "good" unless there is an "evil"?

*****good point and I answered that before.

4.do we have a hand in creating God?

******Sure, if you gave birth to your parents before they gave birth to you. Man is a created being. He has no power to create or even to destroy. Man just changes the shape or composition of what is already created and names the principles and creations already here.

"do Gods die out after a culture stops worshiping them?"

*****There is but one God. This God, the creator, created angels. These angels served various purposes.

"and do new Gods come into being because we create them out of belief?"

*****Man has no power to accomplish much of anything beyond the physical world and nothing to do with the spiritual world.

"i certainly don't know the answers, but i don't believe in Satan as a separate being."

*****He was a higher level angel. There is a Hiearchy of angels and later fallen angels or demons.

"I think that for God to exist, then he must be everything."

******He is everything or controls everything.

"That includes Lucifer. He was created by God, and would likewise have some of the same force within him."

*****No, Lucifer made his own decision.

"I cannot understand a God who creates something that goes contrary to the plan, i mean...it's GOD, how would the creator of the universe make such a fundamental mistake, unless he had no choice."

*****It was part of the plan, God makes no mistakes.

"There is a train of thought that suggests that when creation was set into motion, God wasn't exactly at the controls as much as some think, and that he creates out of necesity."

*****God knew you before creation and all the decisions that you would make. He doesn't control your decisions as you make them. He just knows what decisions you will make. God is a 11 or more dimensional being. We are only four, length, width, height and time. Animals have one, two or three dimensions. Angels or Demons have 5+ dimensions.

"he is God, he must create to be, and therefore when a balance was needed to the "good" he created evil out of neccesity. It is very though provoking. i look forward to reading this more. "

******He created because he wanted to out of love.



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 02:50 AM
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Burdman is right. The fact is; Jesus has always been around as long as GOD as he IS GOD. They created Satan who they say in the beginning (of angels) an Angel of light. But he rebelled and took a large part of the angels with him who became demons because of their rebellion. They say still to this day he can appear as an angel of light. Satan hates mankind and wants to seduce and take as many humans as he can to burn with him in hell to spite GOD. In his arrogance and conceit, he is quite mad with what power he is allowed to have. I think it's said he is not allowed into heaven anymore but for quite a long time when he wanted to torture and afflict, he had to go to GOD to ask him for permission. And GOD would give it or not, as he willed. You can see an example of one case in which this is illustrated in the bible in the book of Job. That would be in the old testament if you're interested. He also hates Jesus even more than we humans and tempted him after Jesus had been on a mountaintop for many days. He offered him all the things a man could long for on this earth, money, health, all the desires of the heart and Jesus declined and passed the test. Satan was furious and designed to kill him and sent a demon to enter into Judas at the last supper in the sop that Jesus handed him. With that he ran to get his thirty pieces of silver and betrayed a man that was like his brother and who loved him even more than a brother. When he finally came to his senses, they say he hung himself. After Jesus died on the cross, he had completed the victory over Satan and was complete as Jesus mumured at the last: "It is finished." No, the devil is no part of a Christian and he HATES US ALL and roams around still today like a roaring lion looking for prey to devour....



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by ZenaV
Burdman is right. The fact is; Jesus has always been around as long as GOD as he IS GOD. They created Satan...blah blah blah blah blah


Is this now a fundamentalist Christian site? I thought we were looking to deny ignorance. It seems equally arrogant and ignorant to continue to claim that Jesus is older than Satan because Christians ALONE believe Jesus is God. You people do realize that you are the only ones to believe that right? More importantly though.....

and this makes 3 times.........

there ar religions older than yours that do not believe Jesus is God but they had Satan too, LONG BEFORE YOU ALL CAME AND HIJACKED THEIR STORY, and added that little bit about Jesus really being God. It is convenient but the closest to truth it ever gets is that you must be a Christian in order for this to be true.

Had I known that ATS would just accept Christianity as a correct religion instead of promoting the idea of critical thinking and NOT ONE RELIGION, I never would have joined this nuthouse.

Hey, let your ego run this debate all you like. Christians came last and then claimed their prophet was really first so they win. I cannot wait to see how God explains vanity to you people on your way down.



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 04:06 AM
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reply to post by angel of lightangelo
 


I'm not really sure what part of Jesus = God you are not understanding here. I don't actually follow Jesus, I follow God. Jesus even says if you know Jesus, then you also know the father(god).

God is in each of us. It is that bit of our consciousness that gives us the feeling of "I AM". I think, therefore I am. When you open up your consciousness and feel and see the connection with god, it changes you. This is explained in John 14:20.

I did not get my beliefs from Jesus, I was given them by god. And that does not mean I read them from the bible.

Now I realize that is not proof for you, or anyone else. Nor should it be. Everyone should have their own vision. I am not the normal christian, I do not take the bible as the authority. I don't get stuck on the false idols and so on.

I really don't care which came first. Lets just deny ignorance here and make the true statement that you believe Satan was first, because Jesus is not god, and they believe Jesus came first because Jesus is god.

[edit on 6-12-2008 by badmedia]



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 04:28 AM
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Originally posted by Lasheic

Is that so? Then it is in direct contradiction to the statements of the person I was responding to.

This is the problem with biblical debates. Adherents claim one truth, but everyone has their own distinct interpretation of it which is often so diametrically opposed that it even leads to violence and fighting. That is not the hallmark of truth. Truth is demonstrable. It is testable. It is the same across all peoples and all cultures. Gravity, is a truth. All people who live on a mass of sufficient size will experience it. There is no fighting or debate on the matter. (what causes it, however, that may be a different story - but that it exists, no) If God is truly omnipotent and omniscient, the creator of all things, then why is his truth not so obvious as even a simple celestial mechanic that he supposedly designed?


Well I think most Christians go to the church of Satan, so that pretty much will explain the contradictions. And they think I am a follower of Satan as well, so that is that. I only believe in the words of Jesus, not the church and all that, which I think is a manipulation. The true church Jesus spoke of exists inside people, and is built with knowledge and understanding(what makes someone rich in the eyes of god).

Real truth comes with understanding of it. If you do not understand the truth, then the truth is useless. It's about like running around screaming E=MC2, but having no actual understanding of what is being said. Sure, what they say is technically true, but the understanding of it is not.

What you say about the hallmark of truth isn't exactly right. Just because some people may be wrong, of have different ways of understanding things doesn't mean there is no truth. It's not a lie to say Jesus died on the cross for your sins, but it is a lie if you say you just have to believe in that, and then do whatever the church tells you to.



If the knowledge of Good and Evil was the exclusive purview of the Gods, and by eating of the fruit - mankind came to know good and evil - then Satan did not lie to Eve. They did become as gods, because they were given the knowledge of Good and Evil - which was a trait exclusive to Gods.

Further, I don't understand where you're coming from when you talk about the rules of getting into heaven. Without knowledge of good and evil, then one could not distinguish between the two - and would commit acts both good and evil with impunity and without regard to the effects of their actions. They'd be like other animals who do not have complex social structures and morals guiding their interactions.

If being "Good", a goal of the commandments, is to prime a person for entry into heaven - then how stacked is the game against mankind even before "the fall" if they cannot recognize good from evil? Of course, they could be automatically granted entrance into heaven - but then, that would be allowing a creature who cannot distinguish between good and evil into a VIP section which is only supposed to allow good. This proposition makes no logical sense.


Good is respecting the free will of others. Evil is infringing on the free will of others. That is the basic philosophy behind the commandments. When you understand that we are all god in the flesh, then the reason for them and why they are sins against god makes sense. If you do not realize we are all connected, that we are all god then it seems like "rules" and "laws".

Think of it like this - Imagine how the perfect and peaceful society would have to treat each other. And then be that change. Would it be anything other than how Jesus told people to act? Jesus, not the church. If the church is heaven I don't want to go. And that is what the commandments are about. So when you learn how to follow them, then you are allowed back into heaven.

The further you "fall", the more apparent the evil is. And the more apparent the truth will be to you.



Again, even those who make careers out of studying the scriptures of the various world religions cannot come to any sort of a consensus about what the "truth" is. The Truth is not elusive. It does not hide from those that seek it. It does not deceive. The truth simply is. I find it audacious how so many people can claim that so much of humanity is "lost to the truth" - yet we can decode the human genome, observe the radiation caste of the beginnings of the universe, and have a decent enough grasp on such wholly confusing subjects such as Quantum Mechanics to make predictions with alarming accuracy. This is especially ironic as, usually, it seems it's the least educated and least well informed of the public who hold the banner of "understanding the truth" which seems too complex a subject for even our best and brightest minds who have unlocked the secrets of the universe to comprehend. Again... all the while never actually coming to any sort of a clear or concise agreement on exactly what that truth is.


Try this post:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yes, you do have to seek the truth. Jesus tells people that. The bible and church is feed to people. You don't have to seek it because it is a manipulation and a lie meant to keep the wool over peoples eyes. There is truth in it, but the words are meaning less without understanding.

It doesn't matter how much people study the script. I got my knowledge directly from source by seeking truth. And for that I was given understanding of things.

I'm not ignorant at all. I don't want to brag on myself, but you would be hard pressed to find someone around here with a higher IQ than me. I am a self taught programmer and a wiz when it comes to logic.




I could be wrong here, but I don't recall Jesus ever actually saying that he WAS God. He made reference to being one "with" god, in purpose, but only that he is subservient and obedient to God - and that anyone with sufficient faith can preform the same miracles as he. If God and Jesus truly are the same being - then does it make sense that, as Jesus was dying on the cross, he would ask "Father, why have you forsaken me?". Would he not have asked... "Why have I forsaken myself?"

IIRC, this was a major point of contention during the Counsel of Nicea when bringing together the different sects of Christianity under a single banner. Christ's divinity was not decided by celestial revelation, or by Christ himself, but was decided by committee and popular vote. What came out of the counsel, including the concept of a trinitarian god, was called the Orthodoxy and the foundation of the modern Christian faith.

Or perhaps I should let AronRa explain the concept of truth and why religion apparently seems to lack any of it.


Jesus was god realized. Meaning he realized the truth on such a level that god was shining through him. Even Jesus says that if you do not hear his words, you will hear the words of the father(which i did). Check out John 14. It is very revealing. 14:20 says directly that god is in each of us(makes sense why the body is the temple of god). It is when you realize this that you become awake, and then the holy spirit will fill you and bring you knowledge and comfort.

It's a matter of perception, and the fact that ours is limited. That post I linked to explains a good bit of this stuff.

Religon lacks truth for the same reason Jesus argued with the Pharisees. Because it's taken literal instead of being understood.



Pharisee
1. A member of an ancient Jewish sect that emphasized strict interpretation and observance of the Mosaic law in both its oral and written form.
2. A hypocritically self-righteous person.


The mainstream christians are the pharisee's of Today. And Jesus would not be happy with what has been done in his name. He will reject them 100%, just as he says he will in Matthew 7.

I use to be on the other side of the fence - thinking how can these people believe this crap. Then I realized they didn't have a monopoly on god, so I started to seek and I found.

Truth is, those who do not claim to be christian are more times than not more inline with the teachings of Jesus than they realize. It's just been hidden because people equate what the church and christians do as being a reflection of Jesus, when in reality it is not.




[edit on 6-12-2008 by badmedia]



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 04:44 AM
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reply to post by Sparky63
 


Kudos, Sparky!
That is the exact point that I was going to make.
I'm surprised it took so long for anyone to make the distinction. Thank you!



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 04:53 AM
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The reference (biblical) that leads me to believe that Jesus is as old as God is: John 1:1 In the beginning was The Word, and The Word was with God, and The Word was God.

In all Christian circles that I am familiar with; The Word is synonymous with Jesus.



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 04:57 AM
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Originally posted by badmedia
reply to post by angel of lightangelo
 


I'm not really sure what part of Jesus = God you are not understanding here. I don't actually follow Jesus, I follow God. Jesus even says if you know Jesus, then you also know the father(god).



You do not? Go talk to a jewish person for a minute and then get back to me.


I really don't care which came first. Lets just deny ignorance here and make the true statement that you believe Satan was first, because Jesus is not god, and they believe Jesus came first because Jesus is god.


Who are they? anyway? Only Christians believe Jesus and God are the same person. The problem is that not only Christians believe in the the same god from the old testament as them. So who are "they" and what makes Christians so arrogant as to believe that their severely altered story is the only right one?

[edit on 6-12-2008 by angel of lightangelo]



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 05:36 AM
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reply to post by Lasheic
 


Btw, I missed the movie before, and just watched it. I don't disagree with the movie. Those things that are false should be pointed out as being false.

What it said about Jesus/God is also true. Jesus told people they were also a part of god(John 14:20). It is not that Jesus was god in the full, but rather that Jesus had come to realize the god and connection to god inside him.

It would be impossible for us to actually see god "in the full". But it is possible to see the god inside you. As I stated before, god is the part of you that gives you consciousness and the feeling of "I AM". These things can not result from the action and reaction design of the universe. This is why our bodies are a temple of God. When I had my vision of god, I was not once given anykind of name, nor was I told to do anything. I was just asked if I wanted it to end, and then I was given knowledge and understanding after. It was not until months after this that I seen what I learned in the words of Jesus. For some reason, what was being said made actual sense to me as truth, and I knew he was speaking truth that I had learned.

The idol is not the important part. Each culture is going to get their own "idol". But the message and teachings they bring are important. To worship the idol instead of taking from the teachings is like giving a cat a bowl of milk, and the cat just licks the side of the bowl instead of drinking the milk. And that has been done on purpose and by design to keep people from actually drinking the milk, and then they just move the bowl around(symbolism) to get the people to follow it. History has shown that. The church and the religion itself has been based off killing people who disagreed and so on. All because they have different idols. But if they would actually quit getting so hung up on the idol, and looked at the actual understandings instead, then they would see they have much in common, it's just the idols that are different.

It is is so silly to believe that god prefers 1 culture over and another, rather than each culture having it's mix of those who understand and those who don't. The truth is not in the image, or the words but in the understandings and teachings, and that truth is universal. It is only our ways of expressing these truths which change to meet our culture.

No coincidence the church seeks a 1 world religion(Christianity). It is done by all the people who are blind to the truth and follow the idols around. They think Jesus was a sacrifice for themselves, not that he sacrificed his life while knowing what would happen to him for showing people the truth.

It's about like people who go around waving flags on veterans day "remembering those who served" while at the same time giving away the very principles those people died for. If you really wanted to remember those people, then you would hold dear the principles of liberty they died for - not just give them away for your own security.

Do you think Jesus really cares who goes around praising him and saying his name all the time, or would he care more about people doing the right thing?

Here's an example of truth you can understand. Matthew 7.



1Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


What is being told here is that you need to take a look a things from the other perspective. When you put your place in the other perspective, then you can see how you are treating that person, and you will be able to see if you are treating that person right(and thus not be a hypocrite). When you do this, then you can see the error in your way, and remove the beam from your eye. And then show the other person how to do it as well.

Lets apply this to a real life example. The Iraq war. Lets put ourselves into the perspective of the other side, and see if we can find our beam. How would you feel if another country landed on our soil because of GWB, and decided we needed a change in leadership, and then took over the country and patrolled the streets with their military? Well when you put it like that, the person would be up in arms - no way would I sit there and let that happen. And maybe, just maybe they can see what they are doing to that person and remove that beam.

This is a truth. This little parable tells the truth, but you have to have understanding to see it, and how to apply it to your own life for improvement.

But how many times do you see those who claim to be Christians follow it? I couldn't even begin to tell the names I was called by many so called Christians because I was against the Iraq war before it started. Some of them even hoped I would die. And this was back when I was like you guys, "meh, stupid christians" I would think. I'd even tell them if God is like they say, he doesn't meet my morale standards(still believe that, I just know they aren't right now).

Same people talk about a personal relationship with god, but then don't really allow it unless you have photographic memory of the bible and tote the church line.

I could go on rambling, but the point is that just because there are ignorant people claiming and thinking they are christians it does not mean that is what it actually means. Get your own understanding, seek the truth and you will find your own answers. Everyone should have their own vision, not only rely on the vision of others(bible).



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 05:50 AM
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Originally posted by angel of lightangelo
You do not? Go talk to a jewish person for a minute and then get back to me.


The only lie is that Jesus is the only son of god. There are many, and were many before and after Jesus. Jesus even talks about others being so. In John 14:20 he plainly states that god is in each of us. It is only belief that you are the only one who is god that is a problem. It's all about consciousness and realizing our limited perception.

God in the full is basically the sum of all consciousness. So it is not something that can be fully represented in 1 man, nor is it anything we can actually perceive while under limited perception as it would ruin the limited perception/ you would cease to exist as an individual.

Thus why when you sin it is a sin "against god", not just something you did that was against the law. Because these are generally a result of infringing on anothers free will for your betterment over theirs.

Jesus even says and greater things than can you do.

As Jesus spoke the truth and showed people how to actually follow the commandments, and brought understandings that came from a direct and personal relationship with god, then he is basically god in the flesh. As long as speaking truth and giving understanding of that truth, then that is the same as being in front of god in the flesh. Because that is an understanding which is supressed in this world(look at what happened to Jesus) and can only come from god. Consciousness is what makes you able to perceive things and have understandings. In a universe that teaches and follows the laws of action and reaction(and thus, the bigger power rules over the weaker power). The rich man in the eyes of god is the man with wisdom, not the man with the most wordly powers. Jesus gives understanding that gives you wisdom, that is a gift from god, not a gift that this world gives.



Who are they? anyway? Only Christians believe Jesus and God are the same person. The problem is that not only Christians believe in the the same god from the old testament as them. So who are "they" and what makes Christians so arrogant as to believe that their severely altered story is the only right one?


They would be the mainstream Christians. All I am saying is that God comes before Satan and Jesus. If you see Jesus as being god, then Jesus comes before Satan. If you see Jesus as just a man as you do, then Satan comes before Jesus. Either way, the order is not what determines which philosophy is the right one. So lets just agree that what I've said accurately describes the reason for the disagreements and move on. Otherwise it's just going to be a back and forth he did it, no he did it thing.



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 06:05 AM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


So every single person is going to have their own belief and come to their own conclusion and this entire thread is completely pointless. I do not know why I keep reading it.



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 06:14 AM
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Originally posted by angel of lightangelo

So every single person is going to have their own belief and come to their own conclusion and this entire thread is completely pointless. I do not know why I keep reading it.


The bible says every man will think he is right. This is because if we thought we were wrong we would change our minds. We have our own unique and individual perspective on things. That's a part of having a unique and limited perspective.

The understandings we can get are the same, but our ways of expressing those understandings will change.

Have you ever heard the story of the blind men who are each allowed to touch an elephant, and each person touches a unique part of the elephant. After they all touch it, they all think the elephant is different things. 1 says like a rope after touching the trunk, another stays like a wall after touching it's side and so on. And so each took away their own piece of the elephant. So then they argued back and forth about what they elephant truly was. However, if they had instead discussed back and forth, then they could have gained better understanding of things for each others perspective.

When you are able to understand things from anothers perspective, then you are increasing your own perception of things, which will bring about new understanding. So for me, that is pretty much my reason for talking about these things, I like to hear other peoples perceptions of things and see if I can learn anything from it.

Discussion brings about understanding, understanding is a basic requirement for wisdom right after honesty.



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