Dow plunges 679 points

money.cnn.com...

Stocks sold off from the opening bell and continued sliding as the session wore on. The economic news and the official declaration of the recession added to the selling, but the market was already primed for a selloff after last week's run, analysts said.

December 1, 2008 3:53 PM EST

On CNBC, outspoken Oppenheimer banking analyst Meredith Whitney said consumer credit is the next shoe to drop. She said $1 trillion in consumer credit liquidity could be pulled.

On Citi (NYSE: C), Whitney said it may not have seen the worst even after the generous government rescue plan.

Meredith



[edit on 1-12-2008 by venividivici]

maybe the stock market was having a cyber monday sale

They did an impressive job artificially boosting both the market and consumer confidence in the week leading into Black friday. Now that we have the election and Black Friday behind us, I expect the true nature of this market will expose itself. God help us all if today was indicative of that true nature.

I just watched Laszlo Birinyi on MSNBC say "the market has bottomed". Aside from the fact he speaks like he is heavily medicated, IMHO he is a total moron. The market is headed for the basement and we haven't seen the worst yet!

I often wonder how much these talking heads are paid to put a positive spin on any given topic. I guess when you're a member of the elite, you have to do as the TPB orders.

S&P 500, Nasdaq, oil, gold and all EU markets also finished down.

"U.S. stocks slid the most since October, wiping out more than half of last week’s rally, on growing concern the global economic slump is deepening and consumers’ access to credit is shrinking." Source

IMO we are no where near the bottom,the market is being temporarily propped up to hold-off mass panic,i wish i was wrong but,lets face it the market is aflame and crashing and no amount of paper will help , get on with it.


[edit on 1-12-2008 by all2human]

Apparently the financials had the largest one day selloff in history.

I really don't know Paulson, but my gut feeling is that he's scared and confused. I had to change the channel. I wonder who else is going to get bailed out next? Did he even say anything that made sense? Not that I would understand him anyway.

How long before people barricade themselves in their homes with stockpiles of food and ammo?

I have been investing and basically gave up a while back listening to news and media when it comes to real and accurate market info. Sadly, I still must watch it to have an idea of where public perception stands because it has a massive affect on the market.

I am removing most of my long positions and buying ETFs that short the dow. I am specifically buying more and more funds that short the financial industry (or bet that it will go down).

The more down it goes, the more $ I make... It sucks to KNOW that this is whats going to happen when no one else does. So, to all believers of the "bleak outlook" that is coming to us this Jan/Feb, put your money where your mouth is.

Might as well capitalize with the king, right peasants?

reply to post by aleon1018


He had not choice but come out and talk today, as he finished talking about how the economy is so "ill" so the markets finished plunging for the day.

Who said that the bail out scam was to help anything, this the true in front of everybody eyes.

Even when Black Friday did so well for the day, we all know that the consumer confidence is very low and the markets opening down 300 tells that the winnings of Black Friday were nothing more than a one day wonder.

Let see what they numbers will look tomorrow.

The "bailout" was a fancy term for money laundering.

Just like the patriot act is NOTHING a patriot should stand for.

They names they attach to these massive crimes is absurd. I feel like they do it to the masses who just read the name and none of the content.

"Oh, Patriot Act? How could I be a nay-sayer and vote no or speak negatively of something entitled 'Patriot Act'."

Same with 'bailout' Speak negatively and suddenly you don't want to bail out our economy.financial institutions???

They need to be real and call it,

"prop-up a failing system that will still fall" (only with more momentum)

earlier today on Yahoo Financial news there WAS (notice that I can't find it now) that said that credit card companies are going to reduce the credit lines by 2 TRILLION dollars starting now into next year. Actually started already. My Chase was cut in half from 31K credit line to 15.5K, not that I plan on using it. This cut in credit will squeeze those without cash and jobs. I would also expect the physical money supply to start dropping like the Great Depression 1. Hold on to your cash, it will be hard to get like the 30's. Count on Mass hysteria by those tho can't get food. Welcome Mad Max, lock and load!

Originally posted by BostonBill99
I just watched Laszlo Birinyi on MSNBC say "the market has bottomed". Aside from the fact he speaks like he is heavily medicated, IMHO he is a total moron. The market is headed for the basement and we haven't seen the worst yet!

When the "experts" stop saying "the market has bottomed" - then we've reached the bottom. As long as they still have optimism that we're going back up soon, there is no capitulation and the markets will continue on their downward track.

I'm surprised that we fell as much as we did today, to be honest. We'll have to see what happens over the next couple weeks, but many indicators were pointing to a rally of sorts through the end of the year. There will be rallies and uptrends along the way to the bottom.

i agree with anachryon on most all points in last post

but one must remember alot of money is being shuffled into the U.S bond market and bond prices are increasing as yields fall to there lowest levels

stock market = 9 trillion bond market = 30 trillion

making money in the bond market is "risk free" right now do to the incestrious relationship between the fed and the treausury. Alot of the new money printed is being used to buy U.S gov't debt and this in turn helps bond yields drop. Smart investors realize this and buy the treasury's while the fed/treasury try to push yields down further out (5-10 year bills). Economist antal fekete is an economist who has talked about this phenomena and how it also occured during the great depression....yet is often overlooked for a few reasons (like maintaining at least healthy inflation expectations which is necessary for healthy spending/lending demand)

the fed is going to have to get a whole lot more creative with ways of re-inflating the economy and one thing they need to do is find someway, anyway to stop the foreclosures, give homeowners in trouble some relief and incentive to stay in there house, give homeowners who are making payments incentives to keep paying on time (more tax cuts)

one of the big issues in all of this is wether OPEC -USA relationship to price oil in petro dollars is sustained as oil prices drop and the gulf country's also have plans for a new currency by 2010. The petro dollar gives the U.S it's superpower status and when we lose that the military -finacial complex will really have it's legs cut out from underneath it with no recovery.

[edit on 1-12-2008 by cpdaman]

Just another day in paradise. IMO the market is being manipulated so that certain people can capitalize big time in the near future. Who says rich people don't know how to work the system. Once Obama says the magic words " I promise not to raise anybody's taxes" you will see the market take off.

I think someone will pull something out of thin air to keep things going through the holidays, but don't get to comfortable people. IMO once the earnings come out after the holidays, the rug is going to be pulled out from under our feet BIG TIME. I don't get why every time we have a couple of good days people start saying its over and everything is going to get better. The US has taken a serious beat down in the financial, housing, and employment sectors.. Its going to take more then an okay week to dig us out of this one...

Originally posted by cpdaman

but one must remember alot of money is being shuffled into the U.S bond market and bond prices are increasing as yields fall to there lowest levels

stock market = 9 trillion bond market = 30 trillion

making money in the bond market is "risk free" right now...

Right now, yes, but be careful with Ts and bonds.
]Marketwatch

The Fed could buy Treasury notes and bonds or agency bonds in a bid to drive yields lower and "spur aggregate demand," Bernanke said. Many analysts refer to such a policy as "quantitative easing," because the Fed would target a specific amount of money to flood into the economy.

Danger, Will Robinson. Danger.

reply to post by BostonBill99


They also said 12 months ago the economy has never been better, And every week since then have said "one bad bank, big deal, the economy is fine."

Turn off the tube.

Ill make it very simple. Bottom will be around DOW 4000 and gold within the next two years will be at least $10,000 per oz.

Originally posted by mybigunit
Ill make it very simple. Bottom will be around DOW 4000 and gold within the next two years will be at least $10,000 per oz.

I don't think we're going to come out of deflation within two years. Three to five years of deflation and/or stagnation are priced in right now, and we'd need some serious, serious inflation to see AU anywhere near $10k.

Goldbug.