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Was the abrahamic god the worst serial killer in human history?

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posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 09:13 AM
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Besides, he doesn't have to kill in the name of religion anymore.

There's already so many nut cases doing that out there he's pry just trying to keep up with the body count.

Can you imagine the traffic jams at the gates of heaven. "No wait you got the wrong name! That's not m..."

Not to mention those that claimed to have killed in god's name may have just used it as a cover. Just as we label a person as a terrorist now days and think we have the right to dispense of them.

Also how did they even know they were talking to god or was it all a cover to get rid of people they saw fit and to cover it with the fact that "oh god killed them because they were gay" type of attitude.

The only 2 things I couldn't argue with and have to say yes according to what we were told god killed them was the flood obviously and the lady turned to a pillar of salt. Ironically the flood is what put his death count way up there.

He tried the tough love approach and it didn't work so now he's tried the whole self esteem approach and that isn't working either. Only approach left is just to not bother having anymore kids.

God:, "I'm retiring who wants to take my spot!?"

20 million people me, me, me

"You there you never volonteered why!?"

"Um I don't want that kind of responsibility"

God: "Hey now there's someone who knows what he/she's talking about, congratulations you are now the one and only new god, where's my plane tickets I want out of this dump."



posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 09:29 AM
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I have a question for some of you .

Lets say you are the creator ..you created a being and that being was created to actually do good but there was also a negative side where if they chose to go with the negative there had to be some really severe consequences in order to get through to them that if you do these things the very worst case scenerio would happen .............keep in mind you created them to have choices and if they made the wrong choice there had to be severe consequences so that they would learn quickly before it caught them up in it forever (Reprobate) and they ended up being a really godless society (which we are there again now arent we ?) Which was the exact thing that was going on then when the children of Israel roamed about towards that promised land ...there was no LAWS of the land in the HEATHEN NATIONS .(The lands they passed through were savage peoples with no laws and no boundrys ) .NONE >>>..
And he went about killing and destroying and become so cold to murder and mayhem that he did not even care who got in his way or who he hurt ....

What would you do with that creation when they got out of control >?(Maybe recreate ? Maybe reprogram ?Maybe give them more chances ? what ?)
What rules or consequences would you make up to get them to see your serious and to see just how serious their wrong choices could lead to ?

I am serious here ..what would you do ?

Here is the link
www.belowtopsecret.com...

[edit on 5-12-2008 by Simplynoone]



posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by Simplynoone
 


Hello Simplynoon,

Great questions. The issue I see with the question though its what if its not about we were once good and then became bad. What if the experiences here are for growth, the bad ones and bad people having the same purpose as Gods adversary, to make us think and to test our strengths..what if its not about the idea of if one was apart of sin as so much as 'did they do more for others then themselves?' Were they able to shed the human ego, which is a part of the experience in a physical world, which helps the pure nature shines forth and humble acts then become secound nature. I do see it as a process that is already foretold so to say, all of Gods thoughts (us) is already played out in his mind, were just trying to find our way through the matrix. I dont see a God who was upset with Adam or Eve.

I dont see a God that is sitting around trying to decide what to do with us or how to handle us. I see us as very worthy to Thee and Thee is wanting us to know this so Thee can work through us as a true instrument without distortions of the human self so Thee's process can work out without such a long duration of time. I think Gods creatures are made to evolve, all of them, I think that evolution can be works of God and Thee knows the process of why this will work.

If one doesnt believe that God is sitting in heaven being upset with his creation, then its hard to see it from the point of view you presented. I hope you dont mind me adding my thoughts on why its hard for me to see where that question comes from, from my own view points.

Peace,
LV



posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 10:11 AM
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To clarify on my rambles


Yes, I see God working through what we would see as 'chances' but to Gods its a process of recycling that will bring all back to Thee.



posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 10:13 AM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


Leo there has to be something done or man will wipe eachother out eventually .

Please go to my link and post your thoughts ..putting yourself in his shoes watching from heaven what we are doing down here ............


PS ....All I hear is how God shouldnt do this ..or hasnt done that etc ..I hear nothing about HOW WE CAN FIX any of this mess we find ourselves in .....
I want to hear what YOU would do if you were him ..thats all ...........


[edit on 5-12-2008 by Simplynoone]



posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by SS,Naga
Indians? Heck, the good christians brought them peace & love, ya all know that.

First, they killed over a million of the unrestrainable ones; then they confiscated all their land (except a few tiny patches called reservations), then they outlawed their true religious belief/practices: Sun worship (this, in the land they declared 'freedom of religion').


Yes this is a very powerful (multi award winning) documentary dealing with just that-its highly disturbing but I think everyone should watch it as it affords quite a different view to the one usualy portrayed:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Cheers Karl



posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 11:40 AM
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This goes back to my belief that God is waiting on us...not us waiting on what God will do and how God will fix it.

It is scary to think that it lays on our shoulders and the fix might not be around the corner like most religions are predicting.



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by Simplynoone
All I hear is how God shouldnt do this ..or hasnt done that etc ..I hear nothing about HOW WE CAN FIX any of this mess we find ourselves in .....
I want to hear what YOU would do if you were him ..thats all ...........
[edit on 5-12-2008 by Simplynoone]


Well its interesting you just completely ignored the points about the absudity of a god creating virtues like benevolence and compassion who then chooses to completely disregard them (and instead prefers to wallow in vindictiveness and malevolence) but not to worry.

I'd point you towards this very honest and perceptive quote about the abrahamic god by Richard Dawkins:


"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully." - Richard Dawkins.


I'm sure a lot of people enjoy 'attacking the person but never addressing the facts' on this quote but ,if a person wants the bible to be taken literaly,then I think the above description of the book's main protagonist is a brutaly honest,inescapable conclusion.

As for your comments about how to fix all this mess we currently find ourselves in with regards to religion:maybe helping to cultivate the mindset that absolutely noone is more superior,saved,holy,special than anyone else might help.
Also just being good for goodnesses sake (instead of out of some selfish motivation for reward or punshment) is a good one.



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 09:48 AM
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reply to post by karl 12
 


Mao killed over 60 million

Stalin over 40 million

Hitler over 25 million

So much for your whole thread huh?



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 11:44 AM
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]
Mao killed over 60 million

Stalin over 40 million

Hitler over 25 million

So much for your whole thread huh?


Theres some quite impressive genocidal figures you've decided to post there-whats your point?
Are you saying that if you claim to have made the whole universe and everything in it,then you somehow are exempt from criticism and killing lots of folks is OK?
I think 33 million is still a hands down winner anyway.

I'd be interested to hear if you agree/disagree with Mr Dawkin's observation quoted above.



posted on Dec, 10 2008 @ 06:47 AM
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Originally posted by karl 12
if a person wants the bible to be taken literaly,then I think the above description of the book's main protagonist is a brutaly honest,inescapable conclusion.


just out of curiousity, how is fighting an army that is attacking your people monstrous or unjust?



posted on Dec, 10 2008 @ 01:27 PM
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One could argue, that the same way we can demolish an airplane we built of lego if we want, God can demolish what he created.

Ok we´re not lego, but in his eyes we may be just building blocks.



posted on Dec, 17 2008 @ 08:49 PM
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Note to all: You might want to subscribe to the following thread, for the origin and brutalilty involved in the inception of the bible is revealed...
www.abovetopsecret.com... (part I)
www.abovetopsecret.com... (part II)



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 12:44 AM
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Wow, some people need to take off the Rose Colored Goggles.

Look at the world around us. Look at everything from humans like Stalin and Mao, to species that are parasites and disease, and nature with its disasters.

Our entire existence and reality is filled with pain, suffering and death.

Every single one of us on ATS will die one day. No one escapes death. Our bodies, this flesh that encases us is finite. Everything in this reality is finite. Nothing lasts forever here. It dies, It decays and it rots.

This pain and suffering is finite.

G-d is infinite. Our physical existence in relation to G-d would be best described as virtual. In relation to G-d our physical reality is not much different than say a computer game like The Sims is to humans.

How many humans would call another human evil if he killed some of his Sims? Even if these little virtual Sims were intelligent would anyone call someone who played the game evil?

G-d is much more than a gamer though. G-d could be called the ultimate programmer and game master of what we call the physical universe. Our bodies are akin to avatars in a massive multi player program. If a game master kills a character, especially someone who cheated or violated the rules, would anyone accuse him of being evil?

Lets try living things. Am I Evil for using pesticides and herbicides? Am I evil for killing thousands of ants and wiping out entire colonies? Are farmers evil for harvesting myriads of fruits and vegetables? Are loggers evil for cutting down trees? Am I evil for washing my hands with soap, resulting in mass genocide of bacteria? Is Lysol Evil?

As one can see our definition of Evil is Subjective. It is limited by our perspective as Finite and Lower creatures. Who are we as finite and lesser beings to define anything? We are blinded by our ignorance. Our reality and existence is filled with paradox. Our Linear and Finite minds cannot handle ultimate truth. The closer we get to the Ultimate, the more our sanity fragments and dissolves. We seek refuge in the darkness of our ignorance. As finite and lesser beings we cannot fathom the Infinite. We turn away from the Truth and deny it, out of fear and horror of our position within the universe.

Our position is less than that of bacteria to humanity. Our position is less than a virtual character is to a computer programmer. We are so infinitesimal and G-d so infinite that we simply cannot measure or understand, as physical beings, the gulf between the Creator and the created.

We, as physical beings are not totally lost and helpless. We have some sparks of knowledge. What we define as spirit and soul are really who we are. Our immersion into physical existence has obscured our spiritual natures. We forget who we really are and what really matters in the end, but we can rediscover that knowledge.

Obsessing ourselves with physical death and suffering only blinds us. We blind and distract ourselves from knowledge by trying to put a Supreme Being on our level, as if G-d is our equal. We are less equal to G-d than slime mold is equal to us.

For people seeking knowledge don't let fear and paradox lead you to blindness. Embrace that fear and paradox. Let it guide you to wisdom.

"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" (Prov. 1:7)

In the end we may not understand everything, which we can't do as physical beings, but we will have faith. Faith that derives from sparks of spiritual truth, our ultimate natures, G-d's compassion, concern and love for us. Even though at times it is difficult to understand, it can be quite clear at times that G-d's love, mercy and compassion is far beyond what any human is capable of. Even when dealing with our finite physical reality, G-d is far more benevolent than any human dictator, warlord, or totalitarian government.



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 05:12 AM
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"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" (Prov. 1:7)


I'd argue that the fear of god is a man made invention and the beginning of a form of mental slavery.
We al know people are far mor easier to control,influence,manipulate,condition,indoctrinate and brainwash when they are fearful or scared.
I think it boils down to fear based on superstition and ignorance-when cavemen heard/saw the first thunder and lightning they probably would have been terrified by the unknown phenomena and ascribed it to some vague,ambiguous,vengeful tribal god being unhappy with them.

Once rational,reasonable,analytical thought was brought to bear on the meteorlogical phenomenon then the fear (and the god) was banished to the realms of irrational superstitious beleif.

If fear of god was a normal (and unanimous) condition of man then we would still be cowering in caves.

"Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense". ~Chapman Cohen

As for the abrahamic mythologies,I found this paragraph by John Hartung to be very honest:


"The bible is a blueprint of in-group morality,complete with instructions for genocide,enslavement of out groups,and world domination.
But the bible is not evil by virtue of its objectives or even its glorification of murder,cruelty and rape.
Many ancient works do that-the Iliad, the Icelandic sagas, the tales of the ancient Syrians and the inscriptions of the ancient Mayans,for example.
But noone is selling the Iliad as a foundation for morality.
Therein lies the problem."







[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 06:30 AM
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reply to post by karl 12
 


Its funny how people interpret different things.

Fear can lead one to question and seek understanding. We fear natural disasters, we fear death, and ultimately we fear the unknown.

This fear of the unknown leads humanity on a quest for knowledge and understanding. The fear of G-d is no different. In fact G-d more or less is synonymous with the Unknown.

Fear of the Unknown is a healthy fear. It leads to exploration and discovery. This fear of G-d should be understood as not just typical fear but a type of Cosmic Fear or Awe. The kind of awe one would have before the might of a Black Hole or Supernova, bringing about a state of humility involving our minute position within the universe. Ignoring our position within the universe could be seen as extreme hubris.

We understand the raw power of hurricanes, we fear that power. If someone tries to manipulate people based on that fear it has nothing to do with the hurricane, but more to do with the immoral and manipulative nature of humans.

Human manipulation through fear does not mean that the power of a hurricane is any less real or terrifying either. It just means people are good at manipulating other people using whatever tool at hand.

Don't be controlled by fear. Know it and understand it. Don't reject fear for hubris. Hubris seems more like a state of mental illness than any cosmic awe of the Unknown.



[edit on 18/12/08 by MikeboydUS]



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 06:34 AM
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Originally posted by theindependentjournal
reply to post by karl 12
 


Mao killed over 60 million

Stalin over 40 million

Hitler over 25 million

So much for your whole thread huh?


This means god is ranked somewhere between Hitler and Stalin?

I don't understand your point..



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by nj2day
Mao killed over 60 million

Stalin over 40 million

Hitler over 25 million



OK its a close call with the abrahamic god coming in a close third.

I don't think any of them deserves praise do you?

I think they should be locked up-not looked up to.

Also, if we're going to be pernickety about numbers lets not forget all the deaths caused directly by gods 'inaction'...not to mention all the true beleivers who have thirsted after blood in His name down the years.

I wonder how you feel about the statement below as you have not realy addressed any of the other issues in this thread and just pointed out death number discrepencies.

Here it is,if you do agree/disagree with it then why?

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."


[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 



Even Christ didnt fight....and we make up excuses for why he didnt....he will be back to finish his unfinished business ect.....

But was it more then that...could it of been that Jesus never intends to fight anyone with how we see fighting. What if this war will have to be played out through the people until we finally see...this gets us no where as a planet of a intelligent species.

To fight for your life here....means your not trusting your eternal life and you feel the right to become unrighteous due to defense for this fleshy life. The ones who went down with a fight through love and peace are the ones that remained righteous. Those actions speak louder then actions of justifying war. Mabey, just as well, these actions speak louder in heaven as well. Just a thought...

So do you fight....or turn the other cheek...having faith that this is the only way to remain righteous for your eternal life. It is a tough call indeed.

Im not saying war wont be, because it obviously is. But even if a leader begins to lead the world in a united way that is based on protecting all cultures and the environment of the Earth...many will refuse this idea because they are already programed to not accept it due to the fear placed in the Bible of the anti christ.

If people want to focus fear on something, need to look no further then a 'god' who enjoys the savor of blood. But...many dont like to look down that rabbit hole, they are more comfortable making excuses for why this is so and why god needs this blood because there is comfort in thinking they have found truth. There is one problem...truth, is never ending...its always changing with our evolving, some things become more clear, and then, we find, some things are not what we thought they were.

We must think critically.

If half of the world believes that a war must come in order for god to come save them...then surely, the war WILL come...its not hard to see. I am one of those that fear the ones waiting on the war because there...no hope is found.

Just thoughts,
LV



posted on Dec, 19 2008 @ 10:41 PM
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Did you ever consider that all these "deaths" attributed to God in the OT are just the authors' perspectives?

You know .... like when 2 sides war and they both believe that God is on their side, and then when they win they say, "Yeah God was on our side and helped us win."

History is written by the winners.

But the losers say, well we lost, we ,must have done something to displease God because we lost the war. Lets go back and rethink what we did wrong.

The whole time God, in reality never chose sides, loves all, within all and all within God.

Also Bible isn't all literal, its also symbolic, poetic, record keeping, observations, opinions, and so on.

Im not defending anything here, as I am myself a Christian Mystic and I found it rather interesting to learn that quite a few early Christian Gnostic groups also believed that the God of the OT was a demigod whereas the God of the NT is the true God.

Either way, fom reading the NT I received Spiritual Enlightenment. The greatest experience of my life. Dont miss out



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