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OK, so UFO's are what?

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posted on Nov, 29 2008 @ 09:54 PM
Don’t want to rain on your parade, but I have to disagree with the premise of your” study.”

The question of what UFOs are is not amenable to one answer or proof. Even the ultimate skeptic, the U. S. Air Force, acknowledged 40 years ago that a significant percentage of the sightings it was willing to discuss were” unexplainable.”

I will grant you this: They are, for the most part, intelligently operated air/space craft.

As subsets of course, you have alien technology, drones, experimental aircraft, et c.

Why do I believe this?

Among many others, I have considered the opinions of respected writers and investigators. These are not people who tell of trips to Venus or Alpha Centauri. They haven’t posted video on You-Tube or CNN, or pushed agendas on “Coast-to-Coast or, et al.

Start with the man who fought the USAF over Blue Book and official suppression of information. Captain Edward Ruppelt was head of USAF UFO investigations in the early 1950s. After leaving in frustration, he joined Northrop Aviation and, later, published his account of USAF investigations, suppression, and disinformation: “The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects,” (Doubleday, 1956).

French UFO researcher Jacques F. Vallee, Ph.D., has written extensively on this and other subjects, but his “Challenge to Science: The UFO Enigma,” (H. Regnery, 1966) is widely considered to be among the best books ever written on the subject.

Another former Air Force officer, Maj. Donald Keyhoe, USAF, Ret., earned the enmity of his former employers by continually exposing government programs aimed not so much at investigation as at obfuscation of the UFO issue. The first of a series of his, “The Flying Saucers Are Real,” (Fawcett, 1950) appears to set up your premise. One of his best selling books on the subject, “Aliens From Space,” (Doubleday, 1973), seems to answer your initial question.

Finally, Richard M. Dolan has written what many consider to one of the most important books ever written in this field, “UFOs and the National Security (Hampton Roads, 200 rev. ed.), in which he outlines and examines government involvement in, and denial of, the investigation of UFOs as real, physical phenomena, and more.

Moreover, as we ourselves treat lower species, down to ants and bacteria, so I believe we are being treated by those civilizations that have visited us through the ages. The biggest difference, though, is that we became self-aware and capable of conscious intelligence, probably much to our visitors’ satisfaction or surprise.

I can't give you percentages, but the UFOs I'd be most concerned about are someone else's, not our own.

Good thread. Good luck.

[edit on 29-11-2008 by jdub297]

posted on Nov, 29 2008 @ 09:57 PM
reply to post by Quazze

I'm pretty sure that's not how Occam's Razor works.

[edit on 29-11-2008 by cognoscente]

posted on Nov, 29 2008 @ 10:00 PM
I personally believe that UFOs are both from other planets as well as government tests.

if they were all hoaxes, then there are some damn good CG hoaxers at every corner

posted on Nov, 29 2008 @ 10:01 PM

Originally posted by mmiichael

The sub-industry that has grown around UFOs and the dubious characters associated with it has tainted the whole notion of extraterrestrial visitations.

There may be lifeforms with intelligence that don't function within the same compacted molecular framework that we as manmmals do. They could be like a complex computer program, a vast assemblage of interacting atomic particles that would only be detectable on a powerful microscope.

The most successful lifeform on our planet, bacteria, are only aware of us as a moving part of their environment that is a rich source of residence and nutrition. Maybe bacteria just make us do what we do to create new and different opportunities for them.

I'm open to anything. I do not think there are Greys of the current model of big head/big eyes developed infant types out there in saucer shaped ships that move across the skies but avoid contact. That's too naive to expect.

The big problem will be even recognizing when we are dealing with another intelligence and finding ways to communicate with it.

Mike F

I like Mike's way of thinking. It is logical and probable. Michio Kaku once said that the future of mankind is to place small robots on a moon and/or planet that can reproduce and manufacture themselves to create other robots [they will build millions of themselves], which in turn could build factories and other substainable facilities for "mankind" to live on.

As mentioned in my previous post, it is so difficult for me to believe that flesh and blood Aliens are visiting our planet. The distance is too great and we are not that significant [since life thrives all around the Universe]. We, as human beings, want to feel important and significant, but in truth we are nothing but just another biological entity. I am a gambling man with elite logic, and if I put all my chips on the table, I would bet that if crafts are visiting our planet, they are certainly programmed (robot or cloned) to be immune to the biological bacteria forces that swarm our planet [I strongly believe Grey's are cloned entities (EBE's)].

While we are somewhat suppressing opinions of others, I do wish to state that Mike's wording is of sound nature. If anything is visiting us, it is programmed and developed to relay important date of just another planet with life trying to survive.

To the OP: Sorry for the video posting, but it makes so much sense toward this topic.

posted on Nov, 29 2008 @ 10:09 PM
I do believe that there is much more out there we cannot grasp and understand, yet, in my opinion we all made contact already with different kind of beings, in our dreams... those may look like ETS as we know or dont know, family members, friends or other people one got to know over time.... The key of really getting to know other species than us from another planet/dimension is to look within us, our "soul", which contains much more information of our creation and our being than anyone could think of, speaking in terms of endless and more.

Human always needs physical evidence, but the most majority of being and living plays within the 4th dimension and beyond... Until human wont get conscious of this, ETs wont do any good in terms of understanding and getting to know them better.

Free your mind and free your soul, and then you wont even wonder about the fact that there is much more life and wonders out there than we used to predict.

Knowledge is endless, as everything else is that "is"

posted on Nov, 29 2008 @ 10:19 PM
Great thread, S@F, but I have one problem with it. You must accept multiple answers from one person. Here is my answer.

I believe most UFOs are just everyday events that look funny from a perspective.

I believe some are Top Secret Projects.

I believe very few if any are extra terrestrial craft.

I believe the universe is too immense for us to be "it". I also believe that if another civilization were to come here they would care less about preserving our beliefs or ability to accept them. Ancient humans believed in gods in the sky, extra terrestrial beings dont seem that scary compared to some of that #. I think they are out there but they either dont care about us or dont know about us. They probably cruise by now and then but there is probably no real benefit to them coming here. Anything this planet has they can probably access easier using their technology.

I must say I am sorry to see that people cannot accept your wishes and keep the debate out of this particular thread. Of course, we both knew that would last 3 replies from the get go, right?

[edit on 29-11-2008 by shug7272]

posted on Nov, 29 2008 @ 10:27 PM
In keeping with the infinite universe idea, there absolutely has to be other forms of life out there, and have been around for a hell of alot longer than us. So the idea of evolution comes into play when the idea that a race or multiple races have been evolving for aeons of time past our little blink of an eye, then an advanced race or races is a probability.
Then the idea that a race or races might want to explore comes into play and they happen across our zip code or parsec, and decide to check things out here, take in the sights you know. Then the evidence of possible interaction throughout history leads one to think that yes they have been here for a very long time (as we know time). Would it be so terrible to meet our neighbors? People do that everyday, cake and coffee is usually involved and handshaking a sharing of ideas and opinions and hedge clippers and the like.
I look at the world and all the **** we are dealing with and sometimes I wonder about this concept... What if everything that was taught about our history and the past is a lie passed on from generation to generation just to keep us in the dark about who we really are and where we came from and where we are going to, and the real teachers have been and are arriving in vast numbers. Maybe we should listen to them and to ourselves our feelings. Sometimes I think about the year 2000 as the beginning of a universal 12 step program and that the PTB are trying to rig the outcome because they are scared that they will not be going along for the ride. I say this is going to be one hell of an adventure and am way looking forward to it.

posted on Nov, 29 2008 @ 10:37 PM
My opinion, for what it's worth, is that there is still not enough good evidence to determine what the real UFOs are. Yeah, after many decades, I'm pretty convinced that there is a small core of UFO experiences that simply defy explanation as possible misidentifications, hallucinations, or hoaxes.

But I have no idea what they are. A lot of people like to believe they're alien space craft, however, there's no good evidence to support that contention. I like the time travelers idea. But there's no good evidence to support that contention, either.

A lot of people like the alien idea, though, because it's simple. Unfortunately, to make that notion work you have to throw out an awful lot of UFO and abductee cases where really, really weird stuff happens that even goes beyond the simple notion of aliens in space ships. The deeper you go into the literature, way beyond the flying triangles, the stranger things get. And if you're going to look for answers, you can't cheat. You can't just toss out the bizarre cases just because they are too weird and don't fit the hypothesis.

After many decades, I've come to wonder if perhaps these things aren't some kind of naturally occurring manifestation of the permeability of spacetime as it relates to consciousness. If modern quantum mechanics has taught us anything, it's that conscious observation is necessary for the universe to exist. Every conscious, living thing works together to collapse a quantum wave function and separate reality from an infinite number of virtual possibilities. UFOs (along with many other "paranormal" things, including demons, ghosts, elves, leprechauns, Bigfoot, etc.) may represent a kind of "leakage" between our reality and other virtual possibilities, including those of our own future.

Imagine that spacetime is like a bubbling pot of water, only working in a dozen or so dimensions. Separate bits of time and space churn around in the pot in all directions. Sometimes bits bubble up to the surface, and become real, or bounce into each other, depending on how much energy they might have, or who is doing the observing.

For the most part, in our limited perception of things, things seem to move along normally without a lot of surprises. We all anticipate our immediate future to be consistent with what we perceive as our present. But every once in a while, enough living things agree on a conscious or subconscious level to let something exist that wouldn't ordinarily exist. Maybe the virtual consciousnesses (the aliens or demons or whatever) even play a part in their own creation and manifestation. Then a UFO or Bigfoot will appear. But since they don't "belong" here, they can't stay. They "vanish," back into the virtual soup.

I'm sure I don't understand the mechanism of how this might work. There's no mathematical formula that would allow this to happen. So in the end, it's all just conjecture. There are some kinds of experiments being done with this idea, but the results remain inconclusive.

Anyway, as I always say when this subject pops up here, I think if most or all of the UFO sightings could eventually be explained as Star Trek-type aliens from other planets, who are pretty much like us, flying little nuts-and-bolts space ships around, I think that would be pretty disappointing and boring. And I think anyone who really and truly believes the ET hypothesis can explain it all shows a very sad lack of imagination.

Which goes back to my original opinion, which is that I (we) really don't have enough good evidence to discount anything, which is the same thing as saying, "We don't know." We know something's happening, but we have very few clues, and nothing definitive, as to what it is.

posted on Nov, 29 2008 @ 10:41 PM
very simpley, all UFOS were extraterestrial in origin 50 years ago, but now i belive that more then half of them seen today are re-engineered ET spacecraft, why they are kept from the public eye is a topic of another thread but too many people have seen them, touched them and worked on them........then......came out with there storys and told everybody and some people are very credible

just my 2 cents safe people

posted on Nov, 29 2008 @ 10:42 PM
reply to post by Alter-Ego

My thoughts are that in a world full of camera and video phones one would think there would be more pictorial evidence of UFO’s.
Not to say that there is (not) life else where in the universe.
The vast distances to be traveled make a visit here unlikely.
Also (why) come here. It would be like me wanting to vacationDetroit. in the winter.

posted on Nov, 29 2008 @ 10:45 PM
Huh? Where is this evidence? I havn't seen one video or picture that is a confirmed UFO. People will just believe what they want to believe I guess.

posted on Nov, 29 2008 @ 10:53 PM
It seems apparent to me that the many different kinds of sighting cannot be explained away by atmospheric or meteorological phenomena.

Also the idea that they are simply some psychological delusion on the part of many is hard for me to accept, particularly when more than one person witnesses the same UFO.

The idea that there are angels/demons/extra-dimensional beings just floating about in the sky also seems absurd.

Therefore I believe they are hard, physical objects. Which in turn leads to two quite worrying scenarios. Either they are Extraterrestrial in origin or just very advanced (really quite staggeringly advanced) secret fighters of Earth origin.

Either way they represent some kind of threat. UFO sightings are universal, which means if they are terrestrial craft the nation which has developed them (and we all must accept that the USA is the only real viable option for said nation) is willfully and unlawfully invading the Air Defence Regions of nearly all other recognized states.

Even if they are Extra-terrestrial in nature, the fact remains that we remain, in most cases ignorant to penetration of our Air Defence Regions and in the rare cases in which some response has been made in report to a UFO sighting, completely incapable of matching their performance.

posted on Nov, 29 2008 @ 10:56 PM
There's not must else that we can do expect for:

1. Push for the US government to come clean about UFOs and Aliens.

2. Gather as much proof that we can

Without more higher tech we are left to do those two things.

posted on Nov, 29 2008 @ 10:58 PM
ok, just a stated opinion and a reason for it? Fair enough.

I was initially just rather bored, and surfing round the net when I came across the disclosure project. Up until then, I was merely open to the idea, without having formed any firm opinions about it. So I began to read.

I read through much, and watched the 'documentary' about it on YouTube. Then I went further afield, and wandered around the internet looking for more information. Because if there have truly been that many sightings of strange unidentifiable objects and/or craft in the skies of the world - surely there would be some kind of evidence. And there was... for those willing to believe. In truth it always boils down to what you believe, and the most open-minded of people safely conclude that they are sure of what the evidence is NOT.

So in my humble opinion, I believe there are definitely UFO's appearing in our skies - some of which have a standard shape (cigar, triangle, saucer) and others that appear as strange light phenomena. I believe this to be true, as even if half of the testimonies I have read about are hoax's, it would still leave half who are not.

(Which brings me to a question I should start a thread about, what person in their right mind would want to make a hoax about an alien or UFO encounter??)

Non-human living beings. That's what I believe are behind most of the UFO encounters. The lights however, I'm utterly undecided about. Could be natural scientific explanations. Could be beings on their own. Can't be sure till I see that one for myself.
I am fully prepared to believe that some of the craft are human in origin - after all, our governments are so open and revealling about all their new weaponry and new military prowess, aren't they?

But that's my humble opinion.

posted on Nov, 29 2008 @ 11:14 PM
While all of you are being distracted be top secret aircraft and decades old misdirection and false information your country is being taken from you right before your eye, your money too!

There are no such things as UFO, or beings from outter space!

If you are smart enough to research this, redirect your focus on the corrupt individuals sitting in your government.

Defend your country against all enemies, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC!!

Eye of Eagle

posted on Nov, 29 2008 @ 11:22 PM

# Are UFO's are a reality-



# UFO's are widely believed to represent-

A mixture of our own technology and alien/other world technology.


# What is the purpose or cause of this phenom-

Kind of a weird question. Curiosity would be my guess.


# What are the ramifications of these findings if any-

Well, let's start with the obvious. What happened when JFK was shot? How about the WTC? Many theories, but the lack of a formal plausible answer from formal channels (government, news, etc.) creates too many answers and thus, everyone knows something is wrong about the official story, but without an observer that has access to all information available, a likely scenario cannot be published. Why don't the proper authorities release the truth - pure manipulation of the public.

So, I side-tracked, but it shows that anything that gets published, even within our relative reality would be ignored because you cannot pin down one solid fact.

So what is the truth?

Here's my theory - first, we are beings that occupy bodies. We have developed a civilization built on generation after generation of knowledge, some of it false. So, why can't beings like us develop in a similar manner with a different genetic makeup due to conditions and available gene pools on other planets? No reason, that's what I think these other aliens are.

Who ever got the idea that carbon dating has any relevance on the decay time of living organisms. Another interesting side-comment, but I think the universe is a lot older than we think - in the billions. I don't think it takes a being billions of years to manipulate and develop a gene pool to the point of creating a cognitive life form. So some civilizations are much, much older than our level of technology.

But wait, there was a comment about making it through the 'nuclear development' stage without blowing up. What happens if you don't make it through. If we are truly beings occupying bodies, then we just start over again, right? Per my theory/idea anyways. So what if WE have done this before, over and over and over again? Perhaps that's why everyone agrees on what 'modern' or 'futuristic' designs, architecture and items are. New is not futuristic, it has a specific quality, style and architecture type. Interesting.

This of course opens possibilities to aliens being 'us' or 'relatives' from earlier civilization curves or cycles, or just plain other development cycles with the same 'beings'.

Ok, that is a lot to digest, but let's get back to the UFO's.

Why is it that there are so many sightings and evidence, but it all sucks and proves nothing? I have two comments on this. 1. It seems bizarre that not one shred of completely credible evidence exists. The notes at the top explain why we don't have this formally on proper communication channels, perhaps there is and it just gets lost in all the different opinions as covered above as well. I really like Has some interesting scientific developments and a plausible theory with a hint of alien flavor to explain where he got it from and then some other stuff. Still, no hard evidence, just some good science that seems to go beyond anything we know as Joe Public. 2. Perhaps the nature of the technology itself to travel between stars creates enough distortion to alter the photos. They move fast, they definitely are manipulating gravity. Warping gravity should warp space-time and light, and oh look, photos and video too.

I think we will know about them when they do something formal and decide to do so. If the government has anything, they either can't figure out how to tell us how far they have advanced, or have been ordered to shut up. As above, any leaks would get lost in the randomness of truth off of formal channels and would be ignored. I do find it hard to believe that they have not made a big mistake yet though and revealed themselves.

I don't think THEY care - we are a dumping ground.

posted on Nov, 29 2008 @ 11:31 PM

Originally posted by Nohup

Which goes back to my original opinion, which is that I (we) really don't have enough good evidence to discount anything, which is the same thing as saying, "We don't know." We know something's happening, but we have very few clues, and nothing definitive, as to what it is.

I wish I had time to comment on this entire post, as my beliefs at this time almost identically mirror your own. The 'meat and potatoes' of this thread, is to compile a working data base to try and better isolate some of this phenoms idiosyncrasies and put it into some form of usable reference material.

While opinions vary greatly, the trend Im seeing so far is that most people tend to think of them as "extra-terrestrials". I have had personal experiences with this phenoms "high weirdness" factor and know many more people who have seen far more bizzare things than I have! Which lead my conclusions elsewhere. Anything is possible.

Im looking forward to compiling this info and submitting it back to this community, for further discussion and debate. There is no better forum suited for this research and the input so far has been astounding and enlightening.

I sincerely appreciate EVERYONES views and I am glad that others see the potential of this important step in UFOLOGY... to accept that something is out there interacting with us and our planet or our perceptions... its time to move forward.

EVOLVE, if you will with me and take the next evolutionary step towards finding an answer for OUR SELVES.. and quit relying or waiting for someone else to "disclose" what we may already know..

posted on Nov, 29 2008 @ 11:35 PM
ufos are real, now what? basically we have to just wait and see what they are doing here and who (or what) they are and where do they come from.

even with the government trying so hard to keep ufo disclosure quiet (even though even people are beginning to realize the realty that ufos are real) I think that whatever message they are trying to get to or show to us will become clear one way or another just for the fact of their being so much evidence (throughout history theres so much its ridiculous) and reports coming in and obviously because of the technology I'm sure they will have no problem letting us know their intentions.

we really are living in crazy times right now sometimes I feel like the things that are happening in the world are from a sci-fi movie but its not, its actually happening. I've pretty much realized that SOMETHING (whether it be the end of the world or some kind of dimensional/vibrational shift/consciousness shift) is coming in 2012 and that gets me to thinking how we really are just simply people on this planet just HERE in an infinite universe(s) not really having a true understanding of what nature and reality is WHY we are here and I think that with ufos becoming accepted as a reality and after making official contact we will finally be able to answer the question of why things are what they are show us things beyond our wildest imagination. what a great time to be alive the next few years are gonna be interesting without a doubt.

posted on Nov, 29 2008 @ 11:45 PM
Let's categorize this in terms of WHO observed the UFO.....

random civilian, no flying/aircraft/pilot experience - they could report balloons, lanterns, planes, military aircraft/or secret military experiment, stars, planets, and comets as UFO's

experienced pilots - most likely observing secret military aircraft as UFO's

military officials, qualified military personnel/pilots - when these people report UFO's especially the cases flying over military bases they are observing Alien Spacecraft

Astronauts- observing alien spacecraft as UFO's other explanation

posted on Nov, 29 2008 @ 11:52 PM
Here is my take on the UFO thing.

i lean more towards Time Travel, than i do creatures from another world.

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