President Bush Ruined the economy!!

^^^^^^^
in total agreement with the above. Im glad you arent a slave to political ideology, a trait which I wish I had more of. I am a product of my generation, true, but I know that as Ive gotten older, I find myself saying things and standing for things I never thought I would in my ideological youth. Anyway, I applaud your clear headed assessment of the facts, thank you.

reply to post by crimvelvet

Senator Obama sure does have it easy come January. He could do absolutely nothing right for the next 4(maybe 8) years and all the blame will be handed to President Bush.

reply to post by Dodecahedral

You and others want to defend Bush because he has a R next to his name and I can care less if it was a republican or a democrat. If anyone borrows and spends like this it's bad for this country especially while we are in a global economy. People trying to make excuses for this irresponsible behaviour are part of the problem.

I do not think anyone is defending Bush. What I am reading is that the situation is much more complex than just the Bush admin. policies. You have to go back decades and untangle the threads to really understand what has actually happened. Bashing Bush is very simplistic and leaves us as a country open for more manipulation by TPTB.

The hemorrhaging of US jobs and the flood of tainted food and drugs due to Clinton's support of the World trade Organizations Free Trade policies is an example.

Originally posted by irishgrl
I personally hope Obama taxes the mega-Multinational Corporations who have outsourced all the jobs in search of the almighty profit margin.

Newsflash. The corporations that were dealt crushing taxes have left the country - taken their products and their jobs elsewhere. There is nothing left of them to tax. They have been crushed. This destructive mentality is part of the reason for job loss in this country.

Originally posted by irishgrl
Bull#.

You are new here so let me direct you to the T&C of this site.
No profanity.

ACORN is no more responsible for this mess than you or I. Neither is Obama. And pointing fingers at Barney Frank is scapegoat mentality.

It's not scapegoat mentality to place the blame where it belongs. It's the truth. You obviously didn't read the links and educate yourself or you would see, very clearly, that this financial mess isn't the 'sole responsibility of the republicans'. There are many people and organizations that deserve to be pointed at.

I'm tired of presenting the facts and truth of the situation to you only to have them ignored and to have to hear 'it's all the republicans fault' drivel.

I'm not going to bother any longer.

Enjoy your delusion. :shk:

reply to post by irishgrl


I personally hope Obama taxes the mega-Multinational Corporations who have outsourced all the jobs in search of the almighty profit margin. I hope that every company who takes their operations offshore is taxed heavily to be able to sell back in the US. on EVERY item. I also hope that the rust belt is brought back to life, that small farmers are given autonomy over their own farms again.

Amen to that. I would like to see us get out of the World Trade organization all together. If a transnational company operating overseas, does not meet USA standards for EPA,OSHA, FDA, USDA... then the goods should not be imported. If the transnational has ANY offices in the USA and he does not meet US standards overseas the company should be FINED!!

USA workers are having to compete with overseas slave labor. Foreigners are brought from overseas to take American jobs because they will work for less. What really bothers me is that the Labor stats do not show how many Americans are really out of work. If you have not worked for six months or have been forced to work spotty contracts, you are not counted as "unemployed" That is most of the baby boomers over the age of 45. I can not think of one older friend over 45 and under 65 who is employed, can you??

sorry your blaming of bush on everything going in in todays world is just your liberal agenda trying to move forward. it is a well known fact that the community reinvestment act of 1978 under jimmy carter started the downfall of todays economy. the bubble finally bursted 30 years later

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by Dodecahedral

 

You and others want to defend Bush because he has a R next to his name and I can care less if it was a republican or a democrat. If anyone borrows and spends like this it's bad for this country especially while we are in a global economy. People trying to make excuses for this irresponsible behaviour are part of the problem.

I do not think anyone is defending Bush. What I am reading is that the situation is much more complex than just the Bush admin. policies. You have to go back decades and untangle the threads to really understand what has actually happened. Bashing Bush is very simplistic and leaves us as a country open for more manipulation by TPTB.

The hemorrhaging of US jobs and the flood of tainted food and drugs due to Clinton's support of the World trade Organizations Free Trade policies is an example.

Free trade didn't have anything to do with this.

Under Free Trade we move from a producer based economy to a consumer based economy.

This means other countries will hold or debt as we consume their goods.

So we borrow and consume and you get more entrepreneurs and people making money on the internet and in real estate and some people moving to the service sector.

This also means that government spending has to be controlled because our debt has to stay below our consumption.

This is directly under the feet of President Bush because he did nothing to control spending while increasing the scope and size of government.

These things have bulit up over 8 years of massive borrowing and spending.

Peope have not realized the benefits of free trade because jobs have moved overseas but that has opened up room for you to borrow and open up a business or invest in real estate or move to the service sector.

Bush has destroyed this with massive borrowing and spending and now we have to produce our way out of debt.

I madea pretty penny from investing in real estate and I'm glad I saved when I saw Bush was borrowing and spending like crazy and increasing debt.

Originally posted by irishgrl
^^^^^^^
in total agreement with the above. Im glad you arent a slave to political ideology, a trait which I wish I had more of. I am a product of my generation, true, but I know that as Ive gotten older, I find myself saying things and standing for things I never thought I would in my ideological youth. Anyway, I applaud your clear headed assessment of the facts, thank you.

Thanks irishgrl,

People are still playing politics and this blinds them. I'm a conservative and what Bush did looked nothing like conservatism when it came to economics except cutting taxes.

The massive borrowing and spending was irresponsible.

reply to post by rizla

Elsewhere in the world, it is not a derogatory term. The USA has become so right-wing it is getting scary.

Where did you get that from?? Since I was a kid, we now have Welfare, EPA, OSHA, Medicaid, Animal Rights types roaming the landscape confiscating animals from their owners and hitting them with huge fines, No more horse slaughter, the Animal Welfare Act, and 14% of the workers employed by the US government. That does not sound like it is real right wing. Actually I would discribe our current state as fascist. not right wing.

I thought the Right Wings wanted the Constitution, and private property rights upheld, people to work for a living instead of an 18 year old collecting welfare for her six kids or the guy I know who is collecting from his 52 kids since the moms are on welfare.

Do I have my definitions wrong?

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by rizla

 

Elsewhere in the world, it is not a derogatory term. The USA has become so right-wing it is getting scary.

Where did you get that from?? Since I was a kid, we now have Welfare, EPA, OSHA, Medicaid, Animal Rights types roaming the landscape confiscating animals from their owners and hitting them with huge fines, No more horse slaughter, the Animal Welfare Act, and 14% of the workers employed by the US government. That does not sound like it is real right wing. Actually I would discribe our current state as fascist. not right wing.

I thought the Right Wings wanted the Constitution, and private property rights upheld, people to work for a living instead of an 18 year old collecting welfare for her six kids or the guy I know who is collecting from his 52 kids since the moms are on welfare.

Do I have my definitions wrong?

100% right. im "right wing" and i believe in all the things you said.

reply to post by seagull


But, actually what does a vote count? In my own district we had a certain congressman arrested because he and his cronies were at every poll proselytizing his party and telling people they were Un-American and traitors if they voted for any of the other party. The majority of the voting machines had problems counting and it some instances counted backwards. In many of the poor districts all the machines were down and those people did not get to vote.

In many cases people had to stand outside in the rain for hours because one machine would be repaired and when it would start counting backwards or some other oddity such as touchscreen malfunction that voted for just anyone they would shut it down again and call a repairman. In district 5 of Spartanburg all the voting machines strangely died.

The electronic voting machines themselves are illegal because under SC laws the citizens are supposed to be able to see the votes counted. When this is brought up the story goes that of course the citizens can see the vote being counted on TV.

This would not be so disturbing if it were a local thing but, this goes on all over the country. I got to look at the voting software for South Carolina through a geek friend...eek! Changing the vote on it is as easy as changing a number on a text document. This is also why we had this anomalous reading where there were more votes sometimes triple in some instances than what was in the districts.


As far as the claim that Bush ruined the economy...well he just hastened it along while it was already running for destruction. Both parties have done their work.

reply to post by seagull

Congress and the President are, ultimately, answerable to us. If we're so stupid as to let them work without supervision, well, we get what we damned well deserve... It gets really old hearing, or in this case, reading; this constant refrain blaming some nebulous "other" for all the bad things that may or may not be happening. Y'all, along with myself in many instances, need to look in the blasted mirror. Blaming others is a cop out...

Yeah right. After three years of battle I do not believe that. Corporations win over the screaming of peons despite the absolute idiocy of the regs being fought over. Soon corporations will have complete control over food despite the bitter fight from farmers.

Congress defeated the bill called the "Safe and Secure Food act of 2005" and also did not pass bills to legalize Premises ID and NAIS. The USDA has therefore spent 2 million dollars bribing states, tribes and breed organizations to get the states to pass NAIS into law. States have downloaded personal information about their citizens to the USDA database. This was done without consent and done illegally. Come January 2009 the first stage of NAIS will be imposed based on the number of farmers who are in the database. This shows Congress how farmers are FOR the program because they VOLUNTEERED their information. Farmers trying to OPT out after their information was illegally obtained have found the "official procedure" does not take them out of the data base, no matter what they do.

These are some of the tons of sites that show the fight for the right to farm.
www.r-calfusa.com...
libertyark.net...
arkansasanimalproducers.8k.com...
www.farmandranchfreedom.org...

Lawsuit to stop NAIS www.ftcldf.org...
nonais.org...

Independent Farmers do not have the time or money to organize and fight, but we have anyway. The organizations "representing" the "interest of farmers and consumers" are only open to the Wealthy or Corporations. We can not get any mainstream media to carry our stories and the "grassroots" NGOs are closed to the average farmer. I literally pass out info every frigg'n weekend to help get the word out.


nonais.org...-1395089

Walter you mentioned this in passing, but I think we need to address it more throughly.

All of us who have learned about NAIS knew it was just the opening shot in the war to gain complete control of the US and world food supply. The next step is in the planning stages and I think this is the equivalent of NAII. Its goal is to implement the Guide to Good Farming Practices disguised as a grassroots NGO initiative. NOTE only ORGANIZATIONS are allowed to join. Perhaps the Anti-NAIS crowd should form several “organizations” (one for each state) and join.....

The year-old Center for Food Integrity is a non-profit group aimed at promoting dialogue, modeling best practices, addressing issues that are important to consumers, and being a resource for information about the U.S. food system. Its member organizations represent each segment of the food chain, from producers to distributors, as well as the government.

[Several times I’ve looked at exactly this, forming an organization so as to join these groups to find out what they’re up to and be able to make input. They have interesting hurdles, typically extremely high membership fees, to keep out the riff-raff like us. -WJ]

Corporations have money, media, NGOs and lobbyists. Why do you think all the tainted food has been in the news. It is to stampede the sheeple into demanding the regs that will turn farming over to the Corporations who have their best interest at heart.


Now what were you saying about blaming a nebulous other??
How about blaming Dan Amstruz, and the MacMillan, André, Cargill, Dreyfus, Batista, Born and Hirsch families???

reply to post by irishgrl

then you steal MY sources posted in another thread where you and your ilk were proven WRONG.

What are you talking about? My sources were on the net. I don't even know who you are, other than the fact that you attacked me just now.

reply to post by irishgrl

What a load of tripe. first of all you sink to the Ad Hominem, then you steal MY sources posted in another thread where you and your ilk were proven WRONG. All the so-called conservatives just cant STAND it that they are really HYPOCRITES

I think you had better learn the T & C of ATS. Your posts and attacks are out of line.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by irishgrl
I personally hope Obama taxes the mega-Multinational Corporations who have outsourced all the jobs in search of the almighty profit margin.

Newsflash. The corporations that were dealt crushing taxes have left the country - taken their products and their jobs elsewhere. There is nothing left of them to tax. They have been crushed. This destructive mentality is part of the reason for job loss in this country.

Originally posted by irishgrl
Bull#.

You are new here so let me direct you to the T&C of this site.
No profanity.

ACORN is no more responsible for this mess than you or I. Neither is Obama. And pointing fingers at Barney Frank is scapegoat mentality.

It's not scapegoat mentality to place the blame where it belongs. It's the truth. You obviously didn't read the links and educate yourself or you would see, very clearly, that this financial mess isn't the 'sole responsibility of the republicans'. There are many people and organizations that deserve to be pointed at.

I'm tired of presenting the facts and truth of the situation to you only to have them ignored and to have to hear 'it's all the republicans fault' drivel.

I'm not going to bother any longer.

Enjoy your delusion. :shk:

you must be watching FAUX news if thats any indication of your "newsflashes" The sad sorry truth IS, mister Flyers Fan, that those companies that outsourced did so because they didnt have to pay a decent wage, or worry about employee benefits or other Govt mandated protections for the workers. In short my supercilious friend, they went where they could pay the least and get the greatest return AKA, THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES.

You have yet to present any facts or truth, and Ive considered your sources. I consider them bogus. Im well aware of the rules here, and last time I checked, you werent wearing a MOD hat, so pipe down.

The blame for this mess belongs SQUARELY at the feet of GW Bush and his cronies, his administration, and all the corporate bigwigs who got what they wanted on GW's watch.
All Bush's chickens have come home to roost and you can keep your head in the sand all you want bubba. Its not gonna change the FACTS nor the TRUTH. Bush MESSED UP.
He finagled his way into office. He had a SURPLUS. Let me say that AGAIN:
HE HAD A SURPLUS He has no one to blame but himself and his cronyism and his "punish the poor, reward the wealthy" mentality for this mess.


[edit on 11/29/08 by irishgrl]

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by irishgrl

 

What a load of tripe. first of all you sink to the Ad Hominem, then you steal MY sources posted in another thread where you and your ilk were proven WRONG. All the so-called conservatives just cant STAND it that they are really HYPOCRITES

I think you had better learn the T & C of ATS. Your posts and attacks are out of line.

really? all I did was expose you for taking MY info from an earlier thread. Also, I defy you to prove me wrong. After the last 8 years of Bush mismanagement, and 6 years of Republican Congressional mismanagement where every big-business blank check was rubber stamped, I hardly think you can argue with the result. Or maybe you can because you just refuse to accept the truth.....who knows? by the way, Professor, I invite you to go back and re-look at my post quoting you. The whole reason I jumped into this fray was because of YOUR attack on a previous poster. Man, if you live in a glass house, you should not be throwing stones eh?

[edit on 11/29/08 by irishgrl]

Originally posted by y2presley
reply to post by Dodecahedral

 

...lol...good entertainment from the liberal side, now go ahead and include Clintons legacy, err, wait, what legacy? Pelosi and Congress is 10 times the asswipe that Bush is.....remember, for you pointing your finger, there are three coming right back at ya!

And yet: Clinton took a deficit larger than this one and turned it into a surplus. THAT'S his legacy. One you can never ever erase. Too bad.

reply to post by Dodecahedral



A bit to simple if you ask me... You need to do your homework... And it will lead you to Slick Willie.

2 events in history have led up to where we are today.

1. The fact that Willie gutted the FBI and the CIA in the 90's caused 9-11... And the resulting reaction from Bush, right or wrong, would not have happened if Willie had left our information gatherers alone.

2. The "community reinvestment act" led to homes being sold to people who could not afford the home they were buying, and the banks were FORCED to make the loans by the federal government... Thanks Carter and slick Willy

Please research these two things and you will find the truth