**Important Message to ALL my fellow Conservatives** (please read)

reply to post by hypervigilant


No, I meant what I said. But you are right though the Spend and Borrow democrats are representing the republicans and they need to be purged from the party.

It just goes to show how ingrained party affiliation is in peoples mentality.

Very well put.

I agree. I must say, I also enjoyed the replies. I'm fed up with attacks & of people reverting to insults because they can't get their point across eloquently.

reply to post by dawnstar


totally agree with you about gw & his crew wrecking not only your country but a great amount of the rest of this world what a mess.
However i do feel that yesterday was very much about welcoming in Obama, he is one very sincere kind conscious man who has amazing ideals for the whole world not just usa, & i for one know that a large amount of us in uk are well happy he is in,for once we are very inspired by your leader,There is a massive change in the atmosphere over here not so much atmosfear but we do wish gw would go now,then the real changes can begin,thank you usa for your man,peace to you..

I myself have grown up in a strongly democrat based community in North East Ohio. We usually vote for democrats with out blinking. It seems the older I get and the more research I do in to issues and politics, I find myself being more conservative about things. I find myself more and more with the republican points of view that I do the democrats. But if anything, this election has inspired me to get more involved into the political system. If it is joining the Republican Party or maybe trying to get into a state office. Who knows. But I know I want to get more involved. Try to do more for my country and try to find truth in everything. Let us see what happens in the vote of 2010 with the reps and senate.

Reply to post by Dooper

Do not state that you were given a choice, the choice has always been yours to make not theirs to give. You have never been required to pick from the options presented to you.

That same sentiment goes for all of you. None of you are ever required to pick the choices that are provided for you. Indeed, if you count yourself an individual you should make reasoned decisions and take into account options outside the options presented.

Some of you are guilty. Some of you KNOW you are guilty. You are guilty of voting Democrat or Republican when there are people who better represent your views. People whom you won't vote for because they were not hand picked. But some of you, guilty that you are, vote only for one of the two options that are put in front of you.

I voted for Ron Paul. He isn't a strong speaker like Obama, and his service in the armed forces isn't as grandiose or touted as McCain's. But the bastard knows what the hell is wrong with this country, and I believe him to be possibly the only honest, sincere and genuinely caring politician I've ever had the pleasure of voting for in my life.

HE wasn't one of the options, and it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter whether my vote was counted or not, it matters that I voted for whom I believe was best for the job.

So don't ever say "I had to choose between this and that," your choices are infinitely more varied than that.

Reply to various anti-religious comments

Freedom of Religion should mean freedom to express your religion in schools, institutions, and publicly without threat of repurcussion.

Freedom of Religion should mean that if your religion is okay with Polygamy, that it isn't illegal.

Freedom of Religion should mean praying in your school, your work place, your car, in public. If you want to. Without fear of reprisal.

Freedom of Religion should also mean being able to do none of these things, but it should NOT mean preventing others from doing them. The suggestion of such a notion is entirely fear based... based in fear of religious people and religious ignorance, when that is not always the case of things.

Reply to post by Dooper

Pray that you are right about the fact that their hands are tied financially. Just because there's no money doesn't mean they won't destroy the country printing more to try and make the impossible happen. Never underestimate stupid.

Countless decades now, whenever a new project or social welfare program has been enacted, the money came out of thin air to support it. Like trying to balance jell-o on toothpicks, eventually the whole damn thing is going to slide right through and create a big mess.

I certainly hope myself that the government now in power will act responsibly, will recognize their limitations, will be fiscally wise and realistic in the expectations of what they plan to achieve...

The problem with hope is it doesn't always match reality, because government sure as hell hasn't been any of those things for a long time.

we need to define what is meant by socialism.
If you like the idea of the coast guard coming to rescue in high seas, police responding to assault, fire department putting out house / forest fire, access to the local library or park to relax, education children recieve in school, the regulatory system in place from USDA to EPA, or hundreds of other govt programs that support us including the military protection of US armed Forces, then we support a certain degree of socialism.

Its always a matter of degree. Something well understood by the Chinese. The Economy here is capitalist in certain degree, socialist in others. And it works.

What will not work is Republicans stating they will not tolerate socialism, and then espouse socialist programs such as bailout of banks and wall street firms which accomplished little but line the pockets of billioniares. It is intellectually dishonest and completely undercuts the foundation of their platform.
It may have been part of the problem with Senator McCains campaign, being true to yourself is the first rule of Politics. President Bush was a lot of things, but he was true to his beliefs. Once you depart from your stated beliefs or platform to accomplish deeds, there is disconnection between the platform and the Voter.

Socialism is not a dirty word, it is a system of organization. It is as good as the people managing it. There is no such thing as a bad or good system of government or economy. It falls to the people managing the system to insure it is good or bad. (A good King is more beloved by the people than a machevellian President).

The most efficient system will be a mixture of the capitalist / socialist systems. This has already occured in the USA, and is slowly occuring in China and other nations. It is natural evolvement of combining the best of both systems.

Americans are already living in a degree of socialism, and Chinese are already living in a degree of capitalism. in the near future, 30-40 years, it will be difficult to tell them apart any longer

reply to post by Gateway
Perhaps one of the greatest posts (thoughts) I've read.

I wish I were as articulate.

True conservatism is the only tonic that can cure the massive wounds that neo conservatism has left us with. I understand completely why the liberals won this election to the the magnitude that they did. However, their reasoning is as flawed as their neo conservative predecessors.

Star and flag

Deficit - bigger than ever.
Government role - bigger than ever
Government intrusion on personal liberties - unprecedentedly huge
Security - less than it was
Standing in the world - never been lower
Financial situation - dire

That is what 8 years of NEO-CON BS got us. There is not one damn thing conservative about these "republicans." They stand for everything the Republican party is against. They are frauds in R clothing and little more.

Unless I missunderstand the meaning of conservative and someone can explain to me how any of the above fits that. Where are all the real Republicans and I do NOT mean Libertarians either. Maybe some people need to read up on what a Republican is supposed to stand for because I am having trouble finding anyone that truly gets it.

As a former straight ticket Republican voter, I can say the party that used to be for everything that was right about America has now become the party that represents all that is wrong about America. And have I changed, or has the party changed.

No, I haven't changed one bit, but the party I used to support sure has. I can no longer support my former party under the quise of pseudo moralism, which is what the republican party has come to represent. They give good lip service, but their actions speak of treachery.

Conservative Americans are tired of the same old song and dance given by the Republican party, sweeping us off our feet, only to be crushed by the rejection of what we hold dear...a moral saneness.

Until they can once again find the high road once traveled, I will vote for the party that takes a new direction away from all of the insanity...Change we need...Yes!

reply to post by Gateway


Yes you are right about a lot of what you say but make no mistake the neoNazi will not go away peacefully and they will hide in society as does a herpes virus in the spinal ganglia. We real conservatives will have a fight bloody fight on our hands. Before this is all over with "We the people" may have a civil war to fight as the NeoNazi lusts for power and has hidden around the world as spies do resources to fund their next coupe. We must be relentless and unwaivering endeavors. If we fail they will come back mutatated into a more virulent and stronger disease that will seek revenge for their defeat. So understand this is a fight to the death.

A fight that can only be won by the death of corporatism, fascism, Satanism, glutinous greed, The Federal Reserve just to name a few. So if you have not the stomach to fight to the end do not get involved just to piss them off. This has to be a journey to reclaim our Freedom and Identity as American first and conservatives next.

Originally posted by TH3ON3
No, I haven't changed one bit, but the party I used to support sure has. I can no longer support my former party under the quise of pseudo moralism, which is what the republican party has come to represent. They give good lip service, but their actions speak of treachery.

Reagan once said: "I did not leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party left me."

It would seems many of us Republicans are in the same water.

This is not the party of Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt founded.

reply to post by Gateway

There is nothing conservative about neoconservatives. They should have never been embraced by the party.

They proved that they hate Christians very early on when it was revealed that within the White House, Christians were referred to as "crazies" by the Bush people. Yet Christian leaders continued to support them.

They created the biggest expansion of government ever. Reagan said "government isn't the solution, it's the problem". The Bushes couldn't expand government fast enough, yet got away with dropping Reagan's name constantly.

The war on terror is like the war on drugs. It can't be won. How will we know when the nameless, uniformless peasants have got it out of their system? And besides there being no way to know when we have won, the war itself inspired most of the terrorists in the world to become terrorists in the first place.

Non religious conservative ideals are the most enlightened ideals in the world. That's why the neocon/eurocon elites erased it from the face of Washington. Our party hasn't just lost it's way, CONSERVATISM IS DEAD!!!

Name one true conservative in Washington besides Ron Paul! The MSM is marginalizing him as a Libertarian! Conservatives are now a third party! And all third parties are irrelevant in the eyes of the MSM.

I still can't believe this happened in this day of information overload.

reply to post by FredT


We must never forget THOSE that sold-us-out. The list of Neocons I provided is a brief one, as time passes and heads begin to roll the list will grow.

Somebody has to pay, for giving us this coming socialism. Fingers will hopefully be pointed in the right direction.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
I've said it before and I'll say it again if you hated the past 8 years your going to absolutely despise the next four.

BIG ups.

That is something I have been saying a very long time. Barack Obama will not save us and in Justin Oldham's thread, the year 2009 alone will make us nostalgic for the Bush years. In fact, 2009 will be one of the sh*tt*est years in United States history. A lot of what happens during Obama's presidency, both as a pro-active act and a reactive act, will create the foundation for a fascist totalitarian United States led by Sarah Palin, starting in 2017.

Even people on the far left (Cynthia McKinney's campaign most notably) say that Barack Obama is not a savior.

I felt I fit into the mixed crowd while I am liberal in my personal life I am somewhat Conservative in other matters. Yes even being gay though I still think the Government should be small and followed along with the message of Ron Paul. If he would have been pushed by the media and GOP as much as McCain he would have probably won. The religious kookiness though has turned me from both parties. So I watched the debates from the two major candidates and they too lied so much it made me nauseated. This year was the straw that broke the camel's back as I just threw up my hands and said, " I'm not going to be caught with the lesser of two evils crowd again." We need better leaders, not better liars.





[edit on 5-11-2008 by toochaos4u]

reply to post by toochaos4u

I felt I fit into the mixed crowd while I am liberal in my personal life. Yes even being gay though I still think the Government should be small and followed along with the message of Ron Paul.

You may be a first, and I have to agree with you. I to voted for Ron Paul.............

reply to post by Hallberg Rassy


Oh, I understand fully that a small degree of socialism is required to maintain the infrastructure and reasonable safety nets that society requires.

I ask this: Is your house your property? Is your furnishings your property? How about your tools, cars, electronics, savings account? How about your business, your business equipment? When you list your assets, are those too, your property?

Since the vastly outnumbered Greek free men fought the Persians, the difference was free men were supported by the principle that your property was yours, and in the event of your death, that property would pass to your heirs.

Is money your property?

Understanding that there are certainly mutually beneficial public projects that enable and make for a safer and more enriched society, it goes without saying that taxes are required.

But how in a society that values personal property and property rights, can someone, even a government, take your property and give it to another?

If THE MAN (whoever that may be) comes and says, "Mr. Dooper, you have three cars. Mr. Lazyass down the street doesn't have one. We're going to take one of yours, and give it to him.

I ask you, is this right?

So for there to be a taxation system that takes the wealth of one man, and subsidizes another is contrary to everything our culture and property laws are based on.

There needs to be a flat tax, and no matter what you make, you pay a percentage, and none is to be given to another. If there is to be unemployment or some form of welfare, then that should be very limited in substance and with a reasonable time duration.

Spread the wealth around. Why doesn't that SOB sell his million-dollar house and spread his around.

Notice the charitable contributions of some of these prominent Democrats. A couple hundred dollars a year. I know folks who don't make $50,000 and contribute ten times that amount.

They're real generous with our money, but their pockets seem to remain stuffed.

We have to do everything possible to get back to conservative values, and find some smart attorney to take that taxation challenge to the Supreme Court.

And as far as Ron Paul. He had zero chance. Absolutely none. If a hole the size of a bowling ball gets knocked in the bottom of my boat, I can go ahead and jump overboard, or I can bail like hell. But I won't spend my time wishing I had a damn patch, looking for one in the catalogue. Some choices are no good choice, but I will be doing something.

We have a saying down here. The closest alligator is the biggest. Obama was the closest, and the only hope was McCain. Not a great choice, not even a good choice. The only choice.

Good conservative initiatives based on good conservative values can bring in and appeal to a number of folks. We gotta get back to work.

[edit on 5-11-2008 by dooper]

I am one of the few conservatives I know who opposed BUSH from day one. In fact, I did so even during the primary season before the 2000 election. I saw the train wreck before it even left the station. But, everyone, and I mean everyone I knew at the time, said *I* was the paranoid nut.

It took eight years to feel vindicated.

And now I say big deal. Look at where we are now.

Never in my lifetime have things looked so challenging.

As many in this thread have already pointed out, Neocons are NOT conservatives.

Period.

There can be no debate. They are NOT one in the same.

Liberals may not understand that, but that does not make it any less true.

If there is any real tangible benefit to Obama's win that I can immediately credit him for, it will be the resounding repudiation true conservatives will have of the Republican party's pathetic distortions of conservative ideology.

In my book, that is a good thing.



It's about damn time!!!

[edit on 5-11-2008 by loam]

reply to post by toochaos4u


There is nothing wrong or conflicting with REAL Conservatism and your sexual orientation; for it should not interfere in people's personal lives, unlike what the Necon crowd and the Left want to do.

Please see and read Justin Raymondo, he's a conservative anti-neocon, anti-war and open about his sexuality. He runs a great website.

Please see here



[edit on 5-11-2008 by Gateway]

There are a lot more Neo-Cons to push out of the party. And McCain is exemplirary one of them, he has a Neo-Con stand point on Foreign Policy, and as we saw with the financial bailout, a very Liberal view of our national politics. Just like Joe Lieberman. However Neo-Con runs deep into the constintuency of most of the Republicans. I think they should start now and form a new party till the Neo-Cons are crushed. Get out all the Conservatives that are left in the party, which I suspect might be about 55-60% of what's left. Reacquaint themselves with the constitution, because obviously there VP candidate didn't. Even if it takes them 8 or 12 years it'll be well worth it.Plus it would be a great start to breaking this stupid 2 party system.

[edit on 5-11-2008 by djpaec]