Arkansas Pass Gay Adoption Ban

reply to post by Ign0rant



You know homosexuality used to be illegal too didnt it ?Yall have already come along way with getting some things changed ....
Now your all allowed to just do what you want where you want ..even naked in the streets and doing sex acts on eachother in those parades (I saw plenty of videos from the last couple of parades) .....Any of us straight people would go directly to jail for doing any of the above in a parade or even on a back street .....
Also the hate laws ...it only goes one way ..if a homosexual hates Christians and threatens them .using foul vile language and all etc .. well it is like no biggie ...but hey if we even question yall about anything (even in a nice way )we are considered hateful etc ....and we could go directly to gitmo ....

How much more special treatment do you all really want ? How much more laws do you think need to be changed etc just to suit WHAT YOU WANT ?
And to what extent of change will you be happy with ?
Why cant you just go and LIVE YOUR LIFE ...and deal with all of that comes with your lifestyle .......you chose it .and now you will have to deal with whatever comes along ...including be told NO to some things ..(All of us have to do this in this life ..because life hardly ever goes like we wanted it to ) .....and of course you had to have known it was going to be a tough battle to get the majority to accept it ..... ...so dont be so surprised ...sometimes you all act like very spoilt children who just want their way ...or you will stomp your feet and blow smoke out your nostrils if you dont get it ...(Drama queens ) .....

Why dont yall get some straight women to have your babies or something?
Or men ....or whatever .........if you really want to have children that is about the only way you can at least right now ... ...since you dont have the right parts between the two of you to have your own children ..........(And please tell me just how is that so normal since your always saying it is so normal being this way ?)

About the adoptions ..I dont think it is easy for anyone to adopt ..the red tape and the requirements makes it hard for anyone to adopt ..so your not the only ones who are being wronged (or think you are) by the adoption process.......................
I bet since I smoke Cigs that even I would be turned down ...I do feel discriminated against everywhere I go (Since most of the world is now nonsmoking ) ...but I dont demand my right to smoke ..I dont make them change laws etc just so I CAN >>...I just get over it ..I chose to be a smoker so I have to suffer the consequences of what I chose to do which is NOT A MAJORITY RULE ....most people dont like it ...and I wont try and MAKE THEM LIKE IT ...I will just walk away and smoke where it wont offend anyone ...I really could care less ...well until they make it where I cant even buy them...then I might .......but if the Majority overules us ...then I would have to deal with it .....This world does not REVOLVE around just YOU >>or me ...there are others here .....thats what I try to keep in mind when things dont go like I wanted them to .....it helps me get through it all easier and with a better non spoiled mindset .........

Can Lesbians, Gay Men, and Bisexuals Be Good Parents?
Yes. Studies comparing groups of children raised by homosexual and by heterosexual parents find no developmental differences between the two groups of children in four critical areas: their intelligence, psychological adjustment, social adjustment, and popularity with friends. It is also important to realize that a parent's sexual orientation does not indicate their children's.
Another myth about homosexuality is the mistaken belief that gay men have more of a tendency than heterosexual men to sexually molest children. There is no evidence to suggest that homosexuals molest children. www.apahelpcenter.org...

Here is a site that goes over the APA’s decades of research: www.apa.org...

In a country where the American Psychological Association has backed up claims like this with decades of research I will never understand why people ignore facts and cling to bigotry.

Here's a couple of observations:

1. There's no army of unwanted babies to adopt.
IF you have friends who are trying to adopt, they'll tell you it'll cost between 10,000 and 80,000 to adopt a healthy child. You can adopt an asian the cheapest; central american kids and caucasions are exceedlingly rare---you probably cannot get an american-born child for under 30,000 anywhere. Most of the Russian and Balkan supplies are beginning to run out.

just googling the topic, I found this article: Not so easy to adopt from china any more . Look at the comments at the bottom, and you'll see that most american couples paid 20 months of paperwork and $20,000 for a chinese girl baby to adopt. One thing I forgot to mention is that in the US, because of a supreme court case that parents NEVER lose their right to their children, that few people will adopt US babies, since the bio parent can arrive and demand their child back, and cannot be made to reimburse the parents, even if they "sold" their cihld willingly.


2. There is no such thing as a legal "right to adopt."
It is a precious privilege. You have to prove you're rich enough to bring the child up in at least middle-classness. Child services will inspect your home, interview your friends, and question whether your religious beliefs amount to brainwashing. Get a lawyer, a good one. If either of you have ever been divorced, child services will interview your ex for any tales of domestic violence and/or drug use, regardless of whether they were ever made during the divorce. (I have friends who went through this). Not only do gay people not have a "right" to adopt, neither do straights or anyone else. Child services will tell you: "it's not about you, it's about the child."



[edit on 6-11-2008 by dr_strangecraft]

I reference back to my post on page two:

Arkansas Adoption Law Post

If you are single and gay in Arkansas, you can adopt.

reply to post by dr_strangecraft


What is not good for children is denying them loving parents based on the parent's orientation. And I don’t see how anyone can argue differently when children raised by homosexuals are at no disadvantage.

[edit on 6-11-2008 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

[Child services will tell you: "it's not about you, it's about the child." ]

And that is the way it should be ...
Let me tell you ...being a parent is the HARDEST thing I have ever done ..I had two sons ..one was an excellent child ..the other was so bad I cant believe I survived it (cant believe he did either lol) ...one was such an ill tempered child that he would bite himself and hit himself etc . he was a product of his enviroment (his dad was a mental abuser to all of us) .....it affected my son .It was horrible feeling his misery (not because of my actions but the actions of his dad who didnt care about nothing ) .....

I love my kids but MY LIFE WAS OVER when I had them ..and then everything I did they mimicked and mimicked everything their dad did too .which you cannot make your loved ones (Husband) change it just dont happen ...leaving him would have left my children without a father which could have been worse ...it was SO HARD >....

There is no more thinking of yourselves or eachother once you have a child ..so think about that ..you cannot just give them back ...once you have them.and they do not turn out like you wanted them to (not at all) ...
they are their own little individuals ..(which is neat but also irritating lol) .

I will be the first to admit I was a HORRIBLE parent ...I had no idea what was in store for me after having those two precious babies ....no matter how hard I tried to do them right ..I still failed ..and possibly made their life worse by trying to do always do the right thing .....and I would not let any kid go to me if I was an Adoption agency ...
And if I had known then what I see now I would have adopted them out ....
I ruined them..just by staying with their dad ...and making them put up with that ....and then of course I made mistakes too that they would copy or mimic .....all of my bad habits they copied ..(they watch you all the time and listen to every word you say even if your not even talking to them ) ....then they make those same mistakes and it breaks your heart ..my heart broke watching them have to go through everything the hard way just like I did ...

Having kids is not like taking home a cute little baby puppie .....


[edit on 6-11-2008 by Simplynoone]

Originally posted by TheRedneck

If the homosexuals in the USA will simply stop with the shock therapy, stop parading down Main Street in cross-dress underwear, stop trying to scare little kids, stop trying to force kindergarten children to support your cause, stop those who have this one trait in common with you from showing what scum they (and by loose association, you) are by being a pedo, then public opinion will change. Until that happens, you will not change a thing.

I must say. I'm a homosexual woman, in a relationship with a woman. We have two children.

I agree with exactly what you said. I refuse to march in parades and protest.

We're committed, we have children...we're happy and a family.
Us throwing on rainbow clothing and jumping around yelling 'here we are!' will never help with anything, it alienates us from what others are trying to achieve.

The way I see it, The people voted, some said ban it, some said keep it...in the end more voted to ban it and that is that.

I live in Arkansas and I tried explaining to many people that the wording of the amendment also infringed on straight un-married couples from adopting, but many didn't listen.

When the American public come together and vote for it to pass, or vote to pass a marriage amendment for gays...then so be it, until then respect the democratic process.

reply to post by teflon_superhero

Thank you for that reply, teflon. I am truly glad you have found happiness and wish you (and your 'partner?'; not sure what word is proper here, so please forgive my ignorance) all the best.

May I make one suggestion? You already are on the right track by demonstrating, as opposed to telling, how moral and socially acceptable you are. but I would use that to openly and adamantly condemn anyone you see doing the parading thing, as opposed to just not participating (if you do this already, just ignore me for not understanding that). Their actions harm you as well as them, by loose association, and by openly condemning them (as you have done here), you separate yourself from their bad example in the public eye.

Again, all my best, and all my respect. And a star.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


I have told many of my friends who go off on the 'parade wagon' (as I call it) just how silly it is.

I've never understood the gay pride parades. I don't see a single mother's pride parade, or even gun rights parades because not only is it ridiculous to throw yourself at people and declare you're here and to get over it, to me it is taking a step back and proving JUST how different you are.

And don't worry about the 'partner' thing lol. I say partner, girlfriend, call her by her name, or whatever floats my boat at the moment

reply to post by teflon_superhero


Hey teflon. Thanks for your post.

I think part of the problem must be that many straights think that the gay community is a monolithic entity, with, um.....homogenous....membership.

I suspect that, as more people interact with people like you, who don't seem to be "cartoon gays," there will be more latitude from the majority for accepting gays and lesbians as individuals, and not agents of some insidious gay army.

But then, I would hope for the same progress as regards the rest of the world's view of my fellow Christians. A lot of us hold degrees in science, study the Bible critically, and don't believe everything that TV preachers say. Some of us brew our own beer. I know there are two of us who even leave the lights on.


Maybe the media always seems to focus on the least mature of any group.

all the best.

[edit on 6-11-2008 by dr_strangecraft]

I must say. I'm a homosexual woman, in a relationship with a woman. We have two children.

I agree with exactly what you said. I refuse to march in parades and protest.

We're committed, we have children...we're happy and a family.
Us throwing on rainbow clothing and jumping around yelling 'here we are!' will never help with anything, it alienates us from what others are trying to achieve.

The way I see it, The people voted, some said ban it, some said keep it...in the end more voted to ban it and that is that.

I live in Arkansas and I tried explaining to many people that the wording of the amendment also infringed on straight un-married couples from adopting, but many didn't listen.

When the American public come together and vote for it to pass, or vote to pass a marriage amendment for gays...then so be it, until then respect the democratic process.



I am so glad to hear that at least someone is being rational in all of this ..
Awesome post and I respect you for that ...

Seriously if that madness would stop ....I am pretty sure that everyone else would just go on with their lives and let you go on with yalls too ...
And more than likely you would all be taken seriously as just wanting to be happy ........and more people would stand behind your right to live as you want and vote for you to be able to marry and even adopt ..... ....you can bet just having those parades and parading around as they do and the sexual stuff that goes on IN PUBLIC right downtown (where you cant miss it) ... etc is one of the MAIN reasons why they would not allow adoptions by people who act in that manner in public .........

Why cant some of yall get together and rally for the END Of those parades?
You may get alot further in being accepted on a wider scale which is what you need in order to get what you want (Marriage and adoption) ...

I would never condone that lifestyle (but I know too that it all comes down to it is really between you and God ..not you and me or you and anyone else ) .
But alot more people from the general public ...would and would help you get your way on those issues ...and would vote for them to happen ..
And all of you would sure get alot more respect if you acted like a respectable adult while in public ...when people see that they wonder what then would yall do at home with kids in the house ...if you could do those things on the street where not only kids are seeing it ..but the whole darn world ......
Whoever takes part in those parades just has no respect for anyone or even themselves ..that is pretty obvious ...

I know though that you cant get everyone to just stop making everyone else look bad ...(it is the same with being a Christian ..the majority act badly but all get judged by the actions of the bad apples... and there is nothing we can do to stop them from doing what they do in the name of Christianity) ...but you can bet I am the FIRST LOUD VOICE and do SAY Something when I see them acting disrespectable and doing horrible things all in the name of something I take very serious (MY LORD GOD)

reply to post by hdchop

I do not think Children who do not have a say should be forced into a lifestyle (growing up thinking that this life style is normal) they did not choose themselves.

I am a gay man. I was born into a straight family that I did not choose for myself. I grew up in a society and culture that did not support who I was. I had no choice in the matter, yet I had to endure the pressure to conform to something that was totally alien to me -- to be what I was not.

Gay people who adopt would not be so disrespectful or inconsiderate. Having gone through the alienation, I would suspect most would go out of their way to not impose anything unnatural upon the children in their care, but would strive to make their home an accepting one, without conditions.

What do those of you worrying about gay indoctrination do when one of your own turns out to be gay? Accept, or try to indoctrinate him/her yourself and attempt to change what cannot be changed?

My heart goes out to all of those young children who are gay but are growing up in jurisdictions that do not accept or support their nature. I have lived through it in the days when being gay was stilled considered a disease all over; not just in the south. The lifetime of negativity has had its effect on me, but it shouldn't have to be that way for the next generation. There have always been people who are gay, and there always will be. Its about time to get over it and move on with society, accepting people for who they are. There's plenty enough to worry about and struggles for us to overcome together without wasting time on issues like this.
peace

People died so they could have the freedom to vote on this. The right to vote is not to be taken lightly.

Get over it. The people spoke - and they didn't want it. That is freedom. Freedom isn't having court after court decide what a minority can impose upon the majority. THAT is infringing upon the rights of others.

[edit on 7-11-2008 by ACEMANN]

[edit on 7-11-2008 by ACEMANN]

reply to post by Simplynoone


You are one of the vocal few who go to a gay parade and are disgusted that gay people are there having a good time to the same extent that straight people do at other parades/outdoor functions. Burning man, much?

That is, I'm afraid to say, homophobic. I've been to PLENTY of parades where straight people are doing all sorts of things to each other, including all kinds of drugs, and they don't get arrested either, and society accepts them just fine. No people on ATS are banging on about what straight people should be allowed to do.

It is pure, abject homophobia to single out gay people for doing something that straight people do all the time. I hate to say it, but it is the truth. No amount of 'but I'm not homophobic' is going to eradicate your history of hypocrisy and dual-standards on the gay issue.

I had all the time in the world to explain to you just why gay people are people too, yet you don't want to listen. I tried my very hardest, as did scores of other people, but you simply can't get over some kind of twisted blockage in your head on this issue. I don't know whether it was your upbringing, or some kind of media-enforced conditioning, or even a hit on the head, but something is not right with you. You have a massive cognitive dissonance when it comes to homosexuality. You can tell yourself, and us, that you are not homophobic, but in the very next sentence you bang on about how gay people should/should not do things straight people do/do not. It's ridiculous. I hope you can put whatever demons you have to rest, and be the person you should be. You owe it to yourself and all the people out there, gay and straight, who are desperate for decent, objective, rational people to join their ranks.

But I guess that's the 'gay agenda' we hear so much about: objectivity, acceptance, love. scary words!

reply to post by ACEMANN


People who are gay are looking for something that would improve their lives, but that would not in any way impinge on the welfare of people who are not gay.
That can't be said when the majority votes to impose restrictions that negatively affect the lives primarily of people who are gay.

Its imposing the opinion of the majority over the minority just because they can. Its rule by might, not right; no better than the feudal system of landlords telling the peasants what they can and can't do just because they have the power.
There are just some things that should not be decided by majority rule; especially where the lives of a minority are imposed upon or made worse as a result.

reply to post by dave420

I've been to PLENTY of parades where straight people are doing all sorts of things to each other, including all kinds of drugs, and they don't get arrested either, and society accepts them just fine.

I'd like to know where these displays of aberrant, though 'straight', behavior are taking place. I've never seen one (outside of Mardi Gras, which I also find disgusting). To date, I have never seen a 'straight' parade where guys walk down the street in their underwear or have faux sexual relations with someone... and especially not when children are present!

Can I get some dates and places these are happening? Links would be nice too...

TheRedneck

Originally posted by wayno

People who are gay are looking for something that would improve their lives, but that would not in any way impinge on the welfare of people who are not gay.

See, here's someone portraying "people who are gay" as a monolithic entity.

Its imposing the opinion of the majority over the minority just because they can.

That's not why I would generally be against gay adoption. Not just because we can impose our opinions. Because I think most gay people, maybe even the large majority, are not as well adjusted as the average straight person. That's why I'm against it. Just like I think the average drug or alcohol addict would make a poor foster parent---hey, some could probably manage it. But not enough to perform a vast social experiment upon a generation of needy and helpless children. That's why: because we think it's best.

Not to hurt you.
Again, not about your sex.

There are just some things that should not be decided by majority rule; especially where the lives of a minority are imposed upon or made worse as a result.

Anti-democratic, heh? Is that just your own stance, or is that what monolithic gay people believe? Remind me not to elect you to any office of public trust.

in some states, motorcyclists are legally required to wear a helmet. There we go again, imposing our views on the minority, who are certain their lives are "made worse" as a result.

reply to post by dr_strangecraft

See, here's someone portraying "people who are gay" as a monolithic entity.

dr strangecraft you are absolutely right in your insinuation here. People who are labeled gay are no more a monolith than are people who are labeled straight. We are all people, and as such, come in an amazing and sometimes even frightening variety of sorts. To generalize by category is a very dangerous thing to do.
We all need to evaluated on our individual merits; thus, the caution not to pass laws that affect categories of people, but traits and behaviours. We don't want pedophiles and rapists adopting or fostering children, period.
Not to stray the discussion here, but since you sort of brought it up, I personally believe there is no such thing as gay or straight anyway. While its possible that a few are 100% one way or the other, the vast majority of us are somewhere in between. How we end up leading our lives is due to a vast array of things. One thing that you can't do however, is mandate that a person must be this way or that. You just can't.

reply to post by wayno

Not to stray the discussion here, but since you sort of brought it up, I personally believe there is no such thing as gay or straight anyway. While its possible that a few are 100% one way or the other, the vast majority of us are somewhere in between.

Yes, there are 'completely' straight or gay people. You're talking to one... I am literally so straight that at one time I thought there was something wrong with me.

That said, I do agree that the majority of people fall between the two extremes.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by dr_strangecraft

 

See, here's someone portraying "people who are gay" as a monolithic entity.

dr strangecraft you are absolutely right in your insinuation here. People who are labeled gay are no more a monolith than are people who are labeled straight. We are all people, and as such, come in an amazing and sometimes even frightening variety of sorts. To generalize by category is a very dangerous thing to do.
We all need to evaluated on our individual merits; thus, the caution not to pass laws that affect categories of people, but traits and behaviours.

Touche. an excellent point, and one that tends to change my mind on the issue. Personally, I'd like to see a society that could affirm fidelity within the context of heterosexual marriage as the norm, or at least the baseline for making assumptions. And cultures DO make assumptions about what is expected, regardless of whose assumptions they are....

But with all that said, I see your point that, forbidding them to adopt base on a category---one that isn't correlated as being "at risk" doesn't meet the needs of children. ON the other hand, if such evidence, DID ever surface, it would be reason enough for a more detailed investigation.

Not to stray the discussion here, but since you sort of brought it up, I personally believe there is no such thing as gay or straight anyway.

Oddly enough, I agree with you whole-heartedly. And I'm coming from my reading of scripture, and my own personal faith. My faith proscribes specific behaviors, and not categories or labels people are branded with.

I don't believe in labels. You are only as straight or gay as your last sex act (or even phantasy!)--or what label you choose to live out. While I'm sure you won't agree with my conclusions, it is interesting that we both arrived at the same yardstick, coming from different directions.

If both sides of the gay/straight boundary would quit dividing up into teams like kids on a playground, there might be a lot less ill will.

I'd be happier if others shared the world-view you and I have arrived at, even if it never changed anyone's conclusions.


all the best.