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Originally posted by pexx421
I think you guys are way off. "america is the single greatest force for good the world has ever known"??? come on, we've installed 16 dictators in nations around the world, we killed at least 2 million vietnamese on an ideological difference, and killed 750000 laosians and 500000 cambodians at the same time. We murdered 500000 philipinos to steal their land, not to mention the debated millions of native americans. We are currently responsible for the deaths of 1.2 million iraqi's in a war ostensibly about money and control, a country by the way, that never attacked america. We are staging for a war with iran, a country that has also never attacked the US and has only been at war with 1 country in the last 100 years, and thats a war we pushed! We put Saddam into power and supported him, we created the taliban. And we dropped 2 nuclear bombs on mostly women and children in a country that had been begging us to accept their surrender for months, all so we could intimidate the USSR that we knew we would be in conflict with next.
If THIS is a picture of the "greatest force for good" in the world, than our world is in a bad situation.
Originally posted by detachedindividual
Hah, I was just reminded of another aspect of America that makes me angry, the attitude that they are somehow saviors of the universe, and without them we would all die a horrible death.
Guess what, you are not heroes to the rest of the world. Iraq wasn't about "freeing the people" it was about installing a government that would sign an Oil deal with the UK and the US.
A real hero nation would be stepping in to help in the Sudanese crisis, the current humanitarian catastrophe in the DR Congo, the massive violence perpetrated on the Zimbabwean people during their "election".
Now that would be a country I'd happily hear calling themselves heroes of the world.
And no, Britain doesn't do much of the heroics either, but at least the British know it and don't have this bizarre delusion that they are somehow traveling the world to "help" the poor people.
I guess it's all about the arrogance really. But it shocks me that some Americans still think this way even after they saw what their own country did to its own people in New Orleans.
Originally posted by pexx421
When i say "we" its because as long as we continue paying taxes we are funding the terrible things our leaders do around the world, and long as we are not out there stopping these people, with force if necessary, we are aiding them in their agenda for domination and hegemony. "all that is necessary for evil to have victory is for good people to do nothing." If you are giving a man money, and he is using that money to buy guns to rob and hurt people, and you know this, and you say how terrible he is for doing that but you continue to give him that money than yes, YOU are partly responsible for what he does.
Originally posted by calihan123
also, for you saying we are the reason for so many countries suffering... we are the country that helps the world the MOST. we donate more food than any other country. We volunteer more than any other country. Give me a friggin break dude.
Originally posted by onetruesaxon
Originally posted by calihan123
also, for you saying we are the reason for so many countries suffering... we are the country that helps the world the MOST. we donate more food than any other country. We volunteer more than any other country. Give me a friggin break dude.
yeah! you donate the most amount of bombs! The truth is the US pledge money but don't always deliver, e.g. the boxing day tsunami,the Iranian earthquake....I'm sure there is plenty more examples.It seems if it doesnt benefit the US they leave well alone.
I have always been a supporter of the US but since visiting several times and viewing some of the comments on this site I became really disenchanted by the self importance and arrogance I have met from some americans. A post in this thread saying 'we won ww1 and ww2...Thats like a football player being part of a winning team and turning around saying 'I won that game all by myself', you go round doing that and of course people are going to be saying who does this guy think he is! I'd also like to know where that poster received their history lessons on WW1.
A few examples of conversations I had on my last visit to the US...
Bus to Boston
Man next to me:So Where you from?
Me:England.
Man: Oh what language do you guys speak over there?
Me:Erm English...
Man: Oh the same as us then.....Do you know the queen?
Bar in New York:
Bartender: so I guess you guys over in England are worried about the war in Iraq huh?
Me: Oh whys that?
Bartender: well the chance of it spilling over the border....
Originally posted by andy1033
For people living in a fantasy of hollywood cr*p, america will still be killing and torturing people under obama, if he wins.
Amazing how ignorant people are, they think the president has all this power, to control things in america.
Originally posted by pexx421
calihan....i always have trouble arguing with someone as beautiful as you... however, randomly bombing all over is EXACTLY what it seems america is doing right now. We have had violent actions in other countries around 70 times since the end of WWII, installed 16 dictatorships, and assassinated 2 rulers of foreign countries. We urge the FARC in columbia to put down their weapons and join the government in their country if they want recognition, then sit by as 5000 of them are executed for doing that over the next 2 years. So on and so on,
I dont by any means group our people with our government, but we criticize the iraqi people for not overthrowing saddam when he committed atrocities, so how can we hold ourselves free from responsibility as our government does the same thing and we cant be bothered to do anything about it because we're to busy watching football, drinking coke, and driving our mustangs?? I respect your love for your people, and i love our people too.....but i dont dismiss all of our responsibility for the the condition of the world, because that is the shared responsibility of all humankind, a responsibility we are all failing miserably. Anyone who can say that we as humans do not do more damage to our world than good, is someone who is not looking at the world realistically. The animals arent better off because of us, the ecology of the world is not better off, some of our most advanced societies live lives lacking in humanitarian love and spirit, and some of our simplest and least advanced societies hold to lives of spiritual and loving fullfilment that most americans can only long for. Unfortunately its the soulless and sick industrial giants that are driving the machine of the world and not the simplistic fonts of simple wisdom that used to exist in communal tribal societies.