Prooof that NDE's are real and all that entails....

If this question is answered, If it could be scientificly verified that the human conciousness survives after the death of the brain, we would have answered one of the most important questions we have as a species.

The persistance of consciouness beyond 'this life' is something which for me personally, is of the highest importance. If you knew without a doubt that your 'self' will carry on after your the death of your body and brain how would that affect how you live your life?

knowing that your body is a medium for manifesting your consciouss being into this reality as opposed to the thing that generates it. Would that change your world view at all?

It seems that this question may be answered soon enough if it hasn't already. If it turns out to be the case and the knowledge becomes widespread and widely acknowledged, how will the world change if at all?

thoughts?

heres the link: www.newsmonster.co.uk...

reply to post by Chonx

I have had several NDE's, and I can assure you that the human body is simply a vehicle, much like the the car you drive, but it isn't you.
When you die, you 'black out' momentarily,within a second, you will find yourself standing beside your 'body'.
The last time it happened to me, I was 'outside' my body looking back at it with a sense of complete indifference, as I was fully aware that I was in fact, a spiritual being having had a human expereience, and not a human being having a Spiritual experience.

Regards,

Horsegiver.

Originally posted by horsegiver
The last time it happened to me, I was 'outside' my body looking back at it with a sense of complete indifference, as I was fully aware that I was in fact, a spiritual being having had a human expereience, and not a human being having a Spiritual experience.

Regards,

Horsegiver.

I must tell you - that was a beautiful way of expressing it. Thank you for those words.

Completely agree I've never heard it put so simply and yet so complete

Thank you.

I find this topic particularly interesting and have done a bit of reading on the subject but haven't come close to scratching the subject. From a conspiratorial point of view, I would imagine that the governments of the world and their scientists have studied this phenomena at great length and very probably know the truth of existence beyond this life which is probably why they can sleep at night whilst carrying out the various acts that they do, knowing that ultimately the dead will get another crack at it anyway so what they hey

berth

Could another possibility for NDE be accounted for by seeing your own body from the eyes of one of the doctors or nurses attending, In a kind of telepathic remote viewing situation ?

Possibly as your brain starts to shut down your pineal gland becomes active giving you your sixth sense ?

Good question, but in my case, I was at home each time, with only my Mother or my Aunt fast asleep in a chair beside me 'watching over me'.
The mere fact that there was someone there who cared about me, gave me the incentive to fight my way back into my tired little body.

Regards,

Horsegiver.

reply to post by horsegiver


I must repeat ziggystar's sentiments, that is a beautiful way to put it.

I wish I knew as you do horsegiver. I want it to be true and I believe that it feels like the truth about life but I wish I 'knew' that it was. Does that make sense? Its like my logical mind won't let me accept it I guess until I experience something for myself which affirms it in my mind.

thankyou all for your comments

Its an interesting premise. based on discussions with patients (Children for the most part and one member of the staff) its pretty clear the brain lives on after clinical death. The question is how long. Minutes? Hours, days? weeks?

IMHO children are fairly reliable sources for these experiences as they have yet to develop the inhibitions and close mindedness that plagues all of us adults to some extent or another

When this happened to me later in life, at the age of 27, I was at home, and in bed with my wife, I clearly remember looking at both our mortal bodies and seeing them as completely empty shells [I believe that our spirits often leave our bodies temporarily during sleep].
To hopefully answer your question, I can assure you that in the moments following leaving your body, you regain all of you consciouness, not just the one tenth part [approximately] that you are accustomed to having at your disposal during your Earthly life. In this enhanced state of consciousness, you are fully aware of everything you ever knew in this and previous lives all at once. After returning to your body from such an experience, the effect remains for a while, enabling you to solve almost any problem in life in mere seconds.
The part that I think may interest you, is that, at the time you are outside your body, your whole consciouness is within your Spirit Body which I am certain, is indestructible [life everlasting].
I supect that the ability of the brain, to continue to function after clinical death, may be a safety feature built in to the design of the Human body to allow for recovery from life threatening injuries and illnesses in cases where the Spirit has temporarily left.

hope this makes sense to you,

Regards,

Horsegiver.

This is a wonderful thread and topic

Any research that points to the importance of living by The Golden Rule and that we are all ultimately held accountable for our actions and even our intentions, is a good thing, as it fosters moral behavior and harmony.

Originally posted by horsegiver
When this happened to me later in life, at the age of 27, I was at home, and in bed with my wife, I clearly remember looking at both our mortal bodies and seeing them as completely empty shells [I believe that our spirits often leave our bodies temporarily during sleep].

Many agree with you that our spirits often leave our bodies during sleep. However, in having had a number of partial astral projections through the years and being very aware of myself, I do not experience that point as a valid one. For many if not most, our dreams may make it appear and/or feel at times that we leave our bodies when in fact we do not. Many mistake a vivid dream to be an Out Of Body Experience (OOBE) when it is not.

Originally posted by horsegiver
To hopefully answer your question, I can assure you that in the moments following leaving your body, you regain all of you consciouness, not just the one tenth part [approximately] that you are accustomed to having at your disposal during your Earthly life. In this enhanced state of consciousness, you are fully aware of everything you ever knew in this and previous lives all at once. After returning to your body from such an experience, the effect remains for a while, enabling you to solve almost any problem in life in mere seconds.

I agree that when we leave our bodies we have, in various degrees, access to our cosmic memory, and that when we return, that access is once again cut off but not completely.

Originally posted by horsegiver
The part that I think may interest you, is that, at the time you are outside your body, your whole consciouness is within your Spirit Body which I am certain, is indestructible [life everlasting].

Pretty much...yes.

Originally posted by horsegiver
I supect that the ability of the brain, to continue to function after clinical death, may be a safety feature built in to the design of the Human body to allow for recovery from life threatening injuries and illnesses in cases where the Spirit has temporarily left.

Pointing to the body and brain being vessels. In some instances, brain damage is healed to a certain extent in order to allow someone to return.

Originally posted by horsegiver
hope this makes sense to you,

It makes a lot of sense.

[edit on 12-11-2008 by Paul_Richard]

Just came aacross this article:

www.socyberty.com...

which is well written and pertains to this thread. check it out.

dominicus, Sorry to dissapoint you dude but I'm an athiest. There is a difference between religious belief and spiritual belief. You make a good point though, one day we ARE likely to know the truth, so what will the people who believed the wrong thing going to do? It won't be easy just to accept that something you've considered an integral part of reality all your life suddenly gets proven to be incorrect.

I fear that if we do gain a scientific understanding as to the nature of our counsciousness and its relationship with reality, the transition period from current popular viewpoints and religions to full society-wide acceptance, will be a turbulent time.


Also, this article talks about other possible origins for human consciousness and sites evidence for this viewpoint.

www.scienceray.com...

All very, very interesting stuff, enjoy!

[edit on 19-11-2008 by Chonx]

Chonx,
WOw, I thought the vast majority of Atheists thought that when you die, that's it. O.k. guess not, you must be the .00001% fraction in this group.

Doesn't it move you intellectually in any direction when you read these NDE's and they all talk about their being a God????

All across the board these NDE refer to a God.

Also, I live with a condition some call SPiritual Enlightenment, meaning what many will find out and experience when they die, I have with me daily, and I KNOW 100% for sure that God is real and exists.

The only "part" of your atheism I'll give you credit on, is this: Anything or any concept that any person "thinks" God is, limits God to that concept. And a concept is not God. So your partially right, as there is no God according to people's limited concepts. But soon as God takes you beyond these concepts for you to experience him (God in all things and all things in God) then you will never be the same.(Non-Duality)

Btw, used to be an Atheist ......so I understand both your view point, as well as the one I'm in now, waking up daily experiencing the reality of God.

reply to post by horsegiver


Accurately put. I would like to talk with you about a few things that I'm experiencing. Sometimes it helps to know your not the only one.

One's senses are designed to function based on the type of sensory nerves.

Thus when you close your eyes and rub them you don't really experience pressure and pain initially, you see flashes of light. Your visual sense interprets the input the only way they can, as they were constructed.

Likewise, when there is the 'death' of the neurological system, you experience the extinguishing of impulses the only way you can, as a type of visual input, or 'visions'.

Because of this it might be premature to judge the experiences formed in NDE which are probably due to hormonal cascades, including such hormones as is found in drugs like '___', as 'real'.

It's not surprising that one who has a NDE brings back 'memories' of 'visions'. What is actually experienced may be different than the memory. And when we talk of NDE experiences, with what are we experiencing these with if not latent sensory input.

It's well-known that during predation, animals have a hormonal cascade which causes them to go into a different state and thus they don't experience pain and death as unpleasant.

Just some thoughts.

[edit on 11/27/2008 by Badge01]

reply to post by Chonx


Even if these NDE's are just a hallucination of the brain, i would rather anticipate this warm feeling than anticipate an endless nonexistence. What is the point to try to find a reason why this is all made up? This is not false hope because it hasn't legitimately been proven wrong. I would much rather believe to have this great experience when I die than be nonexistent. So it might be just the process of the brain shutting down, which would mean that nature designed us to go very peacefully and this is not just a coincidence that nature perfected the human, rather something out there that caused us to have these amazing experiences. Which in my opinion is God.

There are many people who are blind from childhood or from many years, but during NDE, they were able to see.

There are people who have seen things which are occuring out of the hosptal or what ever place they are and sometimes 100s of kilometers away.

I don't think medical science have any explanation for that.

If this is all a self protection and automatic response to a starving brain, it is a really good one and a little odd that many people have the same dream.
Their attitudes toward life and death afterward are inexplicable.
I watched the most recent Ancient Aliens on TV and they said somethings that were very interesting.
They also substantiated (at least to me) and made sense of what these people are saying at the same time.
All of human evolution and knowledge can be encoded on a piece of DNA. The NDE's relive their lives in a flash, as well as view the origins of mankind on the planet.
They may be reading what is already encoded on their DNA. That may be ACTIVATED by the light.
And what they describe as blackness and faster than light travel through a tunnel is a fair description of "a wormhole" also theoretically described on the same program. Which I can't find a copy of online. But this is from the series www.youtube.com...


[edit on 27-7-2010 by rusethorcain]

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
There are many people who are blind from childhood or from many years, but during NDE, they were able to see.

There are people who have seen things which are occuring out of the hosptal or what ever place they are and sometimes 100s of kilometers away.

I don't think medical science have any explanation for that.

Source?

Originally posted by Badge01
One's senses are designed to function based on the type of sensory nerves.

Thus when you close your eyes and rub them you don't really experience pressure and pain initially, you see flashes of light. Your visual sense interprets the input the only way they can, as they were constructed.

Likewise, when there is the 'death' of the neurological system, you experience the extinguishing of impulses the only way you can, as a type of visual input, or 'visions'.

Because of this it might be premature to judge the experiences formed in NDE which are probably due to hormonal cascades, including such hormones as is found in drugs like '___', as 'real'.

It's not surprising that one who has a NDE brings back 'memories' of 'visions'. What is actually experienced may be different than the memory. And when we talk of NDE experiences, with what are we experiencing these with if not latent sensory input.

It's well-known that during predation, animals have a hormonal cascade which causes them to go into a different state and thus they don't experience pain and death as unpleasant.

Just some thoughts.

[edit on 11/27/2008 by Badge01]

This hits the nail on the head, exactly. Just because we don't entirely understand what goes on in the nervous system in certain situations, doesn't mean it's a god or spirit doing it.

Here is some of the more recent findings regarding near death experiences:

Lights and high blood CO2

High CO2 content

Study on CO2 and K+ levels related to NDE