Are these images of Obama masonic?

I was torn between putting this on one of the political forums and here, but I think this is the better place to ask. I found these images floating around on the Internet:









Are these images showing Obama flashing the masonic symbol, or is there some missing context that I am unaware of? If it was just one image, I might have wrote it off as a coincidence, but four images? I think the first three are from the same event, but I don't know the origin of the images, so any knowledge of where this happened is appreciated.

reply to post by SonicInfinity


It simply means "I love you" in sign language

You haven't been to an ACDC concert? That's the goat, man! Rock on.

reply to post by SonicInfinity



Considering the fact that I believe you should at all times remain open minded even if you have a favorite candidate, I would say good find... It appears like he is flashing the symbol we've come to question so much over the years... I'm no expert, but I would not be surprised... The government has been run by the elites since it was created and everyone who has ever been in office has been part of the club in one form or another... kudos...

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by SonicInfinity

 

It simply means "I love you" in sign language

so it does - very cool.
learn something new everyday.

Originally posted by cognoscente
You haven't been to an ACDC concert? That's the goat, man! Rock on.

What is it I've heard said about rock and roll music? That it's the music of the devil? Which would make sense why they flash that sign all over... Unless they are just really happy rock n roll bands saying they love everyone...

means 'love' in sign language yes, but also supposedly means 'Lucifer' in masonry. sometimes when i wave my hand naturally goes into this position. to me it means 'i love lucifer' or 'hail lucifer.'

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by SonicInfinity

 

It simply means "I love you" in sign language

Yes you are right, but check this out... The origins of the original signs of sign language are unknown.... this means, they don't know why the symbol means what it does, it just does... which means it's possible the love sign could still be the masonic symbol and not so cut and dry as you might think...

Here is an article I found on the history of sign language... Granted it's not that professional and I have not double checked any of the claims, but it's a good start... If you want to dive in further please do...

History Of Sign Language

Signs usually represents ideas and not single words. Many signs are iconic, that is, they use a visual image for signing the idea. Most clearly falling into this category are animals, for example, deer (the antlers), elephant (the trunk), donkey (the ears), and the goat (the beard and horns). Signs are also represented by actions, such as the following: milk, coffee, love, grow. Other signs are arbitrary and although the originators may have reasons for forming or moving a sign in a particular way these reasons are unknown today. It is interesting to note that many of the older signs have remained as originally created even though the connection to the origin no longer exists.

reply to post by SonicInfinity


I'm mildly curios here:
On what basis are you assuming these hand signs are Masonic?
What is your experience with masons, that would lead you to this conclusion?

i think in metal music etc the sign is meant to go this way




ps. i apologise for the use of the above site, that was the first one to appear with the metal bands hand gestures
Image Source
[edit to add]

The sign of the horns, also corna (Italian for horns, mano cornuta, horned hand fare le corna, to make the horns, or simply the devil horns) is a hand gesture with a vulgar meaning in Mediterranean countries and a variety of meanings and uses in other cultures.[citation needed] Its origins can be traced to Ancient Greece, and in Ancient Rome it was known as Vorena the Elder's gesture, and symbolized a curse....
...
Superstition
When confronted with unfortunate events, or just when these are mentioned or suggested, a person wanting to avoid that fate could resort to the sign of the horns to ward off bad luck. It is a more vulgar equivalent of knocking on wood....

Satanism
Anton LaVey popularized it as a Satanic salute in the 1960s. His image was often in the press, and the sign appears on many of his photos, such as on the back of the Satanic Bible.Source - The Mano Cornuto

[edit on 3-11-2008 by enduser]

Mod Edit: Image Hotlinking – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 4/11/2008 by Mirthful Me]

reply to post by ElectricUncleSam


The "I love you" sign is a combination of I, L, and Y letter signs.


Look at my avatar I drew. Maybe I am a mason?

Originally posted by cognoscente
You haven't been to an ACDC concert? That's the goat, man! Rock on.

Actually my friend, the thumb is all wrong. To properly salute a favorite band during a concert the thumb must be tucked in order to properly throw up the goat (or "the horns" as we call it here in metalville).
As you can see, the thumb is extended thus proclaiming love.

EDIT-

Had I read the entire thread, I might have noticed that this had been pointed out just a few short posts above mine. However, since I did not, please do not kick me or call me names.
Thanks in advance,
Your friendly neighborhood antichrist

[edit on 3-11-2008 by anonamousantichrist]

[edit on 3-11-2008 by anonamousantichrist]

[edit on 3-11-2008 by anonamousantichrist]

[edit on 3-11-2008 by anonamousantichrist]

Mod Edit: BB Code.

[edit on 4/11/2008 by Mirthful Me]

reply to post by anonamousantichrist


I see. So when the thumb is extended, it means "love", but when the thumb is touching the middle and ring fingers, it's a masonic symbol? I'd still like to know the context these pictures were taken in, though.

reply to post by SonicInfinity


No... when the thumb is tucked in it's a symbol of rock music.

Again why do you believe this hand sign to Masonic, and what do you judge it on?

Thought this pertained to the subject. Seems not just Obama is doing it.




Or is it more like the "terrorist" fist bump? I think you people are reading a little too much into this.

Mod Edit: Image Hotlinking – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 4/11/2008 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by RuneSpider
reply to post by SonicInfinity

 

No... when the thumb is tucked in it's a symbol of rock music.

Again why do you believe this hand sign to Masonic, and what do you judge it on?

What he is doing with his hands is close to a hand gesture use by several groups that may or may not include masons.

Some groups ues the gesture to symbolize the Goat of Mendes or Baphomet.

The Romans used the gesture mano cornuto to ward off the evil eye.

Originally posted by ElectricUncleSam
Yes you are right, but check this out... The origins of the original signs of sign language are unknown.... this means, they don't know why the symbol means what it does, it just does... which means it's possible the love sign could still be the masonic symbol and not so cut and dry as you might think...

Here is an article I found on the history of sign language... Granted it's not that professional and I have not double checked any of the claims, but it's a good start... If you want to dive in further please do...

History Of Sign Language

Signs usually represents ideas and not single words. Many signs are iconic, that is, they use a visual image for signing the idea. Most clearly falling into this category are animals, for example, deer (the antlers), elephant (the trunk), donkey (the ears), and the goat (the beard and horns). Signs are also represented by actions, such as the following: milk, coffee, love, grow. Other signs are arbitrary and although the originators may have reasons for forming or moving a sign in a particular way these reasons are unknown today. It is interesting to note that many of the older signs have remained as originally created even though the connection to the origin no longer exists.

I'm not the only person on this website who will either use sign language as their first or second language. No offence, but you're making a pretty desperate argument here. There is obvious iconic motivation in many signs, but suggesting the seemingly arbitrary nature of other signs might possibly hide something a bit sinister is quite selective.

I mean, are you equally concerned about arbitrariness in English? If so, I'd steer clear of the likes of Saussure and semiotics/semiology in general as you might never sleep again.

How conscious are you of logograms and phonograms on English letter forms or the precise developmental path of some pictograms?

[edit on 3-11-2008 by Merriman Weir]

It's funny. When Bush & Co. were spotted long ago doing the sign, the majority was screaming...devil. But when Obama is doing it, I can almost see sympathy for the devil. Anyway, I think it's harmless. Everybody is doing it. Just be careful of a smart and carefully planned deception. What the Nazi followers were doing 70 years ago, might become a common way to great each other with the "I love you sign"?

PROPAGANDA.
The pictures are fake. Not even very well done. Please take notice of the magical moving flag pin and the mysterious moving stripes on his tie. If one is fake then all of them must be questioned. The republicans are really getting sloppy.

I feel with cases like these we have to look at intent.

As someone has alread said, sometimes our body or in this case, hand may fall into these "sign" positions through normal body movement but this has to be taken in the context of the moment when the "sign" was displayed.

However, given all that goes along with this paticular handsign, someone in a position like Obama, or the many other's who have been photographed multiple times displaying this image, I would have to conclude that there is something more to it.

Surely they have not lead such a sheltered life to be aware of the various meanings of this sign?

Surely it is naive to think people in positions like these are undiplomatic enough to be aware of certain gestures, especially in certain situations, that should be avoided?