God is no Hoax, God is Alive

reply to post by Randy Echo


First, I am very happy for you and extremely glad everything worked out...

I will not attack your beliefs but I may have an alternative explanation as to what happened, based upon your posts.

if that was the case then what was the connection I had in the grotto,

Everyone deals with these types of situations differently, and you may have felt and told yourself exactly what you needed to hear at that moment to get through it...and good for you.

But this 'miracle' does not prove anything other than that wonderful things happen from time to time that give us hope and inspiration - and how each of us translates that is a personal matter...

Originally posted by Randy Echo . . . The doctor came at us with the good news bad news thing, we took the good news first, he said do you know your pregnant, well that was truely a surprise, my wife had been on the pill and it just wasn't expected. The bad news was that the fetus was tubal and severly grown over in the falopian tube, no possible way for it to break free, and so scheduled for surgery to have the fetus removed to save her life. . . .

There are some worrisome things about this story.
I believe in God(s) and I believe in miracles, but I don't believe in obstetricians who first say there is good news, that you are pregnant, before telling you that this embryo must be aborted. An ectopic pregnancy is a tragedy for a couple who want a baby. Even if a couple is pro-choice, being forced to abort even a tiny embryo that would end up killing the mother can still be a sad thing to do.

An obstetrician quickly learns to be aware of peoples' feelings, and will not raise hopes like this only to dash them in such a cruel way.

. . . and never before anywhere had a fetus just dissappeared before on an ultrasound . . .

I'm sorry, but this is just laughable. Viewing things with ultrasound can be tricky, and sometimes small things can be there but are not seen.

As for the statistic given, "Eleven Million to One odds," it's so fake I at first read "Eleventy Million." There is no statistic for an ectopic pregnancy being miraculously taken out of the mother and then miraculously inserted into her womb.

There is a perfectly logical explanation for what your wife experienced.

It is possible to have more than one pregnancy at one time. In fact it's a known danger that an ectopic pregnancy may not be noticed if the woman also has a uterine pregnancy. Obviously the ultrasound operator was primarily looking for an embryo in the fallopian tube, not in the womb. And in the early stages, the embryo is only a tiny yolk-sac, very easy to miss.

It is not unusual for an ectopic pregnancy to be reabsorbed or to spontaneously abort. "Expectant management" of ectopic pregnancy is an accepted form of treatment when the embryo is small or the pregnancy hormones are already dropping.

No sane doctor, seeing the situation you have described, would be particularly astonished. There's nothing at all weird about it, just twins, one of whom did not make it to the womb and was disposed of by the body.

I noted you referred to the embryo as a fetus. If an ectopic pregnancy progresses to fetal stage, the mother dies. I was reading of a Catholic South American country in which all abortion is not only banned, but treated by the state as murder. Girls there with ectopic pregnancies are left to slowly die in agony as the growing embryos gradually burst their fallopian tubes, killing them.

By the way, the ground was hallowed, not hollowed.

There might be some sort of super-being floating around out there, but the facts themselves are far too overwhelming when stacked against the bible guys. It is a book of lies and indoctrinations designed to take you away from the steering wheel of your life, to disconnect you from any feeling of control. And that's not so God can take the wheel, it's so these villains (the power elite) can take what rightfully belongs to you. Your life, your inherent human rights, and in the end, everything else along with it. When this system collapses, and trust me, it is an essential inevitability in a monetary system that designates perpetual debt will fail, will you still thank God for delivering your son into a world of an impoverished majority? Do you truly believe God is testing the resolve of humanity when 38,000 CHILDREN die from hunger annually? If such a God exists in such a cruel world where the very system that supports the religion is oppressing the people it claims to save through faith, I'd do my damn best to kill Him. I hate the fictional story book character God with every ounce of essence I have. Do any study into the history of religion before Christ and you'll see that Christ is just plagiarism of numerous other MYTHICAL beings. Just like everything else in that book. For that matter, how are you sure that it was even God that answered your prayer, maybe it was Krishna, or maybe Thoth, or could it be Allah. Maybe even Satan had a hand in it? Who knows, you never were actually in any part of this spiritual transaction. If I wrote a book that said there is a feel good happy time invisible man that can go anywhere and do whatever he wants and told you that he might help you if you just pray to him would you believe it? Because in the most simplistic terms, that is exactly what you're doing. In few words, you are worshiping the ideals of another man (and not a good man at that. Historically speaking, King James wasn't all that nice, was he?) by proxy of a book.

Sometimes I look at atheists and i wonder how they can sleep at night, knowing the cold loveless existence and death that awaits them, iff'n they're view of reality was true.... the cold dead scientific and materialistic randomly chaotic universe where we're are just nothing but chemicals...

Yes God is real, but it's not some dude in a robe or some separate etherical smoke with infinite pairs of eyes. God is one and all all at once, and it's all conscious, and it all knows everything, all possibilities and all things past present and future. Praying does do something, similarly to meditation. Sometimes one timeline is substituted for another because we just know in our hearts that it's gotta be that way, and it's kind of like having clairvoyance without even realizing it. Our minds release '___' when in deep prayer or meditation, and the separation of mind and body that happens is charged and influenced by whatever finite emotion or thought is going on at the time, and that finite thought becomes infinite possibility, and the mind may jump ship and shift the whole universe into a slightly altered timeline where for example your baby survived.

This isn't a sure mapping out of the process, but it's put together from bits and pieces of what I've experienced. Anyone who says God doesn't exist has a very limited perspective on who/what God actually is.

I have never "worshiped" God because I think God is each and every thing in existence one and the same, and to worship this one force, it's almost a little like taking a bit of your personal power and responsibility away. I'm not sure what the right way to get what you want to happen in life is, but I think the way it goes is partially pre-destined anyway... so what you want isn't neccessarily what you need. I guess your baby dying wasn't in the deck this time around. Perhaps some other lesson in which your son needs to be alive to be able to emotionally support you through it?

From this perspective, we'll never know. Did I make sense? Sorry if it sounds a little confusing. It's hard to put it into words.

ok about the starving kids, you all say why does God if he is there stand and let millions of kids die of starvation and disease and plague. that is because in the bible there is a sort of law a rule if you will, that states that the sins you have not payed for now will be paid by your sons and grandsons and their sons.and to prove the existance of God.it is almost impossible but not absolutly impossible,faith is a big part of being christian and it is believing without knowing.if God just came out and said i am God and proved it to you it would signifacantly change everyones free will,almost as if it were like we wouldnt have any because it is so inevitable to be a believer if you see him. that is why he will wait until the time is right to reveal himself but before that all the believers will be gone with him and all those who were stubborn will be tortured . if you love God you will have faith and he did not totally reveal himself but he left enough evidence that if you REALLY looked with all your heart you will find that he is real.and on the being a controller of your own reality thing, you can influence your brain to do ANYTHING but only to yourself. you cand alter your perception of the world to think you are God but that is and will be only YOUR perception and know one else will think so and neither will God and if you think that you can be more powerful than God and if you think that he is fake then explain the origin of quantity and the origin of sensesand what is sensed

What complete and utter bunkum, how dose one equate one of lifes everyday events as an act of god or proof of same. It proves nothing and never will. God is a lie, god is a tool by which those who control us use it for same end of.

I am so happy that you and your wife were given your miracle. I do believe in God and KNOW that He does exist. I too have experienced the wonderful feeling you described as you were praying. You can not explain that to someone unless they have felt the same kind of emotion. There is no more humble feeling then knowing you are in the presence of the Lord.

Keep on praying and believing.

Peace and Love,
Grandma

Many stories like these are presented all the time. Your story may be a bit more special, if you're measuring by 'odds'. Then again, it is just that, odds of happening. 11 million to one isn't impossible.

single state lotteries usually have odds of about 18 million to 1 while multiple state lotteries have odds as high as 120 million to 1.

from source : www.savingadvice.com...


The odds of winning the lottery are quite high, yet people still win the lottery. And I'm sure many people ask God to help them win the lottery beforehand, which would just add to the shock when they actually win. For believers, this makes a good case for God.

I am glad your son and wife are healthy, and you may chose to believe whatever caused that to happen, but you cannot say it is proof for God.

Thank you for posting this, your intentions for posting seem genuine and sincere and as you say its good to hear some positive news amongst all the doom and gloom that is prevalent everywhere at the moment!
What you experienced can't be defined by logic, it is something profound that many people actively seek but never find.
You have been shown something that is a miracle to you, a glimpse of connection to something beyond description and will inspire you for the rest of your life.
I had an experience similar to this, happened to me personally, not a loved one so I understand your awe at what you have experienced and your perception of the world and others will never be the same again!
Whilst others will say this isn't actual proof of 'God' and maybe they are right, to you it is all you need to know and only by 'experiencing' for themselves will they understand.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
What complete and utter bunkum, how dose one equate one of lifes everyday events as an act of god or proof of same. It proves nothing and never will. God is a lie, god is a tool by which those who control us use it for same end of.

And who....or what.....made you such an expert on the matter? Who are you to dismiss another person's experience as 'bunkum'?


Do you go on all the UFO/alien abduction related threads and describe all their experiences as a lie?

No.

But you consider it 'fair game' if the experience of a person involves God.


In the immortal words: 'You, sir, are an idiot.'

Common everyday events and lottery,
of course everyone knows the world is flat
that was common knowledge once
control, control is given, fear is accepted
if religion is created to control
it must only be weak peoples minds allowing it
the laws of the church are there
but I do not assume to believe that because they are
in existance
their only purpose in society is to control people
I am by far not a picture perfect christian, in fact I am
probally more of a scientologist by brand
but I believe in the Lord and I believe in his son
and to be complete here , the holy spirit as well.
I will say this about my beliefs
My difference of opinion when it comes to the church is that
I don't believe we need the church
I think everyone can find god inside themselves, most people
know who have gone to any church is that is full of people who
are constantly sinning and pretending to be what they are not. i have
seen plenty of people committing adultry and lying , cheating , stealing, and there they are on sunday in their fancy suits beating the cover off
the good book. I also believe that since our lord created us in his image
that he really doesn't want people sniveling at his feet, that he wants us to
obey his laws , but grow as people and truely believe in his existance and what he has done, and the amount of his power. It says if you have faith even upon the size of a small mustard seed , one could move mountains, and I think this is how it all works, being tied in to this energy, this being , knowing its bigger than all of us, a bigger picture.
We can never stand next to him as an equal, but I believe he will allow some of us who gets it to come up a notch.
I have an IQ over 140, but I don't have perfect grammer or perfect spelling an Until I make it a project that I want to undertake, I never will, but if I wanted to do so , I could. What does this mean , it means I am not your average retard who would believe anything for no reason.
Why do I believe in God, because I can feel him in my presence, he is with me now, helping me write these words, I am not after browny points, I just want to convey and share this with you, it's real, it exists. If a person wants to go through life with the world is flat method, that is their choice.

I don't have any idea how he was created or where he comes from, it isn't my business really, I believe. I have a friend who is an agnostic, raised in the same church as myself, and was a firm believer until he read one book, Isacc Azimov's companion to the bible, or whatever it was called, and now he is Agnostic, one counter to the bible and he's done, I personally draw from this that believing in God isn't a book thing, you could read the bible ten thousand times or that book my friend read, it wouldn't matter, its a spiritual connection you seek out, find , and carry with you, and I believe that these stories, like the one of my son are important to get others to start the seeking process, if one reads a book and does not seek, they are not going to find out for themselves if the world is flat or not.

I will tell one more story of faith that involves a murder that took place when I was 19.
It was homecoming in Pleasant Valley Iowa, I had a girlfriend who loved motorcycles and wanted to go to the homecoming dance on one, so I borrowed one from a friend of mine named Sergio, it was a suzuki, and it was a very nice new bike, I picked up my girl from school that day, and we were headed over to her best friends house to meet up to prepare for the dance, the bike would not stay running. It kept stalling, I thought for some dang reason that maybe the extra weight was bogging it down, so for a minute after i got it started again I tried to drive it without her on it, still would not keep running, well after limping our way over to her friends house ,it took like an hour or more to get there from pleasant valley to bettendorf iowa, when we got to her house ,it was roped off by the police , her friend had been stabbed to death by an x boyfriend who knew where the key to her house was hidden and had waited for her to walk in. It that bike had ran the way it had for Sergio for the last year, the two of us would of been next to Jenny when she walked into the house, chances are Jenny would still be living if that bike was running right, I was just home from the army for about two months when this happened, I could of easily overpowered or out fought this individual, for some reason it was something that was suppose to take place, I am almost positive things would of ended differently that day. It is like I said in my earlier post, some times Things happen even with prayer that are designed to impact others, the reasons are unknown to us why, but after this murder was wrapped up that night, the bike was driven home by my girlfriends dad, he gave us the bmw and the credit card and told me to feed his daughter , when we got back he told us the bike ran without any problems. After giving the bike back To Sergio, I ran into him about six months later and he told me the bike had not failed him once.

reply to post by Randy Echo


Keep in mind you are under ZERO obligation to defend yourself or your position to anyone.

As you have stated on several posts already you started this thread to simply get the message out. NOT to defend yourself against the debunking of individuals who know better than you and who basically have everything figured out.

All you have to do is deliver the info and walk away, let it speak for itself to those who will listen.


I believe you, Though I don’t know how God works I know he works in scientifically explainable facts.

You will be criticized by debunkers not because scientific or intellectual enlightenment but because it is popular these days.

Please don’t be roped in to the “having to explain every detail of your life “ post in order to verify your sanity to debunkers.

I think it is quite obvious especially on ATS that many of these so called debunkers look in the mirror everyday and swear that they don’t exist. But I have no scientific proof of that either.

After I found God, I just couldn't understand why others couldn't.
appreciate you getting me back on track
and the nice compliments towards my boy

when others ask me to try this idea or that idea
I think that they think that I haven't had a chance to fathom
and it takes me back

until you sit on the horse and feel the horse, grab the reins,
it's just a horse you'll never ride,

Lovin my God
Me

[edit on 1-11-2008 by Randy Echo]

Just because you don't understand something does not mean it is of supernatural origin, a "miracle".

reply to post by cognoscente



That door swings both ways.

reply to post by snowen20


Not necessarily. The least of which lies on the other side of the door can not possibly be respected by a sane and rational individual. What you propose is a motivational belief, one based on experiential circumstances, as opposed to an affirmed belief. If not for the accruing of scientific principles upon a concrete foundation, all of what we hold today as true would be supported by nothing more than sand. And if that foundation's integrity were penetrated by but the smallest amount of water, our entire belief system would crumble. As opposed to the other scenario, our concrete foundation is impenetrable.

And maybe concrete isn't the best example. Perhaps instead we build our house on adamantium.

Likewise you can try to build your house out of adamantium, but the difference lies in the method. You've extinguished all your resources building this house by hand, while your neighbor barely lifts a finger as automata assemble the structure without effort. Your house's windows are barred and opaque, mine are transparent and made of glass. Only you could possibly know what is inside, while everyone is free to analyze and scrutinize the contents of mine.

[edit on 1-11-2008 by cognoscente]

I disapeard from ultra-sound as well at some point, the doctors concluded I was miscarried, but later I reappeard and here I am.

Interesting story, I trully believe there is something more than us but I am yet unwilling to believe the bible word for word, I have a whole different idea of what god is.

I am happy your son turned out alright.

reply to post by Darthorious


I have no doubt. None. I live a blessed and awesome life. Got to do whatever, whenever I wanted for all of it. Turned out Ok for me.

reply to post by Randy Echo


Can god help with the erosion of our civil liberties? what about the looming energy crisis and the current overpopulation? is god an old man with a beard who watches over us and decides to help *selectively* or is he just a set of experiences that you and a few others have had? Your experiences cannot be taken away from you, and I wish you the best fortune. If you've experienced a healing, or any other inexplicable positive event, that is just priceless. But beware that the meaning that you attach to any such experience can go beyond what is supported by any evidence.

I truly believe that things happen that can't be explained. Some people are spontaneously healed. About as many of them are non believers than believers. Just as much as people are spontaneously healed, some people become spontaneously sick and die.

That is just the way it goes. If you choose to attribute god to the cases of healing and miracles, then what do we say about those who die or who fall ill to some unknown illness? There are many things that happen without explanation, some of them result in tragedy. It's convenient that those events do not get credited to god.

-rrr