The truth behind the founder of Catholicism... it's not St. Peter!!!

Hi guys. This thread was actually started in "faith and spirituality" forum but I felt that it belongs here because it is a true conspiracy. One of many by the Roman Catholic church. Those of you who are catholic, please try not to be offended because my beef isn't with followers of the catholic works but the establishment of this false system. Visit the link and it will take you to the active thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You should probably just ask for a Moderator to move your original thread.

This is not the proper way of doing this

Thanks for the input. How do I do that? Moderator!!! Please move my thread to the CiR forum!!!

reply to post by Locoman8
Hello,

How come St. Paul speaks glowingly of the Church in Rome in his letter to them?

True, that church has lost its way but it was not so from the beginning and therefore not founded by an apostate self-styled christian.

The Apostlic church of God in Rome existed outside of the Roman Catholic Church. The church of God in Rome was the church Paul wrote to.

reply to post by Locoman8
Do you have supporting scripture for that?

It's hard to support this idea with scripture because the Roman Catholic Church was not referred to by anything except "false christianity". It didn't originate in rome anyways. Rome simply became the home of this false religion because it was the center of the known world at the time. Outside research must be done for that kind of support but it's there to find, I promise.

Sorry, I don't buy it. A far more convincing argument is that Simon Magus was none other than Paul of Tarsus himself, and even that stretches credulity to the breaking point. Moreover, we have extant fragments of Simon's own writings and the doctrine he preached has very little correspondence with the doctrine of the Catholic church.

How is this reconciled with the writings of the church fathers? They universally seemed to regard Simon and the Simonians with abject contempt, and say that they completely disappeared by the fourth century.

[edit on 11-10-2008 by Eleleth]

reply to post by Locoman8

The truth behind the founder of Catholicism... it's not St. Peter!!!

Amazing! You make a FALSE claim and then knock that claim down.
Of course, St. Peter didn't found the Catholic Church.
Jesus Christ did.

On your other thread, you quote some paper from 1896, and something from 1913. Get real.

It was founded by Jesus Christ Himself in Mt 16:18. *It would be built on Simon Peter, Mt 16:18. *It would be defended by GOD Himself, Mt 16:18-19. *It would have authority given by Jesus Christ, Mt 16:19,18:17-18. *It would be guided by the Holy Spirit who will dwell within it, Jn 14:15-17, Act 15:28,16:6. *It would be one and undivided, Mk 3:24-25. *It would have one fold and one shepherd, Jn 10:16. *It would have Priests, Bishops, and Deacons, 1Tim 3:1-13. *It must have the Holy Eucharist celebration, Jn 6:42-70, Act 2:42. *It must be found in all nations, Mt 28:19. *It must be found in all centuries, Mt 28:20. *Jesus Christ said He would be with His Church every day, in every year, until the end of the world, Mt 28:20.

That is what the Catholic Church teaches. Period.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by Locoman8

 

The truth behind the founder of Catholicism... it's not St. Peter!!!

Amazing! You make a FALSE claim and then knock that claim down.
Of course, St. Peter didn't found the Catholic Church.
Jesus Christ did.

On your other thread, you quote some paper from 1896, and something from 1913. Get real.

It was founded by Jesus Christ Himself in Mt 16:18. *It would be built on Simon Peter, Mt 16:18. *It would be defended by GOD Himself, Mt 16:18-19. *It would have authority given by Jesus Christ, Mt 16:19,18:17-18. *It would be guided by the Holy Spirit who will dwell within it, Jn 14:15-17, Act 15:28,16:6. *It would be one and undivided, Mk 3:24-25. *It would have one fold and one shepherd, Jn 10:16. *It would have Priests, Bishops, and Deacons, 1Tim 3:1-13. *It must have the Holy Eucharist celebration, Jn 6:42-70, Act 2:42. *It must be found in all nations, Mt 28:19. *It must be found in all centuries, Mt 28:20. *Jesus Christ said He would be with His Church every day, in every year, until the end of the world, Mt 28:20.

That is what the Catholic Church teaches. Period.

No, it's not, the Catholic Church teaches many things that are blasphemous, like the idea that if you give the Pope enough money then he can sign this little paper that says you and your whole family can go to heaven, Martha Stewart has some of those, so they still do it. They call the Pope the "Holy Father", Yeshua knocks this down and says in Mat 23:9 "Call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven". Also the Pope is supposed to be infallible, what does the Bible say about this? Read John 3:16. Also they teach that Mary can give salvation and forgive sins, common, do I really need to show you verses that say contrary? These are not fringe beliefs of the Catholic Church, they are founding beliefs of the Catholic Church.

-Lahara

Originally posted by TheRandom1

No, it's not, the Catholic Church teaches many things that are blasphemous, like the idea that if you give the Pope enough money then he can sign this little paper that says you and your whole family can go to heaven, Martha Stewart has some of those, so they still do it. They call the Pope the "Holy Father", Yeshua knocks this down and says in Mat 23:9 "Call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven". Also the Pope is supposed to be infallible, what does the Bible say about this? Read John 3:16. Also they teach that Mary can give salvation and forgive sins, common, do I really need to show you verses that say contrary?These are not fringe beliefs of the Catholic Church, they are founding beliefs of the Catholic Church.

*Bolding mine*

No, you don't need to show verses from the Bible. You might, however, want to provide some evidence of your claims about Catholicism.

Can you point to some Church teaching that Mary gives salvation or forgives sins?

Your understanding of indulgences is extremely flawed (and some sources on the Martha Stewart thing would be nice).

The Bible is replete with examples of people calling men 'Father'.

Eric

Originally posted by TheRandom1
No, it's not, the Catholic Church teaches many things that are blasphemous, like the idea that if you give the Pope enough money then he can sign this little paper that says you and your whole family can go to heaven, Martha Stewart has some of those, so they still do it. They call the Pope the "Holy Father", Yeshua knocks this down and says in Mat 23:9 "Call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven". Also the Pope is supposed to be infallible, what does the Bible say about this? Read John 3:16. Also they teach that Mary can give salvation and forgive sins, common, do I really need to show you verses that say contrary? These are not fringe beliefs of the Catholic Church

Prior to the late 1500's, there were some deplorable practices that had been exercised by some popes, such as the sale of indulgences. An indulgence is the remission of temporal punishment still due for a sin that has been sacramentally absolved.
The sale of indulgences was outlawed by the Council of Trent (1545-1563).
Martin Luther had rightly objected to the sale of indulgences, and the Council of Trent was called to try to reconcile with the Protestant Church.

Indulgences are still "granted", but they are not to "Buy" your way into heaven. Instead, indulgences are a way of emphasizing that confession of sins are not sufficient, but true sorrow for sins is a requirement, and works of charity are stressed. If you are really interested in learning what the Church teaches regarding indulgences, here is an excerpt from Wiki that does a pretty good job of explaining them:

An indulgence may be plenary or partial, according as it remits all or only part of the temporal punishment that at that moment is due for sin.[9] To gain a plenary indulgence, a person must exclude all attachment to sin of any kind, even venial sin, must perform the work or say the prayer for which the indulgence is granted, and must also fulfil the three conditions of sacramental confession, Eucharistic communion and praying for the intentions of the Pope.[10] The minimum condition for gaining a partial indulgence is to be contrite in heart: on this condition, a Catholic who performs the work or recites the prayer in question is granted, through the Church, remission of temporal punishment of the same worth as is obtained by the person's own action.[11]

In response to suggestions made at the Second Vatican Council, Pope Paul VI substantially revised the practical application of the traditional doctrine, making it clear that the Church's aim was not merely to help the faithful make due satisfaction for their sins, but chiefly to bring them to greater fervour of charity; it was for this purpose that he decreed that partial indulgences simply supplement, and to the same degree, the remission that the person performing the indulgenced action has already gained by the charity and contrition with which he does it.[3] Previously, partial indulgences were granted as the equivalent of a certain number of days, months, "quarantines"[12] (Lent-like forty-day periods) or years of canonical penance. Those who did not understand these terms sometimes misinterpreted them as meaning a reduction of that length of stay in Purgatory.

The abolition of this classification by years and days made it clearer than before that repentance and faith are required not only for remission of eternal punishment for mortal sin but also for remission of temporal punishment for sin. Pope Paul VI wrote: "Indulgences cannot be gained without a sincere conversion of outlook and unity with God".[13]

AS for forgiving sins, nowhere does the Church say that Mary can forgive sins. Nowhere. On the other hand, Jesus did give priests the power to forgive sins IN HIS NAME in John20:23

John 20:19–23. "On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, ‘Peace be with you.’ When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

The last verse (23) clearly proclaims that Jesus gave them that power.

As for infallibility of the POPE, it ONLY relates de fide, that is, in matters of faith or dogma. It does NOT apply to earthly matters:

again, from Wiki:

Examples of infallible extraordinary papal definitions (and, hence, of teachings of the sacred magisterium) are Pope Pius IX's definition of the Immaculate Conception of Mary, and Pope Pius XII's definition of the Assumption of Mary. Examples of infallible extraordinary Conciliar decrees include the Council of Trent's decree on justification, and Vatican I's definition of papal infallibility. Examples of infallible teachings of the ordinary and universal Magisterium are harder to point to, since these are not contained in any one specific document, but are the common teachings found among the Bishops dispersed through the world yet united with the Pope. Pope John Paul II specifically clarified that the reservation of ordination to males is infallible under the infallibility of the ordinary and universal magisterium of the Church, without issuing a corresponding extraordinary papal definition. It has been suggested that he did this to remind everyone that the ordinary and universal magisterium is also infallible, and that an extraordinary definition is not necessary to make a teaching irrevocably binding and demanding of supernatural faith. In fact, the ordinary and universal magisterium is the ordinary manifestation of infallibility, the decrees of popes and councils being the only the extraordinary expression.
The Ordinary Magisterium includes the potentially fallible teachings of the Pope and ecumenical Councils (ie, not given ex cathedra) and, more commonly, of individual Bishops or groups of Bishops as taken separately from the whole College. Such teachings are fallible and could possibly contain errors; they are subject to revisions or even, rarely, revocation. In the case of the teachings of individual bishops to their diocese, there can of course even be disagreement among the individual bishops on such issues. However, these potentially fallible teachings are necessary to contribute to the development of doctrine. Eventually, many fallible teachings progress to the point where they can be infallibly defined (such as when they become not only Ordinary, but Ordinary AND Universal). Thus, some teachings move from the Ordinary Magisterium to the Sacred Magisterium.

Example of Ordinary Magisterium includes the so-called Social Teachings of recent popes or theological opinions that the popes or bishops make public.

Those ARE the teachings of the church. You can choose to believe that or not, but in the spirit of ATS to deny ignorance, I have taken the time to try to educate you.

There are quite a few people that spread hatred against many religions. In today's society, as in the past, there is too much hatred in the world.
I see people on ATS that despise war, and that is good. Unfortunately, I see some of those people that then spout hatred against Muslims, Jews, Catholics, Christians, you name it. Well, that hatred is the CAUSE of most wars. We hate the Russians, the Russians hate us, etc.

If people want to eliminate war, and what sane individual wouldn't, then eliminate HATRED, and PEACE will follow. It's such a simple equation.

Peace, my friend.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


I find it funny that you think because Jesus gave the Apostles the power to forgive sins in His name, that all priests and popes do. Popes aren't even ordained by God, but by a council of cardinals who choose a pope. The "church" you claim to be the one Jesus founded has a few differences than the original apostolic church. For starters, the first century church of God celebrated the 7 holy day feasts commanded by God in Leviticus 23. Catholics and their protestant splinter groups celebrate holidays mixed with pagan tradition such as easter, christmas, halloween(all saints day), etc. Jesus never emphasized to celebrate His birth but to always honor His death.... which was on Passover, not "good friday" as mentioned in the gospels. He ressurrected during the middle of the "Feast of Unleavened Bread", not "easter". He was born sometime between march and october due to the fact that "shepherds were in the field at night tending to their flocks" which would not be done in the winter time. The Roman census would not take place in winter but most likely during a Holy Day pilgrimage like the "Feast of Tabernacles" when the masses would already be together. The Roman solar calendar is not the calendar used by the early church or Jews. Saturday remains the holy sabbath and was never changed by Jesus who called Himself "Lord of the Sabbath". It is a commandment that is to be kept and not changed. The crucifix cross, the symbol of catholicism is a form of idolatry which is something God and Jesus speak against. It is an image in the likeness of God, or in this case the Son of God. Hail Mary is a blasphemous practice because it's the worship of someone other than God. The Trinity is false doctrine because the holy spirit is not a seperate entity from God or Jesus but the presence of God. I can go on and on. His true church would remain small and persecuted throughout history. To this date there is a small number of true apostolic churches that follow all of God's laws and bylaws outside of the fulfilled laws of sacrifice. Many of these church congregations belonged to the 20th century church of God known as the Worldwide Church of God. They believed in the true doctrine of the Kingdom of God here on earth and that all are dead in the grave until the return of Christ and/or the judgement. This is supported by John 3:13 "no man has accended into heaven except He who came from heaven which is the Son of man who is in heaven." This shouldn't be an argument but that's what you turn it into. This is called "conspiracy in religions" and to me the catholic church with it's splinter groups are part of the deception satan has brought to the christian faith as the apostles of the new testament claimed was already going on in their time. Read your bible.... then think for a minute without the corrupt beliefs catholicism has drilled into your mind. That's what I had to do being raised up a baptist.

I grow weary.

Constantine made the Catholic Church, and Christian Religion for that matter.

History is not a point of discussion.

The only true church is the church inside people. The holy spirit lives in it, and it is protected by god. It is not built on the physical, it is built out of knowledge and understanding. The things that make a rich in the eyes of god is wisdom.

What is added and taken from it will also be the same in heaven. You can't take the physical with you, but you can take the knowledge and understandings you gain while here. What is forgotten here will be forgotten there. That is why these things are built here on earth and in heaven.



[edit on 6-12-2008 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


I tend to agree with his first statement. I am not sure why people make such a huge deal over the catholic when there are many churches that are full of paganism and mysticism.

Hell, the evangelical churches (the majority) are supporting the slaughtering and displacement of people in the middle east.

The pentecostal and charismatic churches practice occultism and mysticism.. it is just masked by the name of god (lower case and not hyphened because it is a false god).

Alot of baptist churches and mega churches are into social and material gain as well as unknowingly (which goes to show they know little about the book they profess they stand on) incorporating teachings of comprimise and acceptance of practices that book they throw in ppl's faces specifically forbids.

Most churches are full of crap.... yes, this includes the catholic church, but the other churches are just as retarded and full of the practices that they preach against.




[edit on 6-12-2008 by justamomma]

Originally posted by badmedia
The only true church is the church inside people.

No wonder I feel constipated all the time.

Lord Jesus, I'll follow you if you just get out of my ass.

And PLEASE take the steeple with you.

[edit on 6-12-2008 by DooRight]

If you read any of my earlier stuff, calling out the catholic religion includes the protestant splinter groups. Catholic and Protestant make up over 90% of all christian faiths. I use to be southern baptist and it was because of their fullness of fecal matter that I left and started researching for myself. It's true, the church is within us. The word church actually means, "to gather together" or "to meet". Jesus said, "where 2 or 3 meet, so shall I be present among you." The "church" I refer to are the 1st century followers of Christ which included His apostles and their teachings.... not the actual building "church" that the 90+% of christians congregate in today.

Originally posted by Locoman8
Catholic and Protestant make up over 90% of all christian faiths.

I'll take bull# made up numbers for $1000 Alex.

How about 100 percent?

Do tell about the ten percent of non-Catholic or Protestant Christians PLEASE.

Haven't seen that show on the History Channel yet.

How about "Apostolic Christians" or "Judeo-Christians" or even Jehova Witnesses? All christian but do not conform to traditional "fire and brimstone" beliefs. Don't mock the numbers. And the real number is probably around 95%-98% but I didn't want to put an exact so I said OVER 90%.