God is an Abortionist!

reply to post by miriam0566

then way do christians die? why do they get sick? why do they hurt like everyone else?

ALL sickness is sin related. EVERY bit of it. The Bible is FULL of examples of this.

"deliver us from evil" is not this daily thing that god does every day in our imperfect lives. the deliverance is god's plans for the future.

Give us THIS DAY our DAILY bread.

THIS DAY, Miriam, THIS DAY!

the isrealites begged for deliverance from pharoah, but didnt they have to work hard first. it was AFTER the 10 plagues that they were delivered and supplied for.

The Israelites received NONE of the plagues! They were in slavery because of SIN (again, it wasn't random chance...it was directly related to SIN!)

today we are living in the last days. armageddon is deliverance. until then, we suffer just like anyone else. but we have faith that god will undo all the things that go wrong.

I do believe we are living in the last days, but I deny that any Saint must resign themselves to sudden tragedy. Jesus said it TWICE:
Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Jesus shows us how to avoid tragedies: REPENT.

yes, in the future.

No, Jesus was talking about NOW.

you mention in the quote after that jesus never suffered except when god allowed him to. this is 100% true. but jesus was perfect. he not only deserved to live, but he also deserved protection. we are imperfect sinners, we deserve death. it is by the mercy of god that we are still alive.

As I SAID: All sickness and tragedy is sin related. It isn't some random thing that happens. One can AVOID sickness and tragedy by REPENTING.

I didn't just "make this up", Miriam. The Bible relates this to us in a very concrete and distinct manner.

paul shows a list. including a "thorn in the flesh" that god chose not to relieve him of. the apostles experienced miracle too, but they also suffered, sometimes by the consequences of thier sin and sometimes but time and unforseen occurance. most of the times god intervene was so that the preaching work could continue. not for personal gain.

Paul's thorn in the flesh was no "accident" AND God specifically told him the reason WHY he was given it. Paul got bit by a snake and suffered NOTHING from it.

the scripture in 1 cor talks about god calling us, not what he allows. even jesus talked of FUTURE blessing by saying whoever loses mothers in my name or children in my name will gain 10 fold in the furture. (i dont remmeber the exact quote)

I think you missed the point I was making. The "them" in Eccl. 9:11 are not Saints!

Furthermore, you had better look up the quote you've forgotten. Better yet, here it is:
Mark 10:29-30 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

Both now AND later.

why would jesus say that unless we actually could lose things?

get something straight. we do NOT deserve divine protection. not yet anyways. but god has promised in the FUTURE, that will change

Sigh...

Rather than type, I'll quote what the Bible says:

Psalm 91:9-12 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

The entire 91st Psalm is about Divine protection given to the Saints, NOW!

May I encourage you to read through this Psalm?

What about the wise man in Matt. 7:24-25?
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Time and time and time again, throughout the Bible, we are given promises of safety from God. These promises have a condition attached to them:

REPENT.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Originally posted by PreTribGuy

then way do christians die? why do they get sick? why do they hurt like everyone else?

ALL sickness is sin related. EVERY bit of it. The Bible is FULL of examples of this.

of course its sin related. we all sin, therefore we all die. we dont magically become perfect when we are baptised. if we are not perfect, then we cannot presume on god´s protection, even from accidents

Give us THIS DAY our DAILY bread.

THIS DAY, Miriam, THIS DAY!

bread has little to do with our salvation. even delivering us from evil has several meanings. it can also mean deliver us from temptation.

The Israelites received NONE of the plagues! They were in slavery because of SIN (again, it wasn't random chance...it was directly related to SIN!)

show me the scripture. first off, nowhere does it say that the oppression they felt was because of sin.

second, they felt the first 3 plagues. it wasnt until the 3 plague that god made a distinction. if that was because of sin, then what sin did they commit?

I do believe we are living in the last days, but I deny that any Saint must resign themselves to sudden tragedy. Jesus said it TWICE:
Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Jesus shows us how to avoid tragedies: REPENT.

so what your implying is that noone has been faithful, ever... because everyone who has lived has died

your confusing alot of things. your also blaming god. you implying that a tragedy is somehow the result of an action by god, and simply put, it isnt.

No, Jesus was talking about NOW.

ok, then give me a scriptural precedence for it. show me someone who is completely protected by god and who cant die.

As I SAID: All sickness and tragedy is sin related. It isn't some random thing that happens. One can AVOID sickness and tragedy by REPENTING.

I didn't just "make this up", Miriam. The Bible relates this to us in a very concrete and distinct manner.

your beliefs dont match up with reality. everyone dies. alot get sick. everyone suffers. your making it sound like god is this harsh sadistic man who punishes everyone that screws up.

if repenting protects you, then why dont christians live longer than people of other faiths? why do christians as a whole get affected by things like earthquakes and plane crashes?

it doesnt add up. jesus said that his followers would be persecuted for his name. that they would be killed. why? your reasoning doesnt explain any of this

Paul's thorn in the flesh was no "accident" AND God specifically told him the reason WHY he was given it. Paul got bit by a snake and suffered NOTHING from it.

where does it say that god gave it to him? are you implying that god would burden his follower?

Sigh...

Rather than type, I'll quote what the Bible says:

Psalm 91:9-12 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

The entire 91st Psalm is about Divine protection given to the Saints, NOW!

May I encourage you to read through this Psalm?

What about the wise man in Matt. 7:24-25?
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Time and time and time again, throughout the Bible, we are given promises of safety from God. These promises have a condition attached to them:

REPENT.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

so according to this, if i repent, my HIV will heal?

reply to post by jwstarry



Can of worms there. I think the problem is that you see God as being the same as you or I. A flesh being. God is love There is nothing fleshly or worldly about God. He is not concerned with the things of this world and he has instructed you to not be concerned with them either.

Our soul's are God's concern and a soul never dies. God said in the garden of eden after they had eaten the proverbial apple. Least they know they are like us. So he made a covering for adam and eve, not the skin of an animal but a flesh body.

The world was created to be perfect. God created the flesh bodies to be perfect to live forever as well. But who do you know in a flesh body who is perfect? Everyone worries. Worry affects you at a cellular level. Everyone is jealous, or envys or lies or something at some point in thier lives and all these things affect everthing around them including thier own bodies.

The father, the son, the holy ghost
The thought, the word, the action

think about it

reply to post by jwstarry


Can of worms there. The problem is that you think of God as someone like you. God is love. He has no fleshly body nor is he really concerned with what happens to our fleshly bodies. He is concerned with our souls and a soul never dies. I refer to God as a male only because its habit and a hard habit to break.

God is not concerned with worldly things and he has told us not to be concerned with wordly things either.

In the garden of eden he said after they had eaten the proverbial apple... Least they learn they are just like us..... so they were cast out of the garden of eden and given a skin to cover thier nakedness... not the skin of an animal but thier flesh skins.

God created this world perfectly so that everything worked perfectly and everything would live forever. Things like worry, anxiety, stress, hate, envy, greed.... all those things affect you on a molecular level and even now science is beginning to recognize this. So with all these emotions and extremes you are slowly killing the perfect body that you were given. Our bodies were never intended to eat meat for instance and that is why heart desease is the number one killer.

If you follow the teachings of jesus perfectly then you might live forever. You could even walk on water, remember? Peter walked on water then he got scared when Jesus approached and fell in. He lacked the perfect faith that would allow him to continue to walk on water but he had so much passion that Jesus built his church and put Peter in charge of it. Sometimes I wonder if perfect faith is even possible for more than an instant, just like in Peter's case when he was walking on water.

The bible has a lot of truths in it. There are stories there to illustrate the truths and like all history the stories are embelished and even changed but the simple truths are still there if you take the time to read and of course if you ask God for guidance you will be shown. Before you have even asked it will have been given to you.. if you have faith.

So remember the next time you scream that even though you can't hear it within a second or so the vibration of that scream continues out into the world and affects each person it touches on the way. Each time you have a hateful thought it creates a wave (brain waves are electrical sparks after all) that will affect things around you and continue forever. You really can think someone to death if you have the passion and the faith. lol If you don't then mostly liekly you will just cause them to have a ulcer. Ask any parent of a teenager for confirmation on this point. lol

The father, the son, the holy spirit

The thought, the word, the action/miracle

Think about it, question it, study it, ask God to explain it to you and listen for the answer, because God has more than one way to communicate with you. The answer you are looking for might be in the next song you hear on the radio, it may come from the lips of the next stranger you meet on the street. It could come to you in a dream.

"Be not forgetful to entertain strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares."

Originally posted by Chevy57Sue
He has no fleshly body nor is he really concerned with what happens to our fleshly bodies. He is concerned with our souls and a soul never dies.

ezek 18:[20] The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

reply to post by miriam0566


I apologize for the delay in responding Miriam.

Rather than go though each and every quote and discuss them, I'd prefer to get to the heart of (what seems to me to be) your question:

your beliefs dont match up with reality. everyone dies. alot get sick. everyone suffers. your making it sound like god is this harsh sadistic man who punishes everyone that screws up.

if repenting protects you, then why dont christians live longer than people of other faiths? why do christians as a whole get affected by things like earthquakes and plane crashes?

it doesnt add up. jesus said that his followers would be persecuted for his name. that they would be killed. why? your reasoning doesnt explain any of this

You are mixing things up a bit here. I never said Christians don't die. You know that Scripture says it is appointed unto man once to die. (Yet Jesus said the Saints will never taste death)

Also, "accidents" is not equal to "martyrdom".

Miriam, I don't like to "assign homework" to folks, but you've seemed receptive to extending your scholarship. I found (a long time ago) an article that is part of a book that I really REALLY like.

Here are the links:
www.apostasynow.com...

www.apostasynow.com...

The above article says (hopefully) exactly what I'm trying to say...but the article above says it much better than I can.

Anything that I would write, here on BTS, wouldn't say it as clear as this article. (IOW, this article speaks for me...I wish I would have written it.)

If this is too much, I apologize.

If you DO read it and want to discuss it, I'd feel happy to do so.

I am sorry for "assigning homework" like this. I am (myself...sometimes) frustrated when I am asked to read an article or watch a video in order to further participate in a discussion. I don't want to unrighteously take away even a second of anyone's time making them go do something that is not profitable to them.

If, after reading the article, you think it was a complete waste of time, I apologize. If it answers certain questions and brings up others, I'm fine to discuss them.

i like homework

i just cant this exact moment since its a big read

So basically your saying that you are smart enough to understand God's thought process?
Funny I have never read about you in any of the journals where the acclaimed genius's are published.

[edit on 11/26/2008 by DarrylGalasso]

In nature, animals are abortionists. Have you ever watched a cat or a dog with a new litter? Mom checks her young for imperfections and the dog will stop the imperfect ones from nursing, letting them starve while the cat will eat the imperfect ones. Saw it with my own eyes.

While I find the idea of an abortion as abominable as the pro-lifers, I also find the number of unloved kids in the world abominable.

It's a tough world we live in. Tough problems need tough solutions.

The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away! It is impossible for the Lord to be an abortionist, or murderer. The Lord put the soul in the body, and the Lord made the body, therefore the Lord has the right to take the life, because "the creator of anything" has the right to destroy his own creation.

For instance, if I were a painter, and I decided to burn all my paintings, then I would have the right to do so, right? Of course, because I am the "creator" of those paintings. If someone else stole "my creation" and burned those paintings, then they would be guilty of theft, and the destruction of property which does not belong to them. Who do we belong to? God!!! He created us, therefore, He has the right to take us from this world, anytime He so chooses! It is really simple!

~ Lonelypoet

reply to post by Lonelypoet

For instance, if I were a painter, and I decided to burn all my paintings,

Your paintings aren't alive and aren't born to people who have very strong bonds with those paintings. "The lord giveth and the lord taketh away"...therefore is an abortionist.

Good Wolf, you are a "Bad Wolf," because you have very bad logic, and unless you change your ways, then there is a special little room in "the abode below" reserved just for you, and the Lord will make sure of that!

~ Lonelypoet

Originally posted by Lonelypoet
Good Wolf, you are a "Bad Wolf," because you have very bad logic, and unless you change your ways, then there is a special little room in "the abode below" reserved just for you, and the Lord will make sure of that!

~ Lonelypoet

im sorry, but that is such an unchristian thing to say

Miriam, that is not unchristian, for the Bible tells us to warn people of Hellfire. Was it an "unchristian" thing for Jesus to say these words when answering the hypocritical Jews of his day?

"And Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceedeth forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murdering from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." (John 8:42-44). ~ King James Version

Jesus told them that they were "of their father the devil," and he told them that they were "murderers," just like their father(the devil), and that proved to be true later on, because Pontius Pilate allowed the Jews to take him and "crucify him." They murdered an innocent man!!!

Sometimes, dear lady, we have to get stern with people so that they will wake up and "see the truth," for some people will refuse to see the truth if they are constantly babied with it. They have to understand how serious it is, and sometimes that takes stern words to cause them to "get the point!"

~ Lonelypoet

reply to post by Lonelypoet


jesus could read mens hearts and can judge people righteously, you cannot. there is a difference.

second, you might want to do some more research on hellfire before you go around spitting it as a threat.

reply to post by miriam0566


it all depends on the way you look at it

Miriam, take your pompous little remarks elsewhere, because you don't impress me, you little Mother Theresa wanna-be. I am outta here, will leave all religious discussions on this site to the brainless idiots who think they know it all, and that includes all you clueless atheists and agnostics! I will stick to the regular conspiracy theories, because it does no good to argue with infidels.

That is my opinion, and I am sticking to it!

~ Lonelypoet

reply to post by Clearskies

Phewwwwww...

What a tragic, humbling story.

It's late in the day, but please accept my deepest sympathies.

Allow me also to say that - however foolish or wilful you may have been in your youth - I do not believe you are in any way a wicked person because of what happened. You suffered the terrible consequences of foolishness or wilfulness. We are human, we understand these things and we can never forget. It rends us. Yet sometimes nature takes her course in ways we would rather not. It is not fair to blame ourselves - or others - for what happens naturally.

I know such assurances do little to relieve those feelings of responsibility. I may be an atheist and a naturalist, but I'm a firm believer in the necessity - and utility - of guilt. May your life henceforward be filled with good things, that balance might be restored to your portion.

Down to business.

One reason why some of us are nonbelievers is because we decline to accept that any Creator could possibly have produced a Creation so amoral and wasteful of life. Whether or not God is an abortionist, he is - if he exists - quite keen on infant mortality. It's bad enough with humans, but when you look at the number of fry a sturgeon produces, and how few grow to maturity, the whole thing becomes ridiculous.

Oh yes, I forgot, the whole Creation is fallen, it's been tough on sturgeon fry ever since Adam got that apple stuck in his craw. Like it was their fault.

Beware the wrath of the Lord, he sure do have one Hell of a temper.

reply to post by Astyanax


Thank you Astyanax!
I don't live with the guilt anymore, but I also want to tell other women (young and old)
how an abortion can ruin your life.
Some women have had more than 1 abortion and don't think it's a bad thing.
I think there is a lot of suppression going on there.
I know when calamitous episodes occur, the human mind can block it out so that you can't even remember it happening, until a 'safe' environment much later. It happened to me.
I couldn't BELIEVE what I remembered later!
The mind is a powerful thing.
I wasn't a Christian when I had my abortion, but I still knew the truth.
A part of me died that day, besides the baby!
NOONE warned me or said anything to the contrary of ,"It's the best thing for you right now."
That was easy for them to say, because it wouldn't hang over THEIR head the rest of their days, or until they get it right with God.
I don't torture baby animals, but some people think it's O.K. for the Humans.
When we tell a woman that she ought to keep the baby, we'd better be prepared to give her all the help we can.
I think it's not going to help a woman to be at an abortion clinic yelling "Whore" or anything. Even if it's true.
There were no protestors at the one I went to, but I think if they had called me names and judged me, it wouldn't have changed my mind. I was FINE with it, till I did it!
Then I was so traumatized I spent 6 months in a mental hospital, getting worse and worse!
When I went to a sunday chapel service, I asked the preacher, "Why does God hate women?" He had no answer for me and I was NOT being facetious, I was curious. He quit coming and after that a priest came with NOT a word for any of us non-believers.
We just thought that he was handsome.