God is an Abortionist!

God is the giver of life and sometimes the taker as well, his ways are greater than ours and sometimes he is missunderstood. Can not the God who created do as he pleases?

Originally posted by jwstarry
Okay, First things first. I have a serious question and would like serious responses.

Well, perhaps you shouldn't make the claim that God is an abortionist for me to take you seriously.

All that was created was good, but not all that was done with good was good.

If I give you a cup of water, and it quenches your thirst, one could say that was good. But if I gave you a cup of water, and you choked on it and drowned, is God at fault? One may say it was your own error.

In todays day and age, there is no end to the number of contaminates, and things within our diet, or society that can cause birth related defects.If a woman was taking meth, and the fetus was malnourished, there is a good possibility shes going to lose it.

Fail safes in nature for reasons beyond our understanding exist. If the Lord does not speak, one cannot speak on behalf of the lord saying what his intent was, but merely present a gentle and healing approach and move beyond what is not understood.

To say God is an abortionist, is to say you believe in God. To declare God and then accuse him is IMO inconsiderate bordering on blasphemous.

Does the pottery tell the potter how it wishes to be formed, or orders his own creation? God does things that bring glory and understanding to himself and his will.

Which is worse? The unhealthy miscarriage, or the abortion that kills whether the child is healthy or not?

Should a woman lose a baby, who can say for what reason? Have you walked with the mother and seen her diet? Might she have been exposed to a chemical that caused a miscarriage? The condition of the womb, and a multitude of other factors are all in play.

There are near 4000 abortions every day in the United States.
126000 a day world wide.
47 Million abortions a year.

Some of those children die because their parents were wanting another sex, and yet others merely because of a lifestyle inconvenience.
Some of those children are killed after exiting the womb. Infanticide.

There are 47 Million abortions a year. More children die from abortion then the 3 years combined for WWI.

Miscarriage is a natural cycle, the discarding of the unhealthy or the possibility of less then ideal conditions in the womb.

Modern medicines is an unbiased killer. Healthy and unhealthy alike. Which if you took natural miscarriage and unhealthy abortion and let them cancel each other out, you would find that mankind is the one that even kills the healthy in a healthy womb.

Peace

[edit on 25-10-2008 by HIFIGUY]

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
you would find that mankind is the one that even kills the healthy in a healthy womb.

Peace

We are not talking about man and abortion we are talking about God and miscarriage.

You seem to forget that some women, even christian women, miscarriage despite being perfectly healthy. There are many women out there who are very infertile, and find it very difficult to have a successful death. Why doesn't God give a helping hand in this matter?

You can say "His ways are above ours" and "He made all, so he can do what he likes", but if he's killing babies unjustly, we have every right to get angry at the ant-incinerating-child that we call God.

reply to post by Good Wolf


I think it is summed up best the post previous to mine.

Originally posted by rikk7111
God is the giver of life and sometimes the taker as well, his ways are greater than ours and sometimes he is missunderstood. Can not the God who created do as he pleases?

The pot does not tell the potter how or what he must do.

Peace

reply to post by HIFIGUY


HIFIGUY, that doesn't answer my post. I don't like having to reiterate myself so don't make me.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
There are many women out there who are very infertile, and find it very difficult to have a successful death.

Wow, that's a hell of a typo. I meant birth.

reply to post by Good Wolf


As a matter of education, perhaps we should discuss some of the potential causes of miscarriage.

First, its important to note this.

Once fetal heart function is detected in a given pregnancy, the chance of miscarriage is less than 5%.

www.medicinenet.com...

So once a baby has a heart beat, things are good. However, there are a host of factors before one even gets to that 95% bracket which can be an issue.

Next chromosomes.

Problems in the chromosomes of the embryo, by far the most common reason for loss of pregnancy, are found in more than half of miscarriages occurring in the first 13 weeks. Miscarriages apparently eliminate about 95 percent of fertilized eggs or embryos with genetic problems—perhaps nature's way of ending a pregnancy in which the child would be unable to survive.

www.healthsquare.com...

Diabetes, lupus, and cardiovascular disease within the mother, are but a few other hazards. Even caffeine can be a potential cause.

The miraculous creation of life and the baby require the womb of the mother. An environment, that if not healthy, will not carry a child to term. Sickness, and poor health can be a risk to the mother as well as the child.

But when one points the finger at God, in a manner of disrespect and anger, might it be said the following?

Surely God does not make the mother or father smoke or drink.
Surely God, does not make one use drugs.
Surely God, does not cause the toxic contaminates to be dumped into your water.
Surely God, does not put the pesticide on the vegetables you use.
Surely God, does not put the growth hormones in beef and other meat products.

How about nuclear issues? Chernobyl and radiation. Absolutely horrific figures come from Russia years after their nuclear meltdown.

www.geocities.com...

Other reports give details of such problems as 50% drop in birth rates in Belarus with a steady rise in miscarriages and birth defects.

Poor practices through the generations both in personal health and society, can lead to the cumulation of problems one experiences today. Its no difference in life, then it is in the incubation of a new born baby. When you eat enough lead, things just go bad.

Its identifying those causes that minimize the potential for possilbe negative effects. Its why America has a higher birth rate then other nations, and some poorer nations, lesser nourished or medically able, have extremely high death rates.

The miscarriage is a protection system when conditions are not ideal, or have compromised to the point where its possible neither the mother or the child will survive.

Peace


[edit on 26-10-2008 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by HIFIGUY


So when does God come into play or does he have nothing to do with birth? It might be worth noting that I agnostic and am not pointing the finger in anger.

reply to post by jwstarry


No.

Everything that happens to you, happens for a reason. As stories have morals, the things we go through in life have deep spiritual lessons, that are saddled up next to them.

Some people will never understand and some will figure it out.

People grieve, but I'm telling you - God grieved first.

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct


"God grieved first" Well that's all very well and good but you are telling me that God purposely kills babies and fetuses just to teach a lesson. That's sick and demented. Do you know how mentally damaging miscarriage and the death of a child is?! That's not the works of a good being.

reply to post by Good Wolf


I'm just stating my beliefs, I apologize if they make you uncomfortable.

Why are you upset with him? It was your ancestors that failed to listen to the initial warning. At least put the blame where it belongs.

Of course I understand all the emotions that accompany death of any sort, wheather it be a child, a parent or even a pet. In fact, I have a nephew, who is a very special young man and it's been difficult, but at the same time it's been very precious to watch him grow over the last fifteen years. But he'll never be able to live out on his own, he'll never drive a car, get married or anything remotely close to that, yet he's our little angel.

Failing to listen has caused all this heartbreak.

I wonder, how many people actually cry with God, instead of to God?







[edit on 27-10-2008 by Myrtales Instinct]

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct


I'm agnostic. I used to be a christian so I'm not upset by your beliefs, I used to hold them to.

Secondly, your ignoring my point. Can you really justify a God doing such things just to make a point.

reply to post by Good Wolf


I'm not ignoring your point. You think God is to blame, and I don't. I believe things were not supposed to be this way and that one day God will make all things new and none of this depressing crap will be remembered.

I still believe in him and his promises.

But you said:

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
Everything that happens to you, happens for a reason. As stories have morals, the things we go through in life have deep spiritual lessons, that are saddled up next to them.

So what is it? Is he responsible or not? If he isn't then what is he responsible for?

You think God is to blame, and I don't.

You are putting words in my mouth. I don't think God is to blame, I'm just arguing from that POV.
I am agnostic, after all. I'm not convinced there is a God, let alone a personal God. Not that that has anything to do with this.

[edit on 10/27/2008 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by Good Wolf
Well personally, I would agree. "Cause and effect" but most people who believe in God feel that everything happens for a reason and not just a circumstantial reason. Most believe in a God who has a plan for their life, at least for all the most significant events in their lives.

thats why i quoted ecclesiastes, it disagrees with them

Don't you think a new life is to important to leave to circumstances? Don't you think that kind of lack of nurturing from God is kind of irresponsible.

what you deeling with here is a much bigger question. one that includes "why does god permit suffering?"

the short answer is that god promises to undo all the pain that we feel. whether that is a mother grieving for her child or the child who didnt have the oppurtunity to live.

so no, its not a lack of nurturing on gods part.

if you want a more indepth answer let me know

reply to post by miriam0566


I'm not asking the question 'why does God permit suffering'.

Someone earlier on said that this kind of thing is Gods way of giving lessons to people (or some other sort of purpose) when this is pretty much tantamount to mental torture for the people directly involved. How is that kind of behavior benevolent?

No one has given a strait answer yet without dodging the question or rerouting the answer (cept for those people who hint at the idea that God is more distant and less responsible for the events of or life).

reply to post by Good Wolf


I've had a miscarriage and it was NOT mental torture, like when I had an abortion!
KNOWING you killed a little baby IS mental torture!

reply to post by Clearskies


You are not representative of all those in the world who have had a miscarriage, though my empathy goes to you. A friend of mine. Holly, was 17 when she miscarried. She almost killed herself a month later, almost. For her losing her child for no apparent reason was mental torture. Hell, the fact that it happened in the first place was so emotionally damaging that she didn't really think about a 'reason' till log after.

[edit on 10/27/2008 by Good Wolf]

reply to post by Good Wolf

Yeah.. apparently alot of women experience guilt and shame following miscarriage wondering if they inadvertently caused it in some way.

reply to post by Good Wolf

Thanks.
Well, as I said earlier, I was not mentally stable enough to take care of a baby with no husband, PRIMARILY FROM the abortion I had already had.
I was suicidal and a drug abuser.
When God took the baby(and I was NO Christian) I knew it was for the best.
I grieved a LITTLE, but, I knew the baby was probably better off.
People can get counseling for miscarriage.