BANGKOK-Police throw bombs into a 30,000 strong crowd.

The first thing I have to wonder about has already been mentioned here in this thread... Frags shred, not remove. It may only be a bone and ripped flesh on it, but I can't remember seeing one blow an apendage off. Odd. Also, I have to wonder what type of warnings that the crowd might have not heeded. Now, I'm not taking anysides here, but We all remember the guy getting run over by the tank in Red Square, we just forget that he laid himself in it's way....

reply to post by sos37


lol so bush was just kidding about how it would be so much easier if the us was a dictatorship..., as long as he was the dictator...lolol

Wake up dude...

A Democracy can become a Dictatorship overnight.

When it dose, those laws that protect you are thrown out..

[edit on 10/9/2008 by Ironclad]

I am currently in BK on my last day of holiday.

Have not seen any unrest in my parts of town, nor heard much of it. It is on the tv but not in huge big way considering what it is. Reporting seems reasonably neutral in the stories that air suprizingly, it seems to have a slight govt positive lean (stop unrest but okay to protest??) however which is to be expected. They are covering both voices in the struggle which is good to see. E.g. leaders of PAD covered in an interview. It could be better and more widespread, also analyzed in depth a lot more in retrospect.

I was hoping to go find the protests (and stay a little back) and get some good HD footage but I have run out of time. If I get time tomorrow morning which I doubt I will try my best.. would be nice to have some ATS exclusive footage eh!

In other news there was a beautiful electrical storm this evening.. good 1.5-2 hours

[edit on 9/10/08 by GhostR1der]

edit: found where it is... 275km one way and a plane to catch at midday is a no go. It's 0200 already :/ Sorry guys n' gals.. if I could I would!

[edit on 9/10/08 by GhostR1der]

Originally posted by Ironclad
reply to post by sos37

 

lol so bush was just kidding about how it would be so much easier if the us was a dictatorship..., as long as he was the dictator...lolol

Wake up dude...

A Democracy can become a Dictatorship overnight.

When it dose, those laws that protect you are thrown out..

[edit on 10/9/2008 by Ironclad]

Uh, yeah he was kidding. People in government are allowed to make jokes, too.

And you're absolutely wrong about America becoming a dictatorship overnight. The whole point of having a president with a Congress that has the power to override the president means that a system of checks and balances is in place. There is no way that one man or woman can take absolute and unchecked control over this country unless Congress and the Supreme Court were somehow abolished.

Don't you get it? That was the whole idea behind the United States in the first place! The founding fathers envisioned a place where the states had power to make their own laws and decisions and the government played very little role in those decisions. The Democratic party today would have you believe that the government is the solution to everything!

You really need to pay attention in political science class and quit listening to John Stewart and Keith Olbermann.

from: www.nytimes.com...

The movement’s leaders have also called for changes to Thailand’s electoral system, reducing the weighting of votes from rural and lesser-educated Thais.

This is where it can get interesting, can anyone provide a small social history of this?

I wonder why this would be. Certainly, if rural or lesser educated Thais had their votes less counted- Wouldn't it then be easier to take advantage of the poor, for the more powerful to take away/exploit their resources, land, people?

I've unfortunately always reacted at this with a skeptical eye concerning who's right or wrong, who's better or worse. I do not agree with the grenade attacks by the army- I also do not agree with some of the ideas of those who want in power, particularily Sondhi Limthongkul, media mogul and leader of the opposition party.

If rural or less educated Thais lose power, then in my opinion, more prostitutes, more labor slaves, more civil unrest.

It is my understanding that Sondhi Limthongkul, is not a native Thai. He was birthed by Chinese immigrant parents (Approx 5% of the population of Thailand), and has been implicated in shady business related matters.

Elites prowl the world- They are of every colour.




[edit on 9-10-2008 by star in a jar]

Originally posted by sos37
Yes, because we have laws which keep us in check. I can't see police in this country ever doing this, due to fear of prosecution and fear of what happens to policemen in prisons. Not necessarily because they don't WANT to, but because they are afraid of what would happen to them.

When there are already amendments that have been recently passed that trump our rights, like the Patriotic Act, how can you be so sure? They only need to make it legal, or put the police actions in a context that supports their case. People don’t seem to realize there are several loop holes that make it EASY for the government to screw us over technically legally, if they really wanted to. The Presidential Directive could give a president the authority to have overwhelming police state power over the people in a crisis that involves terrorist attacks, or even what is going on now- a financial crisis.

this justifies a citizenry of the world rationalisation effort to kick back the dominant fascist fearmongering of the servants of hate, lies and greed.

THis disgusts me, and everyone like these so called police should be detained then jailed..everyone "like" them..

The world is showing its anger towards underminers of peace and justice. When those that are supose to defend it do this, its a messed up world.

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage

Originally posted by sos37
Yes, because we have laws which keep us in check. I can't see police in this country ever doing this, due to fear of prosecution and fear of what happens to policemen in prisons. Not necessarily because they don't WANT to, but because they are afraid of what would happen to them.

When there are already amendments that have been recently passed that trump our rights, like the Patriotic Act, how can you be so sure? They only need to make it legal, or put the police actions in a context that supports their case. People don’t seem to realize there are several loop holes that make it EASY for the government to screw us over technically legally, if they really wanted to. The Presidential Directive could give a president the authority to have overwhelming police state power over the people in a crisis that involves terrorist attacks, or even what is going on now- a financial crisis.

But that police state power is NOT unchecked power. Even wielding that kind of power, the president, whoever it is, could not issue directives to, say, go out and slaughter children in Harlem. There are directives in place to deal with abuses of power. Remember, both Democrats and Republicans voted in favor of the Patriot Act. It wasn't a Republican majority.

reply to post by sos37

But that police state power is NOT unchecked power. Even wielding that kind of power, the president, whoever it is, could not issue directives to, say, go out and slaughter children in Harlem. There are directives in place to deal with abuses of power. Remember, both Democrats and Republicans voted in favor of the Patriot Act. It wasn't a Republican majority.

Some of the power is actually unimpeded and is extremely flexible with loose definitions, and trumps other amendments that oppose such power. That is why several of the anti-terrorist legislations or amendments that have led us to this onslaught of unconstitutional power have been vehemently opposed and several politicians have worked to abolish or correct these amendments from day one.

Why did you feel you needed to remind me about who voted for the act? I know who voted for the act, that is not even relevant to our discussion, if anything it shows our entire government’s lack of regard for the people when pressed with fear tactics, don’t think the same fear tactics can not push police or military officials into doing something they’d usually morally object to or may find deplorable afterwards.

Wow... this is truly disgusting... whoever, whyever, whatever the cause of this may be.

Not too long ago I was so incredibly optimistic that things in the world were on the up and up. Education levels on the rise, technology and science in a flourish, the longest stretch of conflict free Europe since sticks and stones, the information superhighway loaded with freedom... and now...

And now everything seems to have turned to absolute s**t! Why must those who want to live in peace and prosperity, with honesty and integrity have to endure our lives being thrashed about between wars, economic crises and hatred by the 2% of those so selfish and greedy they would rather destroy the lives of millions of people rather than drop below an income bracket of millions of dollars.

Human civilization is supposed to progress, move forward in our quest of enlightenment and emancipation from suffering. But all around us we see no change, for thousands of years, we still wage wars and kill each other, silently consent to the starvation and genocide of hundreds of thousands.

We are one human species on this planet, we are all the same, we all have one vision of living peacefully within the company of our diversity. How can this dream be squandered year by year, decade by decade, millennium by millennium. I am beyond breaking point We are all beyond our petty insignificant differences

F**k the ruling elites who don't give a s**t about us! We have to do something now, and today to end this suffering forever. We cannot wait anymore for another generation to do this for us. I refuse to believe we are doomed to live in conflict for the rest of our existence, even for the rest of our lifetimes!

I am tired of having to convince myself into optimism on a daily basis. The future is now. We must act today!

Just as economic deterioration spreads across the globe, so will violence of this nature. This is the shape of things to come here in the US and other countries. By the way, www.enterprisecorruption.com is down. No surprise.

I have just checked this thread since I posted it am I am happy to see people do care. I was watchng the coverage on CNN, BBC and thai channels from my hotel in an upmarket area of Bangkok, about 3 -4 km from the protests.

A few points to note here that are of utmost importance.

-Last time similar events unfolded here in 1992, hundreds, possibly thousands of peaceful protestors were massacred in the streets as police and various army factions sought to support corrupt government by inihilating peaceful protestors. Thais are so ashamed of this day that it is rarely spoken of, and the current king who settled the factions in the aftermath by forgiving all parties, is worshiped with god like status. He is seen as the an individual who represents thai buddhist tolerance. His forgiveness stopped a nation falling into civil war.

-In 1992 few images were ever seen out of Bangkok as troops were ordered to confiscate all film at the airport (so only a few generic photos were shown on international tv).

Thais, in their way, did not understand the potential time bomb they created by not talking about that fateful day. There were two previous events in the 1970's. All similar in that peaceful protests in a young developing democracy were crushed by wealthy dictators. It is a very complicated history and hard to find out about in english, although information and books are available in the west.

-The current problem flares due to the irresponsible and selfish actions of Taksin, who fled to UK. All charges against him were well known and he was nearly not allowed to but MCFC due to his reputation, although after an investigation his bid was accepted.

-This event was all over the thai papers and even the government and army ran tv channels.

-THE REPORTING ON BBC AND CNN WAS PLAYED DOWN. Everything regarding this man is painted in a light like he is a victim. He obviously has friends in high places outside Thailand. And it was not for lack of information. Bangkok is a huge city and hundreds of international journalist were there a few days ago. Photos and footage document everything that occured, including the police with the bombs.

-Many police were also injured when the protest did get out of hand. It seems the few who instigated the violence may have been paid to do so. A common practice here.

Children and elderly citizens were severly injured. They were gathering in a peaceful thai manner, singing thai song and eating food.

So it is very obvious that he reporting of the events were watered down in the west. Or at least the story presented was not accurate journalism.

We always knew the corporate media had become a joke but examples like this show just how far it has gone.

When we watch news from Somalia or Georgia or anywhere far from where one is, it is so clear now that everyone must seek alternative media if they want the truth.

Palast, Pilger and Chomsky and other great investigative journalists have been telling us for years.........

YOUR TELEVISION LIES!

Thanks to everyone for taking note of this story.

BTW = Thailand is a wonderful country full of great people. Thais are loyal to their king, and they are shattered that these events have happened again.

The deaths wont be in vain if people in UK can take note of the man behind this horror and demand he answers to his country.

He could also explain the billions of dollars he accumalated thru corruption. This fact seems to be been ignored as well.



[edit on 9-10-2008 by serpentine]

Reply to Star in a Jar.......

It is said that with the unique thai ways that pure democracy will not work here. I think what PAD want is experts in charge of folios they know about. So for example the minister in charge of immigration should actually know about Burma and the problems faced here by the millions of illegal burmese. Not some MP that doesn't give a hoot. I try not to get of point.

They don't want proxies, which is what the last two have been. Completely incapable and still answering to a man who seeks exile from shocking crmes in the UK.

Ask any thai about a local problem in their region, and then ask them what the chances are that the MP will actually bring it up in the house and try to fix it.

It seems here (all parties included) that once someone makes it to government it is just a ticket to line the pockets. Thais do get angry but at the same time hold this respect for "higher" people, meaning it is unheard of to kick up a fuss if someone is a "phi yai" (big man). It is the reaction or the consequences they are afraid of, as the events we just saw show.

For sure there would have been a few hard line activists amongst the PAD mob, but now the cops are getting away with saying they blew their own limbs off with bombs they brought to the protest.

Even when there is photos of the cops with the bombs.




[edit on 9-10-2008 by serpentine]

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
reply to post by sos37

 

But that police state power is NOT unchecked power. Even wielding that kind of power, the president, whoever it is, could not issue directives to, say, go out and slaughter children in Harlem. There are directives in place to deal with abuses of power. Remember, both Democrats and Republicans voted in favor of the Patriot Act. It wasn't a Republican majority.

Some of the power is actually unimpeded and is extremely flexible with loose definitions, and trumps other amendments that oppose such power. That is why several of the anti-terrorist legislations or amendments that have led us to this onslaught of unconstitutional power have been vehemently opposed and several politicians have worked to abolish or correct these amendments from day one.

If that's true, and some madman in the presidency were to issue an order that members of Congress knew to be morally wrong, don't you think they would call him or her on it? This is where my faith in humanity kicks in - where the loophole begins, my faith also begins that the seeds of humanity are not lost by those in power in our nation. Let me rephrase as I tend to talk in gibberish sometimes when I try to make a point.

It makes sense for a true dictator in a dictatorship-type government to surround themself with corrupt, morally bankrupt individuals who have no problems carrying out the orders that violate clear boundaries of right and wrong. But America is a Democracy. Or senators and representatives aren't decided by an electoral college - they are put into place by popular vote, and we trust that the majority of people putting them into power also favor morality. So when a president, possibly evoking the Patriot Act, goes off the deep end and orders something truly despicable, I would expect those around him or her to intervene until the loophole could be closed.

I don't believe that was the case in the bailout. I do believe most of these senators and reps were acting in what they thought needed to be done, and we all agreed, something did need to be done. We just didn't agree on what.

Why did you feel you needed to remind me about who voted for the act? I know who voted for the act, that is not even relevant to our discussion, if anything it shows our entire government’s lack of regard for the people when pressed with fear tactics, don’t think the same fear tactics can not push police or military officials into doing something they’d usually morally object to or may find deplorable afterwards.

That was mostly for you and not anyone else, because I've seen you posting in the Decision 2008 forum. Honestly though I can't remember whether you had a bias toward Obama or not, now. At the time of the original post I was thinking it was Obama.

This is the last straw. I don't know what is more infuriating, the abhorrent coverage or the event itself. When I say don't trust a word from the MSM, I'm dead serious. These pictures are on the web, they are accessible proof. This is some scary corruption folks.

reply to post by sos37

don't you think they would call him or her on it?

The Patriot Act trumping the Bill of Rights was morally wrong and unconstitutional; many in our government who were involved passed it with ease, and ignored or demonized those who opposed it. In desperate times or times of fear and trepidation people do stupid, unmoral or unethical things. I simply have to disagree with you on this issue, in reality neither of us can know for sure though can we? We do not know the future, only the past, and history has swung both ways.

That was mostly for you and not anyone else, because I've seen you posting in the Decision 2008 forum. Honestly though I can't remember whether you had a bias toward Obama or not, now. At the time of the original post I was thinking it was Obama.

Why post it for me when it was not relevant to the topic and I never claimed either party was more responsible? In fact I didn’t bring any party into the discussion, you did. I simply don’t see the point, this is a completely non-partisan issue, and I hope we can keep it that way. As for decision 2008 I won’t address that here because it would be off topic.




[edit on 9-10-2008 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

Divine intervention will be the only way, when 1 day all people are enlightened and walk with God, then there will be no corruptions and we will have a utopia.

*dies laughing* Do you REALLY think God cares one whit for the poor? If he did, WE wouldn't be swimming up to our neck in sewage while the rich take our money and go have a party!




[edit: change code tags to quote tags]
Quoting - Please review this link

[edit on 10-10-2008 by 12m8keall2c]

Originally posted by srsen
I will recieve a warning or worse if i truely express my feelings about this issue.

Having travelled to Thailand a number of times i love the country and it's people and am INFURIATED by what is occuring there.

This world is getting quite simply ridiculous. I saw a snippet of the news last night and they were reporting on a bloody 'fan day' for a popular sporting team here (In Sydney) and yet did i see or hear anything about this hideous act against these unarmed protesters? Hell no.

I have almost had enough of this crap.

It annoys me too what the media in sydney chooses to report too.
If there were an asteroid heading towards earth, whilst we won football against NZ, they would probably give that more coverage!

I'm sure it's probably the same the world over though.

reply to post by serpentine


Have you tried emailing links to the police agencies in Thailand? The policemen do as they're told. When they begin to educated themselves as to whom is their true master. An internal coup will take place. The police have families too.

Same idea works here in the US or any other country. The truth needs to get out before any 'justice' will prevail. Most have not a clue what many here on ATS now know.

Originally posted by Jkd Up
The first thing I have to wonder about has already been mentioned here in this thread... Frags shred, not remove. It may only be a bone and ripped flesh on it, but I can't remember seeing one blow an apendage off. Odd. Also, I have to wonder what type of warnings that the crowd might have not heeded. Now, I'm not taking anysides here, but We all remember the guy getting run over by the tank in Red Square, we just forget that he laid himself in it's way....

I'm sorry but I have to call this out as completely ignorant. First of all, who CARES what amount of warning they gave, there is no excuse for this appalling abuse of power. Did you even look at the photos? And secondly, it's Tienanmen square, not red square. And the "tank man" was not run over by the tank at that time, no one really knows what happened to him except the chinese government. The photo is probably the most awe-inspiring thing I've ever seen and is a testament to the courage of the human spirit.

upload.wikimedia.org...

[edit on 9-10-2008 by CapsFan8]

[edit on 9-10-2008 by CapsFan8]