Anti-sematism on ATS should not be tolerated.

Originally posted by kidflash2008
reply to post by Frankidealist35

 

1. I am not promoting hate, I just think people can hate if they want. Hate speech is protected just like all other types of speech. You have a right to respond to it, as you have been doing. Just because I am defending the rights of those who choose to hate, does not mean I am full of hate. I am just a person who defends the right of free speech no matter how vile it is.

I understand that i just think that hating is wrong.

]

2. Again, I am not denying the Holocaust or the terrible atrocities committed by Hitler and others (Stalin) during the war. It is the numbers that are not truly known. I think the number 2 million is just as horrifying as 6 million.

Okay, I misunderstood you, I thought you were denying the events of the holocaust.

3.The USS Liberty was a listening ship, not a warship. They were attacked unprovoked by the Israelis. The ship was desperately radioing the Israelis to stop, but the attack went on to assure no survivors. This was because the ship had monitored some atrocities committed by Israel against the Arab soldiers (shooting prisoners of war in the back, etc). The American flag was quite visible on the ship, and it was noted in some of the Israeli transcripts of what happened. LBJ is at fault for not punishing Israel for the cowardly act. The story is in James Bamford's excellent book "Body of Secrets" (2002). The author uncovered many documents on what happened.

I see. I don't have an opinion on the matter.

I don't believe that many people, sane people anyway, would ever argue that hating is wrong.
But what is far more dangerous, is to silence those voices that disagree with us.

Also one must consider who gets to decide what hate speech is and what it is not?

Hitler took that upon himself and see what happened there.

Freedom of speech is perhaps the most precious of all freedoms and the most aggressively guarded must be that speech we personally do not agree with. Why?

Because it is easy to protect what we agree with. It is much harder to stand for that which we find abhorrent. Yet in order to provide for freedom for us all, that is exactly what we must do.

Concerning the OP's post on page one of this thread. The assumption seems to take place ..a given ..that to criticize the Jews or Semites is to hate them. This is not true.

I have noticed a trend among many that to not go along with a preconceived position is to hate. I don't go along with this.

To state anything to which some do not agree about semitic peoples is to somehow trespass on decency. These people who do not agree with any type of pro semitic position are somehow guilty of not going along with a "default" setting which everyone knows is automatically allowed to play through unquestioned..unchallanged. I don't happen to think so.

I happen to think that semitic peoples are subject to the same scrutiny and criticism as is anyone else..no default settings to be allowed to play through unquestioned..unaccountable....undebated.

I also agree with what Sonya posted on the first page of this thread ...the Palestinians are also Semites. I cannot imagine how some people think that semites are only one group of peoples. They are depending on the continued ignorance of many out here to play through unquestioned and unaccountable, undebated. I don't buy into this position. Some of us do in fact know that the Palestenians and many of the Arabs are indeed Semites.

Some of us ..however few can... indeed think outside the box of what some have spent a lot of time instituting in our brains as "PC." I don't have any use for such censorship as "PC." "PC" is a cheap confidence trick and it is indeed censorship and often attempts to pass itself off as the moral high ground.. It has become quite common today and often used and misused by a religion called politics. Also remember that Politics pays for our public educations..thus reinforcing "PC" without many of us establishing the tools to use critical thinking skills.

For some reason there seems to be a heavier concentration of peoples who can think outside the box of "PC" and other forms of censorship here on ATS/BTS. I am glad for this...even though I don't always agree with many of the positions of the posters here.

I too do not think such censorship should be allowed. On the basics of civility and decorum yes..but on opinions no.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
For some reason some people are thinking it's okay to hate the Jews and I think this kind of talk shouldn't be tolerated. Yes, there may be a conspiracy of bankers, and they may supposedly be Jewish themselves, but that isn't representative of ALL Jews, and, there may be people who deny the holocaust, but YES, 6 million people did die, and they are Hitler sympathizers, we know Hitler was bad. This act of denial shouldn't be allowed on the internet. W

Actually wasn't it 11 million people who died, of which about half were jews?? That is what we were taught in history class.

Furthermore, while some people probably shouldn't be allowed to have their voices heard, or their opinions given to anyone other than the imaginary friend in their head; in Canad and the USA, we have a free speech thing going on, we are allowed to tell each other what we believe, as wrong and weird as it might be.

Personally I believe that Hitler was evil, and made some very strange decisions, which some people would say were stupid, but I would theorize that his EQ (emotional quotient) was higher than his IQ (intelligence quotient): (go read about what he did politically and strategically during the war) he made some decisions that weren't based on logic due to this fact.

n addendum to my post would be:

While I am anti-religious, I would defend your right to be religious, because of the values I have as a person, and my believe that nobody should be oppressed, even if they do have the same imaginary friend they had when they were 5.

Originally posted by Davood

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
For some reason some people are thinking it's okay to hate the Jews and I think this kind of talk shouldn't be tolerated. Yes, there may be a conspiracy of bankers, and they may supposedly be Jewish themselves, but that isn't representative of ALL Jews, and, there may be people who deny the holocaust, but YES, 6 million people did die, and they are Hitler sympathizers, we know Hitler was bad. This act of denial shouldn't be allowed on the internet. W

Actually wasn't it 11 million people who died, of which about half were jews?? That is what we were taught in history class.

Yes, but 6 million of them were Jews. I got my facts wrong. I think that denying that the holocaust is just simply wrong. People can deny what was going on and how much of it actually was Hitler's fault but I don't believe that people should say Hitler didn't do anything.

Furthermore, while some people probably shouldn't be allowed to have their voices heard, or their opinions given to anyone other than the imaginary friend in their head; in Canad and the USA, we have a free speech thing going on, we are allowed to tell each other what we believe, as wrong and weird as it might be.

People should be able to have their own opinions and they can hate if they want to. But, I've seen some extreme hate here on ATS and I imagine that it would be like that around other places in the world... I just think that this hate can get out of hand if you see what I'm saying.

Personally I believe that Hitler was evil, and made some very strange decisions, which some people would say were stupid, but I would theorize that his EQ (emotional quotient) was higher than his IQ (intelligence quotient): (go read about what he did politically and strategically during the war) he made some decisions that weren't based on logic due to this fact.

I don't believe that he had that much EQ. I think his IQ was more because he was very calculating.

reply to post by Frankidealist35


Public opinion is like the ocean, it changes back and forth consistantly, I'm willing to bet in 50 years people will just take hitler's atrocities for granted because it happened "over 100 years ago"

And then some historian will squeeze his pet theory out to the masses and people will buy it, then a few years later it will get squashed by people who's grandparents were part of the holocaust who will come forward and 'testify' to the atrocities

Hopefully the truth is never lost, but until we start replaying historical events with video and sound, there is always room for storytelling (unfortunately).

What really gets me is the people who've taken the idea of hitler and nazi-ism, and suddenly applied it to everything on ATS.... WTF????? since when does hitler committing suicide in his bunker equal him being an alien and abducting people for experimentation. If he was alive, why do the racists in the bible belt lack advanced technology that all the half-assed theorists keep claiming he has? anyways i digress... people are creatively lazy and hitler is a popular topic for good or ill

About Hitler,

I get so tired of the body politic and so many pseudo intellectuals using Hitler as the standard for evil in this world.

The reason I get disgusted with this trend is that it is often used privily on people...unawares to automatically ...like a default setting...to get people on the bandwagon. Why ....because they used the name Hitler...they must be correct ...I must automatically stamp my seal of approval on whatever issue or cause uses Hitler in their debate points.

Whenever I see or hear of our whorish politicians using the name Hitler to describe the latest bad guy to come across the media speakers or boob tube screens...I automatically know I am supposed to ...I am required to..stop thinking for myself and put the stamp of approval on the latest trend and or PC issue. Hitler has become a default setting to play through unquestioned ..unaccountable...and without debate or thinking. It is a get out of jail pass..get $200.00 and play through.

Well....I will think for myself thank you. I will watch and check out the motives of whoever or whatever is using or misusing the name Hitler.

I am well aware of other names who have done as bad or worse than Adolph Hitler and yet we hardly hear their names today. Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung, Joseph Stalin, the various leaders in Yugoslavia in the 1990s, Slobodan Milosevic comes to mind.
There are numerous leaders in South and Central America who also fit this bill or menu.

Nonetheless I don't automatically get on the bandwagon when I hear the name Hitler as do so many without thinking. I will think it through for myself.

Remember this whenever your local or national politicians use the name Hitler for the next person they want to get us on the bandwagon with them for our votes of approval. This is an important clue that you are supposed to stop thinking for yourself.

Think for yourself..the use or misuse of the word Hitler does not automatically mean to me that the user has the moral ethical high ground and I should automataically cede the ground to them. I will think for myself thank you.

Deny Ignorance is the motto here...think ..dont react. The word Hitler is designed privily to evoke a reaction, to get you on the bandwagon, automatically....not to stimulate thinking.

Whenever I hear our leaders use the word Hitler...I automatically think to myself..."here we go again!!" 'And I have heard them use/misuse this word many times over the last 30 years.

Thanks,
Orangetom


[edit on 22-1-2009 by orangetom1999]

freedom of of speech buddy

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
For some reason some people are thinking it's okay to hate the Jews and I think this kind of talk shouldn't be tolerated. Yes, there may be a conspiracy of bankers, and they may supposedly be Jewish themselves, but that isn't representative of ALL Jews, and, there may be people who deny the holocaust, but YES, 6 million people did die, and they are Hitler sympathizers, we know Hitler was bad. This act of denial shouldn't be allowed on the internet. We know that these certain events happened and just because they seem outside of the imagination of many doesn't mean that they didn't happen. I think that there needs to be a rule against anti-Semiticism or anti-any religion posts here on ATS to prevent flamewars against people from various religious sects who would get offended by such talks. Most notably are the people who deny the holocaust to be cool... they try to claim their free speech is violated when they argue against the holocaust... they try to support Hitler... but when they know what really happened. There needs to be a rule against this. I'm getting sick of these denial threads.

I havent read all of the posts in this thread, but I just have to say, I agree. Anti-semetism, just like any other outward prejudice should not be tolerated.

However, all of the accusations of anti-semetism should be treated the same. No longer can anyone speak anything negative about anyone of jewish decent without being accused of being an anti-semite. If you speak out against israel, the accusations fly. It's quite pathetic really, and should be considered in the same light as true anti-semetism.:bash: