When your close friends/family are "sheeple..."

Several of my family members are what we would define as "sheeple." This is very apparent to me lately, in discussing the bailout bill.

They simply will not wake up to what is happening.

I'm not even talking about a difference of opinion, but the sort of "They're from the government, of course they have our best interests at heart!" mentality.

I'm writing this after someone very close to me said she would have no problem with Boy George essentially becoming a dictator, so long as it was best for the people.

If it was a stranger on the street, or someone I knew casually, I would have no problem debating them point by point, but how do you cope, ATS, when you see a family member that you love?

I findmyself caugny between wanting to "wake them up" for their own good, and avoiding the conflict that would come from that (and also respecting that some people simply choose ignorance, to preserve themselves.)

How do you cope, ATS?

It's kind of like that old adage of never discussing politics, religion, or money in polite company.

You just don't do it. If you do, probably all you will end up accomplishing is raising your blood pressure and giving yourself a nasty headache.

Here, talking about these things is easy; most of the people here are open-minded and relatively of the same sort of mindset. Plus, this is the internet. You are typing, not speaking. You are relatively anonymous and you don't have to worry about a "sheep" here shadowing you in your everyday life. You can always turn the computer off.

Unless you can see that the people you are talking to about these things have open minds, it is going to be rather fruitless to try to convert them.

If you insist on trying, you might want invest in a bottle of Advil and a big bottle of tequila (or your choice of alcoholic beverage). Your abused mind and spirit will thank you.....

reply to post by skeptic1


Oh, I should have clairified:

I am not always the one who brings the topic up. Usually it isn't me.

When I do bring it up it's usually something like... "The markets look bad now, are you protected?"

And I want to tell those close to me about my worries that it is going to be much worse than everyone things, and the historical parallels, but am met with somthing like "It'll correct itself next quarter."

Or worse, "The stimules/bailout.whatever" will take care of it!"

reply to post by asmeone2


I think the thing you have to ask yourself first is, "Are these people even close to my mindset?"; if they are, then you can tentatively proceed. If you go with baby-steps in the conversation, then you will be able to tell just how far their open-mindedness and understanding goes......and not bang your head against a brick wall by going to far past their "limits".

If they aren't, then why bother? You are only going to get frustrated and they aren't going to either understand what you are talking about or even care about it.

Some people are open to just about anything and can follow a line of thought to its end. Those are the people who will provide you with some of the best, most intelligent, most interesting conversations of your life.

I know what you are talking about. My mother....one of the smartest people I know, but she has no desire to talk about "real" things and it frustrates me to no end. My co-workers....I can talk to them to a point, then they get this glazed over look on their faces and I know it is time to stop.

I guess it just boils down to being able to quasi-read people before you start on a substantive line of conversation and being able to read them during the conversation. That way, you know who you can talk to and how far you can take the "real" stuff before you lose them and, in the process, drive yourself a little crazy.

reply to post by asmeone2


My father fits into this boat. He is the wealthiest person I know and have repeatedly asked him to move his money over several different places out of the country. He actually believes the fat cats orchestrated the event but only to line their pockets and nothing more. He thinks everything will correct itself.

I've also tried explaining the big picture to him. I can't even get past 9/11 being an inside job. I understand people like believing what's comfortable so I don't push much on any of the subjects. I've come to the conclusion that I'm sure you are already aware of:

You can't help people unless they want it.

We as those who understand what is going to happen, must let them get smacked in the face with whats coming. It's the only way for it to sink in to the point where a paradigm shift can occur. At that point, we must be ready to be there as their support, not say "I told you so", and then educate them when they're ready to listen.

It's not the greatest scenario by any means but it's the only one that has any effectiveness to it.

reply to post by asmeone2

I'm writing this after someone very close to me said she would have no problem with Boy George essentially becoming a dictator, so long as it was best for the people.

I just threw up in my mouth...


You know...I'm sure there is a gray area somewhere, but tough love comes in two shades - tell them how ignorant they are and be willing to give examples and cite sources, or tell them how ignorant they are and RUN like hell...!

I have found that when I cite life experiences along with evidence, in combination with quantitative data people listen...they might not agree, but the two are a noticable combination, as you personalize the moment by opening yourself up to criticism...

Don't give up man! Tell it like it is..!

Originally posted by Universal Light
reply to post by asmeone2

 

My father fits into this boat. He is the wealthiest person I know and have repeatedly asked him to move his money over several different places out of the country. He actually believes the fat cats orchestrated the event but only to line their pockets and nothing more. He thinks everything will correct itself.

I've also tried explaining the big picture to him. I can't even get past 9/11 being an inside job. I understand people like believing what's comfortable so I don't push much on any of the subjects. I've come to the conclusion that I'm sure you are already aware of:

You can't help people unless they want it.

We as those who understand what is going to happen, must let them get smacked in the face with whats coming. It's the only way for it to sink in to the point where a paradigm shift can occur. At that point, we must be ready to be there as their support, not say "I told you so", and then educate them when they're ready to listen.

It's not the greatest scenario by any means but it's the only one that has any effectiveness to it.

This reminds me almost exactly of my uncle. A wealthy man who could entirely shift his wealth so that our entire extended family could survive even the most worst of predicted events. But just like you, I can't even begin to get past 911. It's hilarious because his mentality totally illustrates the point im about to make. He watched the hour-long propaganda filled show about 911 likely on either the history or discovery channel. This is what he bases his entire belief system of the events on. I then step into the picture and have spent literally hundreds of hours investigating and researching all the different events of 911 and its ripple effect through time. Even the most well founded of my arguements were completely irrelevant to him. I couldn't even get him to agree on the facts about WTC7 (Which conveniently, wasn't even mentioned in the program he watched... in fact he did not even know about it when we had the discussion). And as far as watching a film like zeitgeist, Loose change or esoteric agenda with him, forget about it.

So after the conversation I felt so hopeless in convincing someone who I feel clearly needs to understand the true nature of the world at this moment not only for his own survival but possibly the effect he could have on the survival of our family. So I thought about the aspects of the discussion and why I had failed so miserably at convincing him while I had convinced and educated countless peers on the perils we face.

The difference is very simple. What we forget most commonly when dealing with people such as my uncle (your father) is that they are the generation that grew up believing exactly what the media portrayed. This whole idea of media persuasion of the masses is nothing new, it only appears new as its only now coming to light. So these people who grew up their entire lives believing what was fed to them strongly believe in that system and when a contrary belief is presented (NO MATTER HOW WELL FOUNDED) an immediate defense mechanism kicks in. First off, they don't want to believe its so bad, they feel they would know by now, because they trust the media and that the media and powers that be are looking out for their best interests. The second is their sub-conscious fear that they are wrong, and that if these facts people like you and I present are correct, then it puts their whole belief system built on an entire life of experience, on trial.

One thing that has helped me recently sway a good majority of my older relatives is that when 3 years ago I was tooting my horn about impending problems and everyone simply closed their ears, events are now starting to take place (financial melt down) that is opening their eyes to the crumbling foundation they're standing on.

reply to post by Universal Light


I can kindofsortof still understand denying 9/11 was at least fishy. I DO NOT understand, without delving into florite or EMF conspiracies, soemthing like that, how people can stand by and watch our freedoms eroding.

It doesn't matter if they're red or blue, they should be offended by that.

reply to post by king9072


It's tough. I come across the opposite side of the spectrum a lot. The "sheeple" who say "don't trust the media!" but have no idea what that actually means... it's a trendy type of thing to say for them. The ones who see a vast left/right or athiest/christian conspiracy to subvert the truth. It frustrates me that they are willing to see a conspiracy, but only when it involved a certain political opponant, and can't consider that both sides are just as guilty.

I am also in the same boat with my mom...she is such a believer in the system it makes me so sad. From religion to politics, its either republican or bust. Nothing I can say or do can change her mind.

I feel so sad for her. I dont pity her what so ever. I guess I just grew up in a day and age where you are taught that things are not always what they seem.

I dont believe that people are sheeple as you put it. I always thought that to be such an insulting term. I believe people of this country want to believe so much what their parents taught them. To believe in the system.

I do believe that conspiracy theories do sometimes give the government too much credit for being way to smart, and I think that is where most people lie between the two worlds.

You must always remember that being a "non conformist" is conforming to non conformity.

I would like to see my mom open her mind up and form true un biased opinions about her government as I would most people.

People are afraid, they are afraid of change...its in their nature, but as long as they can still pay for their house, car, kids college, have cable, have internet, etc...nothing is gunna change.

Most people would rather be on the edge of disaster while still living the way they have for years than to drop everything to try and make a long term change.

Nothing is ever gunna change until something major happens.



Not to be rude...but a lot of you complain about government on a day to day basis...what have you done to change it? Sitting on forums all day debating 9/11 and big foot will not solve anything...

I am not calling anyone on here lazy or anything...but it seems as tho a lot of people who complain about such things are really not doing anything about it on a real world scale.

Am i saying revolt? No. Am I saying take a dramatic action? No.

I wish more people would be involved in society. Be a teacher, be a coach, a banker who tells the truth, a lawyer who helps people that really needs to be helped, be something that reaches people directly and teach them to think for themselves.

Work with the system to make it work for the people.

People need to work for the benefit of other people, not for themselves.

PS...I just want to say I wasnt attacking anyone and I am not claiming that anyone who posts on ATS is not doing anything about situations that makes them angry. I am making a general observation about people who complain and blame government, corporations, or other people for the crap and mess we are in.

Remember...it all started with "We the people"

King-

I think you struck the the biggest point in all this that the majority of the public, young or old suffer from:

If they are wrong about how thye've perceived everything in existence, then the foundation of their being is a complete sham.

People would rather be shrouded in their own lies then discover the truth as it is "their" comfortability.

I also have been telling people for years that this is coming. Those that have begun awakening have turned to me to understand the events that are happening. When everything goes down, everyone who is lost and wanting answers will turn to you.

[edit on 1-10-2008 by Universal Light]

I think we could be siblings...

Anyways. I'm not calling anyone to revolution at all. I would never ask someone to potentially put their life and livelyhood on the line for something they don't beleive in!

I just get frustrated that people can ignore facts. I don't try to push them to take the same view as me, just to break out of the mould of living off of whatever is handed to them.

I get frustrated with the whole "It's only communism/fascism/dictatorship/police state when it happens over THERE" mentality.

reply to post by asmeone2


At least with my dad, there's no way I can talk to him about the many other conspiracies going on. 9/11 was soft of the benchmark. I've tried opening his eyes to other things but it just doesn't seem to resonate. It won't until the SHTF. I've made peace with that.

I sent him all the links and info regarding Reinhardt that has surfaced on the net and I haven't been able to generate any kind of response from him. I'm done probing him but not others.

I heard a joke and thought I would repeat it at my workplace went like
this ...

"Hear about the Large Hadron Collector ,I undrstand the atom particle collision bit and the 10,000 ton magnetic continiuem,the $99 quintillion dollar physics engineering experiment and accept the necessary risc of causeing a black hole and slight chance of destroying the Earth (hey it's worth the risc ) but hey ...[punch line] HOW the heck did they get council approval !!!!!!!

their response ... whats a LHC ?

some will never wake up.

Originally posted by Universal Light
reply to post by asmeone2

 

At least with my dad, there's no way I can talk to him about the many other conspiracies going on. 9/11 was soft of the benchmark. I've tried opening his eyes to other things but it just doesn't seem to resonate. It won't until the SHTF. I've made peace with that.

It's difficult because I suppose it requires such a level of faith, on most conspiracies... 9/11 of course is very "provable," but look how much discussion there still is there! I suppose it's on par with asking someone to convert to another religion.

Originally posted by ROO-meh
I heard a joke and thought I would repeat it at my workplace went like
this ...

"Hear about the Large Hadron Collector ,I undrstand the atom particle collision bit and the 10,000 ton magnetic continiuem,the $99 quintillion dollar physics engineering experiment and accept the necessary risc of causeing a black hole and slight chance of destroying the Earth (hey it's worth the risc ) but hey ...[punch line] HOW the heck did they get council approval !!!!!!!

their response ... whats a LHC ?

some will never wake up.

Hehe.

Repeated in my real life.

My mom drives a Ford Fusion... I told her I was going to name it "Hadron..." then had to explain what LHC is.

Hi asmeone2

No one will talk about 911 with me ..no one will talk about Fox News being a biased extreme right station who isnt telling them anything newsworthy ..
No one will listen to anything I have to say about those in charge of our country and banking systems etc etc etc ...no one will talk to me about God ...and the comeing end times (Not even the church going Christians want to hear about it)
Everyone thinks I am a lunatic fringe internet junky who believes everything she reads (Yet they tell me if it is not on Fox news then it isnt the truth) ...

So yeah Im kinda all alone too in my neck of the woods with my "Delusions" as they say lol .....

I tell them anyway ....then I show them my links *most of them straight from the horses mouth (yes from the internet ) but mostly from speeches ...etc ...news items ...(they would really lock me up if I showed them I come to this place LOL so I dont ) ..............

They get all mad ..storm out ..then call me later ..and say I LOVE YOU ..See ya later ..

They can take it or leave it ..I still tell them ...it will settle in their minds and when they see it they will remember >.Hey she told me about that ..so it is true eh ..And they will at least see it for what it is hopefully before its too late ...
I love them all enough to just keep on telling them ....
The way I deal with it is ...I see that their reactions just shows me that they are afraid to believe it .........then I just laugh with them when they call me a conspiricy nut ..(this lets them know its ok I can take it lol) ...then we change the subject and move on .
At least though I planted even a small tidbit of info ..and caused them to at least think on it later (which they do ..they come back a few weeks later and want to talk about it again ..then they get mad again lol ...and this happens for a while ...then I tell them more and more eachtime we talk ..and by the months end ...hey I got to tell it all ..and they didnt even realize that they set me up (by bringing up the subjects again and again)and they had to hear it all then anyway LOL >..
Sometimes they go digging to prove me wrong and they learn even more than I what I told them lol .....
This happens to me with about 6 people right now in my everyday life ..



[edit on 1-10-2008 by Simplynoone]

Oh man I deal with this with my family who SWEAR by George Bush. GEORGE BUSH CAN DO NO WRONG WITH THESE GUYS!!!! No matter how much evidence I present or even point out hey even the Republican Party knows this guy is going to go down in flames they still ignore it. The bailout is a GREAT idea because George says so. Oh man it is frustrating to the max. How do I deal with it? I speak slowly

reply to post by Simplynoone

no one will talk to me about God ...and the comeing end times (Not even the church going Christians want to hear about it)

I think this is where you lost folks...but hey - you'll always have your own opinion to fall back on.

I love them all enough to just keep on telling them ....

What lucky people...

Originally posted by Simplynoone
...no one will talk to me about God ...and the comeing end times (Not even the church going Christians want to hear about it)
Everyone thinks I am a lunatic fringe internet junky who believes everything she reads.

You bring up a very good point there.

I know so many people of the religious bent who sit around waiting for the LaHay version of the Rapture to take place.

They beleive that they are in the end times, but are so fervant in the beleif that it is going to play out their way that they can't see what's going on.

Talk to them about cell phones, RFID, SSN, as the mark of the beast? Nah. I'm paranoid.

Try to tie in alien abductions to the Rapture? I've been watching too much Xfiles.

Talk to them about EU/NAU/Ameros as they relate to this current crisis? I've been listening to the sensationalist left-wing media, and all this crisis is is Bill Clinton's policies coming home to roost.

Hehe, I understand completely, Simply.