How would I know a "disinfo" agent from Adam?

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by Harassment101

 

Its true that someone who keeps posting the same stuff with the same mindset and the same intent day by day by day by day...is suspicious. There are some people here like that.

How can that be suspicious?

Are we not all here to promote truth and deny ignorance?

Is there really a genuine feeling among ATS that there are really disinfo agents here, that are here perposley to discerdit infomation?

Like as in, it's there job to?

Can we see some stats of where these posts are comeing from?





[edit on 1-10-2008 by N.B.A.Y.S.O.H]

reply to post by PuRe EnErGy


More good advice. Thank you for taking the time. I'm starting to think that we/I must rely on the gut instinct. Good to know I was on the right track. Skeptical but curious......................

I'd suggest that you just came out and asked them, but i get the feeling that you would get the same answers either way- if they were agents they would say no, and of course if they weren't agents they would also so no.

So i guess a gut instinct is the best way to go.

I'm not an agent....or am i?
No, no I'm not.

~Star

reply to post by ThatDGgirl


I believe the difference between a disinfo agent, and someone who just likes to argue...is intent. The disinfo agent only exists to, intentionally, mislead people, to distract them from something more important.

Here's a hypothetical: Say ETs planned on revealling themselves on a particular day at a particular time, and the government didn't want you to know about it. This particular day and time rolls around, but the world doesn't witness it because the government has distracted it with a market crash...or a war. The government would be the disinfo agent by spreading dis-information to cause distraction.

In these forums however, it is genuinely difficult to weed out the D.A.s from regular individuals who are either asking honest questions or cramming their own opinions down your throat.

Disinfo-Agent is a derogatory used by people who have run out of arguments to support their theory for the most part. Its like the term Sheeple. People get so emotionally wrapped up in their beliefs and they get angry when others don't see things their way. When they don't have enough facts or run out of arguments to prove their points they resort to bullying by name calling.

There are justified cases of using that accusation though. People who argue just to argue, are not actually Disinfo-Agents but they probably deserve the anger and the title.

There are clearly cases, quite rare I think, where the term Disinfo-Agent is true. I don't think it is often that they are paid however. I think often they are from other Boards that have an issue with ATS, but the worst and most common are probably to do with Political discussions. When people put their Partisan Blinders firmly in place, I think they could be correctly categorized as Disinfo-Agents. They rationalize that it is OK to lie, mislead or smear, because they beleive their candidate winning is so important that all rules of decent conduct can be suspended. If they have to make things up to win, they see that as justified. Even though no money passes hands, they are paid in an emotional sense.

[edit on 10/2/2008 by Blaine91555]

Originally posted by ThatDGgirl
...What ARE the hallmarks of a "disinfo" agent?

I've listed it elsewhere, but I will list it here also.

Listed below are the signs that you are dealing with a disinfo agent or a paid shill. The difference between the two, roughly, is that a "disinfo agent" is generally seen as being with some governmental agency, or subcontracted by a governmental agency. A "paid shill" is someone who works for a public or private company that has no real connection to the government.

You will find "disinfo agents" mostly on threads that deal with government conspiracies, UFOs, false flags, "protest" threads, anti-government threads, etc. You will find a "paid shill" mostly on threads dealing with corporate conspiracies (oil price fixing, for example), mainstream media threads, threads about the economy (shills from banks, finance firms mostly), and various other threads like that. Paid shills are most common in any thread that is critical of those of jewish decent. Actually, I should say they are most common in the political threads having to do with the elections, but that is only at election time.

1) They will jump right in and immediately engage your emotions. They will turn the conversation from a logical discussion to one that hinges on emotions. If someone ("pro conspiracy") brings up a point for which there is no logical answer, they will often immediately attack or ridicule that poster, so as to detract your attention from that post.

2) They will often "refute" an argument with either a "straw-man" argument, or an "argument ad absurdo" (taking an argument to absurd extremes). This by itself is not necessarily an indication of a disinfo agent/paid shill, because people do this also. However, when combined with the other listings here, it adds evidence that you are, in fact, dealing with one.

3) You will see lots and lots of #1, and #2, then, if someone brings out something that is almost irrefutable, they will suddenly disappear, without the usual "Ok, your mind will not change"/"It's obvious we aren't going to agree here", etc. They do this in hopes that the thread will die down, and no one will read it.

4) They will argue over and over and over on things like governmental conspiracy, 9/11 ESPECIALLY, and state how you are absurd for believing such things, how no one who isn't crazy believes such things, etc., but will not bother to step foot into such things as the "holes in the poles to the center of the earth" threads, nor in the "the earth if flat" type threads. In other words, they will NOT be seen "debunking" stuff that even us "kooks" look at and go "WTF?!". This is a great indicator, because the type of personality that has a strong desire to correct what they view as "misinformation" will not hesitate to venture into those threads. There is a good possibility that if you see them posting a lot in those type of threads, that they are NOT a disinfo agent.

5) This one I have only seen in the last couple of weeks. I'm not sure if this is a definite sign of a disinfo agent yet, as I do not have enough examples to come to a conclusion; however, I notice it cropping up more and more, and WHERE it is cropping up is suspicious (see #4). They will say "Oh, you are wrong, here is the link" and the link will have either have NOTHING to do with the subject matter, or will say the exact OPPOSITE of what they claim it says. If it happens once, it can be just a mistake. When it happens several times, it is on purpose, and you have to ask yourself what purpose it is attempting to serve. (Here's a hint... it is my guess that they believe most people do not follow links within a thread.)

6) When a legitimate question or point is posted, they will not address it. They will attempt to explain away EVERYTHING. Very seldom will you see "Good point", or "I don't know", or "It does seem that way, doesn't it?" from them on a thread. When that question/point is brought up, they will attempt to use tactics #1 or #2 above, and if that doesn't work, they will try and get the thread locked. If all else fails, they will abandon it.

A great strategy to find out if #6 is applicable (ESPECIALLY if you have very strong evidence, or an exceptionally accurate point) is to repeat your question/point again. They will try and work around it. If you repeat it a third time, and they still aren't addressing it, it is almost conclusive you are dealing with a disinfo agent/paid shill. The key, though, is to be able to discern someone who legitimately has a difference of opinion, and thinks that they HAVE addressed your question/point, and one is avoiding addressing it. Sometimes this is difficult at first, but gets easier with practice.

That's why you will sometimes read a post, and someone immediately goes "You are a disinfo agent/paid shill", and you are going "WTF?!". They have become very good at spotting them. And sometimes the accusing person is just too paranoid.

7) They overload the thread with tons of statistics and links, but with evidence that is only tangentially related to the topic at hand. Attorneys have a name for this, though this escapes me at the moment. They overwhelm you with tons of links so that you do not have time to respond. This results in it looking like you have no direct answer for them, or that you are afraid to answer their questions. They will also often say things like "Why didn't you answer? It must be because you know my proof is correct", yet when you check the timestamps, the time between the two will be several minutes.

8) A paid shill/disinfo agent will post at certain times of the day/night. Very rarely will they post at other times. In other words, they are all hot to trot and engage you from 8 to 5, 3 to 11, or some other range (those are just examples, seldom will you see it as clear as those hours), but then all of the sudden, when they were posting within minutes of your posts, they will quit posting until the next day.

9) They overwhelm the thread with postings that are ALMOST outside of the topic range, or with postings that attempt to change the topic. They will often tag-team with someone else, so that it looks like there are 2 or 3 people, so that it seems as if other (other than disinfo agents/paid shills) people are voicing their opinions/facts. Almost always will they agree with each other. Or, they will agree, then go on to state more "evidence".

In #9 above, you could have several people that actually like the debate, or are defending a certain point. How do you tell the two apart? The disinfo agents/shills will lead you off topic, or post replies that are ALMOST off topic. People that are passionate about a point will usually stick with it.

10) You very rarely see them agree with someone who is "pro kooky theory". Even if you absolutely irrefutable proof, they will ignore that post, and act as if it was never brought up. When pointed to it, they will either ignore that post too, or say they "missed it, and will get back with you on it", but they never do.

11) (Rarely tried, but sometimes these crop up). They will post things that are blatantly illegal/immoral, and say the equivalent of "Who's with me?". Sometimes, even if they do not come right out and say it, they will allude to doing something highly illegal. You will see this most often in assassination threads, revolution threads, and sometimes they crop up in threads having to do with owning/carrying guns. When you read something that makes you go (or someone else responds with) "Wow. I bet the secret service would be interested in THAT post.", there is about a 99% certainty is was posted by a paid disinfo agent. What they are doing is seeing if they can entrap (not in the legal definition, but the average sense) someone into "conspiring" with them. Most often, they will see who agrees with them (maybe not directly, but alludes to agreeing with them) and will follow it up with U2Us or e-mails.

12) They will claim you are anti-"something" (anti-semetic, racist, liberal, conservative, etc.) when you make a point or state a fact that is uncomfortable or which they cannot directly refute. You will see this alot when you keep posting the point, and ask for an answer/refutation of your main point/question. When you point out how it is logically impossible for you to be whatever it is they claim, they will continue on in this vein, and call you a liar, etc. (Remember? ANYTHING to get you off topic!).

As an example, I have been called "racist" in quit a few threads on another forum. When I point out that I was in a mixed-race marriage, and that my son is of mixed heritage, that fact was outright denied, was glossed over with "but....", or conveniently ignored, while the "racist" labeling continued. This is mostly paid shills. Disinfo agents hardly use this tactic.

13) They will have the "yes, but..." syndrome. You make a good and valid point, and they will go "yes, but..." and their refutation will have absolutely nothing to do with your argument or point. Sometimes, this is done by people who merely are bad at debates, and sometimes it is done by people who put information together differently than you. People who have long been into conspiracy theories can often put together two things that someone who hasn't been into it as long, or as deep, cannot. They will say "Well, obviously X and Y are related, as Z shows", but they leave out parts A,B, and C which show how X,Y, and Z fit together. You see this in real life too, when you deal with experts in their field. They will say "Oh, I forgot to tell you X? I forgot, I just do it automatically". We've all had this experience.

14) Will jump right in on very controversial topics, while avoiding the more mundane ones. I don't mean seldom post in them, I mean almost NEVER post in them.

(continued)

(continued)

15) Will almost never make a humorous comment, either by itself, or within their posts. Shows very little sense of humor. This is most common on paid shills. Disinfo agents do seem to show a little sense of humor sometimes.

16) They are ALWAYS against ANY conspiracy theory, or against ANY UFO evidence, or against ANY claims of foreign influence in our Government. (If they are THAT against them, you have to ask yourself why they are on a board such as this!) Edit to add: one other thing they are always against is Chemtrails.

17) Paid disinfo agents/shills will register, post, then a couple of months later (or longer), they disappear, but someone "else" registers who has the same writing style as them.

18) Disinfo agents/paid shills will attempt to connect your theory, idea, proof, or opinion with "wacky" other theories, opinions, or ideas.

I hope this list will help you spot disinfo agents, paid shills, and the like on this board, and on other forums as well. Every one of us will fit in one of the categories at some time or other, but what you are looking for is a REPEATING PATTERN. When they do one or more of the things listed above over and over and over. It is a very telling clue that they show the same set of patterns across multiple topics, subjects, and boards.

They really are very easy to see when you have had some dealings with them. It becomes REALLY, REALLY easy to spot when you see the same patterns cropping up (sometimes even the exact same wording) on totally separate boards. It is like a glaring spotlight when they post on a board that doesn't normally have "kooky" topics on it.

If anyone has any questions, let me know, or you can U2U me.

Edit to add: If you really examine ANY 9/11 thread, or Chemtrail thread, you will MOST CERTAINLY find at least one (and probably several) disinfo agents.

[edit on 2-10-2008 by sir_chancealot]

[edit on 2-10-2008 by sir_chancealot]

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Disinfo-Agent is a derogatory used by people who have run out of arguments to support their theory for the most part. ...When they don't have enough facts or run out of arguments to prove their points they resort to bullying by name calling. ...

Actually, this is more common among disinfo agents and paid shills than it is among us "regular users".

Also, if someone believe that someone is truly a disinformation agent, they will almost always use that term when referring to them. (Granted, sometimes they get a little creative with adjectives used along with that term, but still.. )

I can't imagine what could be a more boring job than an internet disinfo agent. The dream of being James Bond shattered. I can see the homeland security dept. wasting money on this though.

I might be one... Or I might just be lying... I mite be a lying disinformation agent. Would that make me a truth agent???

A PROFESSIONAL disinfo "agent" generally will take a topic / conversation / idea to the outer limits and with the last, most important/vital argument / exhibit they crush the story with a plausible flaw. Either pointing it out or slipping it in.

They will ride the story to the end or even 'seed' it to begin with if it rivals another parallel presentation.

Like a hungry used car salesman, they direct you to what you want (to find) and, let's face it, truth seekers are the most gullible of all in a peer researched field/topic/board/site like those we frequent. No doubt their trade is much harder these days and that's why there is more seeding going on than ever.

[edit on 2-10-2008 by Atlantican]

Hi ThatDGgirl,

See from one thread, I would not just judge from there, I usually monitor people over time, and take it from there. There is no exact science, but I trust my instincts.


Hi hotbakedtater,

If someone were really a paid agent to post here, how does that differ from someone who reads one book, or has a friend who told him about something or another, then comes in and posts 'facts' he really does not know at all? It is in the end up to the poster to decide what 'info' to keep and what 'disinfo' to toss.

The difference is intent. One might be spreading the wrong information with conviction out of innocence or ignorance, but a disinformation agent has a set and prescribed goal.


Skyfloating,

Its true that someone who keeps posting the same stuff with the same mindset and the same intent day by day by day by day...is suspicious. There are some people here like that.

Yeah I am like that when it comes to the subject of Gang Stalking, but I usually supply valid arguments.

I find that others do not supply valid arguments, but still manage to hijack and derail threads, none the less. Does that make them disinfo? NO it might make them just annoying, but if you pull up the persons name and go over their history, you can at times start to see a pattern, and know what to expect.

Eg. I just saw a post that someone wrote an article saying that he U.S. was going to provide $800 billion to China in the Americo currency. Many in that thread can and immediately asked who the author was, or replied, oh after seeing the title I suspected the article was by such and such. After time, you begin to know a specific style and know what to expect from specific people. If I consistently see someone trying to derail threads, or consistently steering someone away from the truth time and again, I monitor them and get a better picture of who they are, and what they seem to be about.


Hi OzWeatherman,

What about people that keep posting disinfo allegations day by day by day by day....that in my opinion is also suspicious

Is that the only thing that you go by? I would go by other observations to try to determine if someone was a disinfo agent, I would not just stop there.

They could be employed to shout disinfo every day, but on the other hand, they could just really feel that someone is a disinformation agent.

Like I said, I do my own observation, and over time, I feel comfortable with limiting my association with specific people, because I see what they are about.



Hi N.B.A.Y.S.O.H,

How can that be suspicious?

Are we not all here to promote truth and deny ignorance?

Is there really a genuine feeling among ATS that there are really disinfo agents here, that are here purposley to discredit information?

Like as in, it's there job to?

It can be suspicious if over time you see a reoccurring pattern. It's also a matter of credibility. You learn who the thread disruptor's are, who causes trouble all the time and what to expect.

No we are not all here to deny ignorance and promote the truth? Are you kidding? It's the job of specific people to make sure some stay very ignorant and that the truth never get's out.

If you still think we all have the same objectives and motives, I am very happy that you still have this frame of mind, but then I would just say be cautious.

Clearly you don't feel that way. I have been here for a couple of years and I do feel that way, strongly so. I am sure there are people that have been here five years who will tell you the world is a sunny happy place to be, and disinfo agents don't exist, and from there perception depending on what they have encountered it could be the truth. I cam base my feedback only on what I have encountered and experienced.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by Harassment101]

dis info agent , how can u tell when they mixes lies and trulls. i wonder if they hear with ats. now and are that useing words for mind contro. 1 2 3 4 u to be a sleep contro mind, 4 me to make you do thing for us.
who knows who, how can you tell, you must be the better man than i,
livin on the edge.
do you catch a disinfo agent by a slanted point of view in their own minds eye point of view, slated only for intensions of nothing but thier own bennefit. good or bad. ill listen to the man who do nothing but good for all.

reply to post by sir_chancealot


WOW! Thank you for taking the time to go into such detail! I think you covered it all pretty well. As you can see, I'm new here and I'm just trying to get a heads up.

I DO wonder why some of these folks are here at all, when they seem to want an absolutely logical answer and gobs of proof...It appears that this whole site is pretty much about speculation on particular facts. And then I think that maybe they're just the sort of folks who can't feel good about themselves unless they're running someone else into the ground. God knows I've met a few of those "in the flesh" and that type of behavior is far more easily done here.

I imagine them using that same line of debate in real time, with real people and they would shortly be alone. So maybe this is their way of getting their "fix" of being "right" and feeling good about themselves.

A BIG thank you to all the brilliant thoughts and hints I've seen here. I think I'll be enjoying my time spent at ATS!

X DG

reply to post by sir_chancealot


Buddy, you wrote an awesome post. I actually spent a few extra minutes reading it back again. I do recognize a lot of the "tells" that you speak of, but, point 13 got my attention.

13) They will have the "yes, but..." syndrome. You make a good and valid point, and they will go "yes, but..." and their refutation will have absolutely nothing to do with your argument or point. Sometimes, this is done by people who merely are bad at debates, and sometimes it is done by people who put information together differently than you. People who have long been into conspiracy theories can often put together two things that someone who hasn't been into it as long, or as deep, cannot. They will say "Well, obviously X and Y are related, as Z shows", but they leave out parts A,B, and C which show how X,Y, and Z fit together. You see this in real life too, when you deal with experts in their field. They will say "Oh, I forgot to tell you X? I forgot, I just do it automatically". We've all had this experience.

Outside of ATS, during the summer, I work in costume at Renaissance Faire. I am a typical shopworker and generally stick to selling our wares. At many times throughout the day, though, I will go outside and "hawk".
"Hawking" is engaging the public to bring attention to your shop. It takes a confident and and extroverted personality to really be good at it. One of my friends at Faire is Carol, who plays the extremely visual charachter of the Queens "nutty" cousin, Ladye Ettie. This woman is dressed very eccentrically and always has to interact with both Patrons and Participants alike. She taught me the "Yes, but...." technique to keep a conversation alive between Participant charachters at Faire. When "In Charachter" at Faire (in my case), I am an Irish, upper-low class shopkeep and spending all day speaking in an accent is, sometimes, challenging. It's not the accent that's hard, it's the context and ability to keep an in-charachter conversation going and not just dying off. Carol told me to NEVER just agree or disagree. You acknowledge their statement with a "Yes, but....". "Yes, but..." allows the other person to carry on the conversation more, and in turn, keep the entertainment fluid and improvisational.

To attach that to this subject and topic, the technique of "Yes, but..." is strictly improvisational. It's a skill. And you are right in saying it's a skill used here at ATS by anti-posters. It works too. "Yes, but..." carries on the conversation and if used by the DI/PS (Dis-info/Paid shill), this can allow YOU to give them the next "point of contention" to focus on. The "Yes, but..." technique can pull a topic right out of focus and move it to a stronger point the DI/PS can work with.

Awesome posts again, sir_chancealot. Well spoken.
Cuhail

reply to post by sir_chancealot


I think you know this is being exagerated. If there is one genuine paid person on ATS in a month, I'd be surprised. Of course that is what makes ATS, ATS. We are all a bit paranoid.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by sir_chancealot

 

I think you know this is being exagerated. If there is one genuine paid person on ATS in a month, I'd be surprised. Of course that is what makes ATS, ATS. We are all a bit paranoid.

I know no such thing, and I would question how you "know I know"? A regular person would find the fact that I took so much time to put that post there as evidence that I most certainly DO believe there are paid disinfo agents AND paid shills on here. I know two that I would be willing to bet my life on. Does that sound like I am "exaggerating"?

Well then, please explain it to me. Show me the points in my two posts that you believe to be in error. Show me how "normal" people engage in that type of behavior. Now, not just once or twice, but repeating patterns over and over.

To all the lurkers, did you notice the linking (sometimes called "anchoring") as the NLP (neuro linguistic programming) people would say?

Do you see how he links the idea of there being disinfo agents/paid shills on here with "exaggerating" and with PARANOIA? This is another prime example of something a disinfo agent/paid shill would do.

From this, can we conclude he is one? NO! Why? Because I have not noticed a repeating pattern from this person (or multiple uses of items on my list above). Perhaps you have noticed something different.

This example is an excellent way to show the difference. Now, keep an eye on this poster. If Blaine91555 starts using differing points from my list above, in a great number of threads, then you can come to a different conclusion.

Originally posted by sir_chancealot

Do you see how he links the idea of there being dis-info agents/paid shills on here with "exaggerating" and with PARANOIA? This is another prime example of something a dis-info agent/paid shill would do.

From this, can we conclude he is one? NO! Why? Because I have not noticed a repeating pattern from this person (or multiple uses of items on my list above). Perhaps you have noticed something different.

This example is an excellent way to show the difference. Now, keep an eye on this poster. If Blaine91555 starts using differing points from my list above, in a great number of threads, then you can come to a different conclusion.

I'd forgotten about this thread.

I was being a little light hearted because even if their are real dis-info-agents, their motives are not particularly sensible in the first place. I can see some coming on here looking for dangerous angry people, but the average ATS user is here for entertainment and to participate in something out of the ordinary they happen to believe in.

I think their are only two reasons a paid person would be here monitoring ATS. First, looking for potential dangers to the public like terrorists or mad bomber types. Second, people who are revealing National Security information. Beyond that, I can only see wanna be dis-info-agents from other Boards or people pissed off at ATS for some reason.

I think many who are accused are just people who get their rocks off angering people they see as a bit nuts. They are not paid dis-info-agents, but instead just plain old Trolls.

You go ahead and keep your eye on me though. In the end you will find I'm just a pragmatist, who prefers logic to emotion and happens to have an interest in UFO's and the world around me.

What is that old saying about the person who yells the loudest is the most guilty?

When I consider the entirety of your post, you are pretty much saying that anyone who does not agree with you is a "Paid Dis-info Agent". I on the other hand, believe they are just ordinary people who happen to not agree with you.

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
It would be my opinion that disinformation is not done in BULK, or very flashily.

...

Disinformation is all about timing, .. redirecting attention.

This is true; they are subterfuge agents. The disinformation agent is a close cousin of the agent provocateur. The difference is that the latter plays a more active role in identifying and rallying insurgents.

Disinfo agents are all about winning the hearts and minds and then taking the group to the wrong detour, nothing more. They are no more a threat than your local evangelist preacher, except for maybe the shotgun the preacher might be carrying in the trunk of his car.

I wouldn't worry too much about them disrupting focus on this site. Although, the one thing that concerns me is the degree to which they must be brainwashed by the NWO, where they are quite capable of researching material on their own and seeing the truth for themselves, yet still they ride their horse.