Deal reached on financial markets bailout

Don't believe it

They have done this over & over already with no difference

It's just like the bailouts themselves, over & over again with no difference

I reiterate yet again, what is the bill number? I have yet to find the bill anywhere. Until we get the actual bill, its all just speculation.

camain

Well IMHO the Forth Reich just Historically Started.

You now have, even with it seems some curtails, a total transfer of the Economic Influence, Power, Wealth, Hours Worked and Resources of the good American people, to a Private Bank Employee.

As was mentioned in the initial hearings by an elected US government member to Paulson "But he would then be the most powerful man in the world!" (fed sec/treas chairman)

In addition this Employee Bernanke instigated a Large part of the current financial Crisis, advocated and knew the starters of the "Hedge" "Default Swaps" (god I wish the public could trade THEIR OWN credit risks!) and made $750 million dollars or so, charging the American people to print their OWN worthless fiat money!

This is ridiculous, and it seems as if the UK is taking the example too.

They have not paid "their" debts, and are charging "you" to pay them off, whilst still getting the "goods/service" (payment-wages bonuses) without it being repposesed!

Try that as a citizen now, stay in your home but dont pay the mortgage see what happens?

WHY ARE THE BAILIFS BONDSMEN whatever not at the FED now and Goldman Sachs?

OMG how dumb have they made US?

Why are we JUST TYPING ABOUT THIS?

Elf

(elf-strokes his white cat, and looks at mini Elf at this realization, there is opportunity in this total "dumbed" "zombied" "disenfranchised" "powerless" culture, surveys his island starts looking for his Darren Brown collection)

I for one can not comprehend how this nonsense is getting any traction at all. Congress is steamrolling this farce based on the science fiction concept that banks will quit lending money if they don't get this bail out... Right, they are going to hold their breath, turn blue in the face, and cease conducting the business that they make money on... lending money to be paid back with interest.

Please, consider informing your representatives that this concept is within your comprehension, unless you really prefer to commit generations to come to a form of slavery.

reply to post by MischeviousElf

This is ridiculous, and it seems as if the UK is taking the example too.

They just announced on FoxNews that one of the largest British financial firms, Bradford and Bingley, has been nationalized.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by MischeviousElf

 

This is ridiculous, and it seems as if the UK is taking the example too.

They just announced on FoxNews that one of the largest British financial firms, Bradford and Bingley, has been nationalized.

I think its 8th or 9th, ProfEmeritus Thanks,

I used to work in Finance, things are probably a lot worse in the UK if the USA goes down, if our housing market "Crashes" Britain is F****D literally.

1/4 jobs/wealth in the UK are Financial services or support services of these, or the call centers.

Initial figures put the UK bailout at about 100-200 billion!

If they use the same example as the US though it looks like, me on back of ciggy pack, and word pad about 340-380 Billion (that's $ and USA Billions for ease of comparison) and there is like in comparison only 60 million population in the UK!

Compared to over 600 Million in the US, 10 times less of us, but we have to pay nearly half of what you will! if this happens!

The tax load , with current set up in the UK (free health service, state schools, etc etc) is untenable,

BRITAIN could not pay it back. The load on the current UK citizen of Value Added Tax, Income Tax, National insurance, Highest Fuel in Europe, Huge Amount of Hours worked.

UK has nothing more to give to the Taxman, Unless they really are building camps, unless they are the UK CANT go down the US path!

We have some very real and looming problems with the Brent Oil fields too, and the trading around them recently (3 yrs esp last 12 months and 3-4mnths) you will look at this in 1 month and think, are that's what he was on about!


Sell

Sell

Sell

is what I would be saying to my broker if I still partaked in such things,

Elf.
[elf/edit on 28-9-2008 by MischeviousElf for glass of nice Red and subsequent spelling mistakes!]

[edit on 28-9-2008 by MischeviousElf]

reply to post by MischeviousElf

The real crime is that 80-90% of the American public is AGAINST this bailout. Our Democracy has been hijacked. Even voting is meaningless here, with the rigged electronic voting machines that are now being used.

I hope people outside the US understand that the American people are being held hostage, and virtually helpless to do anything about it.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by MischeviousElf

 

The real crime is that 80-90% of the American public is AGAINST this bailout. Our Democracy has been hijacked. Even voting is meaningless here, with the rigged electronic voting machines that are now being used.

I hope people outside the US understand that the American people are being held hostage, and virtually helpless to do anything about it.

We're not helpless. it's just, the one thing we would have to do, is something the american people have lost the will to do.

The die is cast, set short sail. This is one storm that we can only weather if we help each other. Remember that, discourage preying on one another.

Actually, they have just sealed their doom. This isn't going to turn out well for those who are at the dangling end of the puppeteer's string. They mistakenly believe that the media will protect them from reality by convincing us of their 'take' on it.

All we have to do is remember - they have lied from the beginning, they have always lied, they are lying now, and their only escape is another lie.

Notice how no matter how valiantly the players played it, no matter the rhetoric, and all the posturing, in the end they did EXACTLY what they set out to do. They made their buddies hundreds of billions, out of our and our children's hide. Every tax-payer, is now accountable to prop them up..., so you and I can 'borrow' more. How does that work? The short answer is, it doesn't. Someone made of with the national wealth.... and is in the process of 'getting away with it' as you read this. There is no doubt, our representatives have utterly abandoned us; bought off for pork and circumstance.

There should be shame, instead we hear of 'reaching an agreement'. Does it include legal admission by the beneficiaries, of their conduct which led to this situation? Does the money they 'may' have to pay us back in 5 years get compounded with interest? What am I missing here? Where was the concession?

That Paulson doesn't get to be King? What the heck is that? That the CEO's don't get to rape the stock holders, gee thanks, I suppose that was their right that they relinquished as penance? Poor babies. This things a travesty of justice, and clearly exemplary of the current state of the nation under this generation's contributions to the body politic - lost.

All this, done on a spreadsheet, because remember, it's all conceptual, not real, an accountant's 'scheme'. A really nasty one.

[edit on 28-9-2008 by Maxmars]

reply to post by Maxmars

The die is cast, set short sail. This is one storm that we can only weather if we help each other. Remember that, discourage preying on one another.

Excellent point. I agree wholeheartedly. Now is not the time for partisanship. That is what these crooks want, to keep us distracted with the Obama Versus McCain, and liberal versus conservative, while they steal all the cookies from the cookie jar.
Let's stop the partisan bickering, and get together, and develop a plan to combat these thieves that have stolen our democracy.

Until I see the bill, I can not comment on anything, nor should anyone else. The only thing you are doing is spreading rumor and speculation. I want to see the bill, I want to see what was voted on. I want to see what was passed, UNTIL then, this is all just speculation.

Camain

I found the bill, its 106 pages. reading it now. Found it by doing a search of
"Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008" I suggest that everyone read prior to making assumptions.

Camain

reply to post by camain

I have read most of the bill, as it was posted. Much of it, is unchanged from the original. The main additions were weak stipulations, such as executive pay over $500,000 for the top 3 executives will not be a deductible expense by the corporation. Big deal, so they can still take $25,000,000 in pay, and the corporation they represent has to pay corporate taxes on $24,500,000. News FLASH- If the corporation LOSES money, as I expect they will, the Corp doesn't PAY ANY TAXES anyway. It's all a sham.

nowallstreetbailout.com...

sign it, then go here to call/email/fax your representatives to politely remind them that they work for US not for wall street:

www.visi.com...

reply to post by camain


From another thread

www.sendspace.com...

you can dl the entire 106 page doc there.

Here is what is NOT speculation:

Fact: The 700 billion dollar figure is totally random, based on nothing ( www.forbes.com... ):

In fact, some of the most basic details, including the $700 billion figure Treasury would use to buy up bad debt, are fuzzy. "It's not based on any particular data point," a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. "We just wanted to choose a really large number."

To clarify and as Chris Martenson ( www.chrismartenson.com... ) writes:


Sec. 6. Maximum Amount of Authorized Purchases. The Secretary's authority to purchase mortgage-related assets under this Act shall be limited to $700,000,000,000 outstanding at any one time.

Whoa! Stop! What is this "at any one time" language?? This means that $700 billion is NOT the cost of this dangerous legislation, it is only the amount that can be outstanding at any one time. After, say, $100 billion of bad mortgages are disposed of, another $100 billion can be bought. In short, these four little words assure that there is NO LIMIT to the potential size of this bailout. This means that $700 billion is a rolling amount, not a ceiling.

I'm reading the new doc now, but I bet this still stands...

reply to post by camain

As I said, I have read the bill. You might want to see my post here about the Oversight Board and how it will work:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I found this interesting!

"SEC. 112. COORDINATION WITH FOREIGN AUTHORITIES
8 AND CENTRAL BANKS.
9 The Secretary shall coordinate, as appropriate, with
10 foreign financial authorities and central banks to work to11
ward the establishment of similar programs by such au12
thorities and central banks. To the extent that such for13
eign financial authorities or banks hold troubled assets as
14 a result of extending financing to financial institutions
15 that have failed or defaulted on such financing, such trou16
bled assets qualify for purchase under section 101."

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Hoo! Thanks, Prof, that's some good info- back to the foxes and the henhouse, huh?

As I posted in another thread, I find it amazing that more people don't know about the Bush family's predilection for fascism. In fact, writer Larisa Alexandrovna of The Huffington Post ( www.huffingtonpost.com... ) has been friggin' CRUCIFIED lately, though, for even suggesting that the current "financial crisis" is not only intentional, but part of a coup to transfer unprecedented power to the Executive Branch and to put public funds in the hands of the global corporate elite.

That's exactly what's happening, though, man. At least that's what I think. Hers is a great article and well worth the five minute read.

She compares the current "crisis" to the little-known "Business Plot" of 1933 ( en.wikipedia.org... ), a previous attempt at a coup in order to install fascism in America. The coup attempt was revealed a year later when General Smedley Butler informed the Congress that a group of wealthy industrialists, including Prescott Bush, the current president's grandfather, had attempted to get on their side high ranking military figures in order to overthrow the government of President Franklin D. Roosevelt. The BBC did a great story on BBC Radio about this at www.bbc.co.uk...

Just carryin' on a family tradition!

reply to post by camain

Yes, and the nationalization of another bank in England is proof that this is being coordinated world-wide. This is a true coup, with the final goal of world control of the banking system by those in power. Once all banks are either driven to bankruptcy or taken over, there is NO need for armies, navies or weapons. Without money, everything stops.
You know, I am not a zealot that believed in wild speculation on Biblical prophecies, but this does make you wonder about this verse from Revelation:

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a MARK in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the MARK, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. Rev. 13:16-18

Will anyone be able to buy or sell without going through this world-wide controlled banking system?

Maybe it's time we start looking a little closer to verses such as these. As I said, I never took such verses at literal meaning, in fact, I sued to scoff when people brought this verse up, but this situtaion does make me wonder.........

reply to post by camain


Wow, just this morning, I posted the fact that finance ministers from the G7 countries applauded the bailout proposal as Henry Paulson, the US Treasury Secretary called for other countries to follow America's example. ( business.timesonline.co.uk... )

"I'm going to be pressing our colleagues around the world to design similar programmes for their banks and institutions. Our system is a global one." Paulson stated.

and voila, it has come to pass!

That's some fast work! Almost like it was planned that way...

Can anyone say, "Business Plot" of 1933?

I knew ya could.