only FEW Christians actually to go Heaven

please ignore the cheesy and corny aspect of the video

try to focus on what its saying and tell me what you think

the main idea is that christians are not saved at all. salvation is like a way (thats how Jesus put it) that has to be walked. At the end stands Jesus , life, salvation.

what most Christians do is get converted. thats only the FIRST STEP. To enter Heaven they need to be regenerated, not just converted.

there's a ton to talk about but 1-st i wanna see if anyone actually cares about this

www.youtube.com...






[edit on 27-9-2008 by DHammer]

Originally posted by DHammer
please ignore the cheesy and corny aspect of the video

try to focus on what its saying and tell me what you think

It seems the video is down...

Originally posted by DHammer
the main idea is that christians are not saved at all. salvation is like a way (thats how Jesus put it) that has to be walked. At the end stands Jesus , life, salvation.

He also likens himself to the door that one enters.

A sheep is not alone. If he is he's wandering all over the place. A sheep requires something to follow. They either follow the shepherd or follow goats, that are trained to lead them into the slaughterhouse, although the goats speak about the shepherd, they set themselves up as shepherds. They insist that a man follow them and use witchcraft to control their sheep.

There is an institution made with mens hands that they so foolishly call the church and then there is a temple build upon a rock and the gates of hell cannot prevail against it.

The kingdom of heaven is not a distant place to get to. It is within you.

this was supposed to be a topic for Christians, because they understand best what salvation is

as for the video it seems it was set to private so only i was able to watch it i fixed that

[edit on 27-9-2008 by DHammer]

Originally posted by DHammer
this was supposed to be a topic for Christians, because they understand best what salvation is

Yet if only few go, then only few understand what salvation is, correct?

Originally posted by DHammer
as for the video it seems it was set to private so only i was able to watch it

i fixed that

Nice, I agree concerning the narrow way.

To basically mirror what Paul told the Philippians. I consider all things crap that I may win Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own which is from the law but rather the righteousness that is by the faith of Jesus.

The way is so narrow that if a righteous man is told that he will live, and he trusts to his own righteousness and commits sin. He will die for the sin that he has committed.

reply to post by DHammer


For sake of an argument. What percent would you consider "few"?

10%?

5%?

1%?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by DHammer

 

For sake of an argument. What percent would you consider "few"?

10%?

5%?

1%?

the video was titled 1 out of 1000 so i'd say thats how many christians, but really ,i ve barely seen any that even know what regeneration is, so i'd say 1 out of 1 10.000 or even more ... !

here is the (imo) most important verse in the whole Bible

Matthew 7:14

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Jesus was talking to His disciples here, not the crowd, the uninformed masses. The disciples already knew who Jesus was, they knew how to be converted, so there was no point for Jesus to say what He said to the masses again.

so He started telling them what to do next, how to be saved, and said there is a broad way that leads to destruction and a narrow way which leads to life

i think its pretty easy to point out what destruction means, and what life means.

remember Jesus said he is the way, the truth and life.

so if life is at the end of the way , that means Jesus is waiting there.

also notice the way is STRAIT , its not easy by any means, its hard to even enter in ! let alone walk this straight and narrow way, that eventually LEADS to life (tis a journey, it takes time, its not instant , thus not conversion, not repentance).

ill leave it at that for now

Originally posted by DHammer

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by DHammer

 

For sake of an argument. What percent would you consider "few"?

10%?

5%?

1%?

the video was titled 1 out of 1000 so i'd say thats how many christians, but really ,i ve barely seen any that even know what regeneration is, so i'd say 1 out of 1 10.000 or even more ... !

here is the (imo) most important verse in the whole Bible

Matthew 7:14

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Jesus was talking to His disciples here, not the crowd, the uninformed masses. The disciples already knew who Jesus was, they knew how to be converted, so there was no point for Jesus to say what He said to the masses again.

so He started telling them what to do next, how to be saved, and said there is a broad way that leads to destruction and a narrow way which leads to life

i think its pretty easy to point out what destruction means, and what life means.

remember Jesus said he is the way, the truth and life.

so if life is at the end of the way , that means Jesus is waiting there.

also notice the way is STRAIT , its not easy by any means, its hard to even enter in ! let alone walk this straight and narrow way, that eventually LEADS to life (tis a journey, it takes time, its not instant , thus not conversion, not repentance).

ill leave it at that for now

1 1/12th of 1% of the people on Earth is 5 million.

John saw a number of people in heaven the "no man could count". Now, I doubt there are a VERY small percentage of people on Earth who follow Jesus Christ. Notice, I didn't say who "claim" Jesus Christ, i said who FOLLOW Jesus Christ.

Jesus says all who the Father gives to Him, none will slip through His fingers.

Are you hereby stating Jesus was lying?

as weird as this may sound im not familiar with that verse youre talking about, please give it to me

John could have seen the people who were in Heaven BEFORE Jesus departed and went up to the Father.

what you need to understand is that before Jesus, people were not required to walk the narrow way that we have to now, they had a different way to be saved, sacrificing lambs etc. The "few" only applies to the ones living before Jesus departed obviously , since Theres no narrow way in the Old Testament.

now if John saw all the people that will be in Heaven when Jesus comes the 2-nd time than i think its fair to say there will be A LOT if we add the people who got saved during 6000 years.

so either way John was right

I honestly don't know where to begin with this sort of nonsense.

Look, for a start, the Bible was NOT written by God or Christ. I know people believe that was the case and they WANT to believe it, but the fact is, the Bible is a book written by men. To control .. primarily to control via fear. Carrot and stick.

Next -- how do you imagine God or the Creator, Ultimate Intelligence, Source or whichever title you prefer ? Think about it. On one hand you're taught that God is vengeful, contradictory, biased, jealous, etc. But at the same time, you're told that God is 'mercy, forgiveness, compassion, understanding' etc. So which is it ?

Ok. How did you get here? Did someone send you ? Did you choose to come ?

Whatever the case, you didn't engineer and design yourself, did you? You had no say in the traits you inherited.

So is it your fault if you have a natural tendency to lie, or to steal or to bully others, deceive them, lose your temper easily or are not too bright ?

How could it be YOUR fault ? You just have to deal with the cards you're dealt, right ?

And if anyone's responsible for the way you are and for the fact you're here at all ... isn't the one responsible God ?

If you cook a meal or make a shirt and they don't turn out successfully ... who is to blame ? The meal ? The shirt ?

Aren't YOU responsible ?

In the same way, isn't God responsible for the way you are ?

So where would be the justice or fairness in blaming you for the way you are -- when you had no choice but be as you are ?

Do you believe God is unjust, unfair, irresponsible ?

Or do you believe God accepts responsibility and accepts you, just as you are, faults and all ?

You're the child. God is God.

You behave like a typical faulty little human. A child when compared to God.
And God behaves like a super-compassionate, all understanding, all forgiving, all merciful, all humorous, all knowing ... GOD !

Don't believe these people when they try to convince you that you won't be reunited with God. They don't know what they're talking about. They make it up as they go along. They've taken the words of men and tried to convince that they're the word of God.

EVERYone is reunited with God. We are God's brain cells. We return to our Source.

God doesn't play mind-games with his creatures. He doesn't carry a calculator. He doesn't prattle on on You Tube or in packed stadiums. That's because God isn't interested in frightening, undermining and controlling his children. He doesn't charge admission or allow only a select few to enter. Well of course He doesn't. He put you here and he'll collect you when your time here is done.

If you keep that in mind throughout your little human-journey, the scare-mongers and the wannabe-speshuls won't be able to get under your skin.

God understands EVERYthing. That's all you need to know.

I honestly don't know where to begin with this sort of nonsense.

dont




this thread was intended for Christians who understand what salvation is



i wont debate wether or not the Bible is true in this topic. i could easly answer your questions but im interested in something else right now

Originally posted by DHammer
as weird as this may sound im not familiar with that verse youre talking about, please give it to me

John could have seen the people who were in Heaven BEFORE Jesus departed and went up to the Father.

what you need to understand is that before Jesus, people were not required to walk the narrow way that we have to now, they had a different way to be saved, sacrificing lambs etc. The "few" only applies to the ones living before Jesus departed obviously , since Theres no narrow way in the Old Testament.

now if John saw all the people that will be in Heaven when Jesus comes the 2-nd time than i think its fair to say there will be A LOT if we add the people who got saved during 6000 years.

so either way John was right

John saw this when he was given the Revelation of the end times. And this "multitude" he saw was not simply humans from 6,000 years.

It was humans from only 3 1/2 years. The last 3 1/2 years of the Great Tribulation. Remember, the antichrist doesn't go out on a mission to murder Christians until the midway point of the Tribulation period, or the "Great" Tribulation cycle of it.

Revelation 7:9-14:

"9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. "

So, out of just the last half of the 7 year tribulation, or the "Great" half of the Tribulation period, John sees a "great multitude" that "no man can number".

That isn't from a 6,000 year history of mankind... but only 3 1/2 years.

When Jesus says in Matthew that few find life - he is referring to eternal life. Jesus says in John, that eternal life is knowing the one true Father and the Christ.

The keys to the kingdom are simple: repent, water baptism, and become childlike (willing to accept and totally trust things that can't be seen).

One more - feet washing. Is this even around anymore? If Jesus said we are to do this to one another, why isn't every Christian Church putting it into practice? Christ did this to his disciples/followers because if he didn't - they would have no part of him. If a person has had a bath/water baptism, the only thing left for them to do is to reclean their feet.

John the Baptist's baptism cleansed the body of sin. Jesus' cleanses the feet, to prepare you to walk a Holy path on Holy ground. Moses was told to take his shoes off in the presence of the Lords voice. And Abraham, who God calls his "friend" washed the Angel of the Lords feet.

Recently I read a Near Death Experience book, and there were two cases where Angels are always around these kids when they are dying - but Jesus is always at the foot of the bed. Finally the Doctor asked the second child why Jesus was at the foot of the bed and he said "Don't you know? He's washing my feet."

"Unless I wash you, you have no part with me." John 13:8

Its not being converted into Christian for you to go into the kingdom of God. You dont actually need a church or even a priest, nor even your family to become faithful to God or to go to heaven. Its up to you on how are you going to follow God's will. All of us has a purpose on this world. Just follow Him and He will welcome you to His Kingdom.

Originally posted by DHammer
this was supposed to be a topic for Christians, because they understand best what salvation is

:shk::shk: Why certainly, because the rest of us low life "heretics" who actually think for ourselves would never understand salvation. You know what's weird? I believe in Jesus and I have Christian values, but your comments are sickening to me.

[edit on 28-9-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

All Christians eventually go to Heaven, some are turned away but at some point... If your goal is to go to Heaven you will get there, it just takes a while. Sorry if I've no scriptures to back this up, but it's just my personal belief that's all.

So do people of other religions all go to hell no matter how much good they do?

I'm starting to get worried...no, not really

NOTurTypical

the tribulation the verse in Revelation could refer to is the tribulation that all saved Christians endure during the painful walk on the narrow way !


it doenst say that came out of THE tribulation, i.e. the period of 3 and 1/2 years, it says OF A GREAT trib, because each men's walk is unique yet alike and just as painful !

see if we`re to ignore the true salvation it doenst make sense at all but when the narrow way comes it it makes total sense, thats what i think

Unless I wash you, you have no part with me." John 13:8

Myrtales Instinct, i believe this verse refers to salvation also, and the washing of the feet is symbolic. just like WATER is often a key word for Gods love, i.e. LIFE at the end of the way,or salvation.

here is 100% proof that the word water IS sometimes used to describe Gods love. its a codeword, a symbol , call it whatever you like

O Lord, the hope of Israel,
all who forsake you shall be put to shame;
those who turn away from you shall be written in the earth,
for they have forsaken the Lord, the fountain of living water.
—Jeremiah 17:13

now obviously God is not a fountain so He`s refering to something else. I think its fair to say the Lord is a spirit of love, or a fountain of love, call it whatever you like

[edit on 30-9-2008 by DHammer]

Originally posted by DHammer
NOTurTypical

the tribulation the verse in Revelation could refer to is the tribulation that all saved Christians endure during the painful walk on the narrow way !


it doenst say that came out of THE tribulation, i.e. the period of 3 and 1/2 years, it says OF A GREAT trib, because each men's walk is unique yet alike and just as painful !

see if we`re to ignore the true salvation it doenst make sense at all but when the narrow way comes it it makes total sense, thats what i think

Unless I wash you, you have no part with me." John 13:8

Myrtales Instinct, i believe this verse refers to salvation also, and the washing of the feet is symbolic. just like WATER is often a key word for Gods love, i.e. LIFE at the end of the way,or salvation.

here is 100% proof that the word water IS sometimes used to describe Gods love. its a codeword, a symbol , call it whatever you like

O Lord, the hope of Israel,
all who forsake you shall be put to shame;
those who turn away from you shall be written in the earth,
for they have forsaken the Lord, the fountain of living water.
—Jeremiah 17:13

now obviously God is not a fountain

so He`s refering to something else. I think its fair to say the Lord is a spirit of love, or a fountain of love, call it whatever you like

That's not accurate, by the time John says this to the Lord the seals have already been opened for Daniel's 70th week, ot the "tribulation week". The second half of this week, or the last 3 1/2 years is called the "great" Tribulation.

It's during the 2nd half that Christians will be martyred.

Originally posted by DHammer
NOTurTypical

Myrtales Instinct, i believe this verse refers to salvation also, and the washing of the feet is symbolic. just like WATER is often a key word for Gods love, i.e. LIFE at the end of the way,or salvation.

here is 100% proof that the word water IS sometimes used to describe Gods love. its a codeword, a symbol , call it whatever you like

O Lord, the hope of Israel,
all who forsake you shall be put to shame;
those who turn away from you shall be written in the earth,
for they have forsaken the Lord, the fountain of living water.
—Jeremiah 17:13

now obviously God is not a fountain

so He`s refering to something else. I think its fair to say the Lord is a spirit of love, or a fountain of love, call it whatever you like

Aha! But what if you are wrong and he is a fountain of living water and most people like you think he is really talking of something else, when in all actuality, what he really had been saying all along - is the undeniable truth? Could that possibly be what Jesus was talking about when he said, "few find life." Could the fact, that few find eternal life, have to do with "Perception?"

Example - it says in Isaiah, and is echoed in 1 Corinthians "no eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared (for those who love him)."

Most people who read that let their minds drift, to all these wonderful possibilites, that will occur in paradise in the heavenly realms, after they die. But how would it change things if people recognize, that these words were intended all along for the here and now?

Everything that ever needed to be done, was accomplished when the veil in the temple was ripped open at Jesus' death. If God is not going to come up and whisper in each of our ears, that he is right here with us - right now - how else could he possibly communicate with us?

More than 90% of our blood is water. What is the first miraculous sign, that Jesus did? It occurred in Cana, when he changed ordinary water into wine.

I'm going to throw you a curve ball. The six jars used to change the water into wine, were ceremonial cleansing jars, that each held 20 to 30 gallons a piece. Jesus told the servants to fill them to the brim and then he worked his miracle. John records this as a "miraculous sign." A miracle is supernatural and a sign points to God.

Water and blood came out of Jesus when he was pierced on the cross. Wine is symbolic of his blood. Water in to wine. His blood manifesting in our blood - alive and perceptable. You can't see it, you can't hear it, and you definately didn't see it coming.

God is now communicating with his follower.

"See, I am doing a new thing! Now it springs up; do you not perceive it?" Isaiah 43:19

Originally posted by DHammer

this thread was intended for Christians who understand what salvation is

Then perhaps you should have clarified that in your OP. Thereby saving non-christian people such as myself who merely wish to satisfy their curiosity the wasted time and effort.