Would a world without religion be a better place?

Originally posted by GrndLkNatv
Without some form of religion, moral living, there is no civilization.. It's pretty easy to see...

If you were never told "thou shalt not kill", would you run around killing people? people can judge morality on there own, aswell as seek spirituality, religion is not needed for these things, from what I have found out through asking friends etc, church (as an example) is more about the collective experience, within the church, throughout the service, this is a good thing about religion, that people will find hard IF religion were to be abolished.

EMM

reply to post by ScienceDada


Imagine the world if Christianity never took hold. Sure, the christian churches did many horrible things but before there was Christianity it was much worse. Take the Aztecs for example or cannibalistic peoples, etc...

To blame religion for all the wars, and violence in the world is ludicrous.
Mankind does a good job of waging war, based on everything from sports to food.
Look at some of the soccer games in Europe and S. America, where the crowds end up killing each other, because they support different teams.

Two countries went to war over a WOMAN named Helen a few thousand years ago. No religion was the cause of that war.

Most wars start because of either GREED, WANT or FEAR, not Religion.

Many wars today are fought over resources like OIL, WATER, and FOOD.

Furthermore, even in many wars that people attribute to religion, it is really other factors that precipitated those wars.

Many times people blame someone or something else, because they fail to look in the mirror and recognize the true cause.

Have there been any wars, where religion was the precipitating agent? Sure, most people attribute religion as the primary factor in the Crusades. However, without religion, there would still be just as many wars, as long as mankind is not satisfied with what they have.
On the down side, without religion, much of the moral code we have today, which prevents many types of violence, because of people's religious beliefs, would not be present.
Let's not use religion as a whipping boy, especially since most religions advocate peace. It isn't the religion that precipitates wars, it is the PEOPLE.

This is not even possible. Everyone has a different concept. I've only met a few that share mine and their has struck me as primitive and unloving since I was 10 and began to study scriptures. Do you think you can tell people what to value, what to believe, what to think? Their enormous imaginations and mental abilities will always create new variations on everything imaginable.

I once saw a promo for a documentary on the BBC. It showed the NYC skyline, then the words "Imagine A World Without Religion" faded in, then the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center faded in. I believe that a person can be spiritual without religion. In my mind, spirituality should be a personal thing, whereas religion is a system which places too many constraints on the individual. So, yes, the world would be a better place without religion.

I think spiritual expression has an absolute value if only to juxtapose the position of non-believers, and I believe in the freedom for believers and non-believers to gather and talk about their beliefs.

The issue as it appears to me is in the absolute nature of most religions. But I also believe this is an issue that goes further than religion to something more basic in human nature. How religion applies in society is generally a matter for society to decide, but I could not advocate a state of no religion. Even in a situation of enforced religion I can only say it is wrong to enforce it.

[edit on 20-9-2008 by TravelerintheDark]

This question is not an easy one to answer. Not everything is black and white, in fact, almost nothing is black or white. Even people arn't black or white. White's are more of a peach color while black's are more of a brown/tan. But I digress .

Ever see the Matrix? Of course you have. I see religion as the matrix. It's a system of control, however, some are not ready to leave that system of control because without it they feel out of control. Ironic isn't it? I believe that religion does serve a purpose. Hope, faith, laws, a greater purpose - all help the psychology of those without. I'm an atheist, but I still have hope, faith, laws, and a purpose. There are many people who are less likely to have these traits without religion. Religion is like a gap from early civilization to modern civilization. The more we advance, the less we need religion, because we learn more about our origins, the universe, and the way our minds work. We replace fear with a knowledge of why.
So I believe a world without religion will be a better place once we are ready to take that step.

Its not an opinion. Who thinks they're all that and can tell anyone what to think and feel and believe. Educating people is all right, many learn when many alternate view points are put before them. But no one will ever get the copyright franchise to our minds. The concept that some authority will pull this off by force will receive nonstop never-ending reaction from free thinking people who really don't give a rats a** what any dictator wanna be thinks. I'd tell him to go in the corner and study his navel, with a new mantra: "Oh what an a** I am!"
Then I'd give him the rose of one of my fingers and the bouquet!

[edit on 20-9-2008 by mystiq]

[edit on 20-9-2008 by mystiq]

I think the world would be much better off without religion.

However, I am defining religion as an organized system, with doctrine and dogma.

It would be impossible to have a world without spirituality, as it is part of the human condition, in my opinion. Although there are those who self identify as atheist, or not spiritual at all, I have yet to personally meet a true atheist. Most I have met are actually agnostic and think that means atheist.

My argument has nothing to do with the wars that are fought in the name of religion, but to a more fundamental problem with it. Religions as organized structures seem wholly incapable of spreading the heart of the the spiritual teaching they are meant to represent. Instead what is spread is reliance on particulars, words, phrases, images, idols.

I think by far the better method would be to do away with those structures and teach each person only one thing. You have to find the way to "God" yourself.

And, I somewhat disagree with your professor or whomever said that wars are fought over three things, resources, religion and politics. I think that if one went deep enough one would find resources at the heart of ALL wars. Religion and politics are merely the way the wars are sold to the people who are going to be dying for those resources. Just my considered take on it.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
My argument has nothing to do with the wars that are fought in the name of religion, but to a more fundamental problem with it. Religions as organized structures seem wholly incapable of spreading the heart of the the spiritual teaching they are meant to represent. Instead what is spread is reliance on particulars, words, phrases, images, idols.

I can't disagree with your idea, but I see this as the essential failure of every human institution, not just religion. The problem as it pertains to religion though is that religious institutions are harder to pin down in value, as they pertain to the larger structure of society, as the ideas can be so varied. In other words, it isn't integral to social structure. But that doesn't make it wrong either.

Whether we discuss a religious institution or a political or national institution, they are run by men(in the broad sense of mankind, not gender). Men are fallible, and herein lies the problem. Religion is a structure run by fallible beings, and as a result, is fallible. Fallible beings can strive to mimic the infallible and perfect God , but of course, always fall short. It is not RELIGIONS that fail us, it is we, as fallible beings that fail, in our attempt to follow our religions. God does not cause war, it is we, that cause it.

reply to post by ScienceDada



Would a world without religion be a better place?

Yes, but only if everyone can outgrow the need for it.
In the meantime, a large dose of tolerance would do wonders.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
It is not RELIGIONS that fail us, it is we, as fallible beings that fail, in our attempt to follow our religions. God does not cause war, it is we, that cause it.

I would argue that it absolutely IS religions that fail us.

Religions try to set in stone forever a "right" way to follow God, right ways to act, and to behave. If you believe in a God or a Divine creator, look around you. The Divine does not create rigid structures. Man does. Nature, living things, the very Earth itself, is change and evolution. Even the continents move, rise and fall. Even the greatest mountains are subject to erosion.

God, if you want to use that name, is the unchanging which manifests as constant change. Since we are "manifest" or material beings, we also are in a state of constant change and evolution. The Divine "law" for us, therefore, would logically be to FOLLOW the Divine will, not act in direct opposition to it. It would be to change, to adapt, to evolve WITH the Divine will, not randomly, but rather by listening to it, seeing what is occurring, adapting ourselves to the movements of the world as created and directed by the Divine. Acting in Harmony with the Divine movement, not railing against it. A hurricane is coming? Move. Dont just stand there in your false assumption that "change is against God and He will prevent this." The Divine is telling you to move. Move.

Religion has virtually nothing to do with having a relationship with the Divine. In fact I would say that the more "religious" a person is, the more dedicated to following the "religious doctrines" laid down by MEN, the further from the ability to hear the Divine itself one is. Those doctrines at one time may very well have been in accordance with the will of God. But things have changed since then. As they must here on Earth where change is the Divine law.

Why stand around following instructions that are thousands of years old, whether they made sense at the time or not? If God is the God of the living, if God is life itself, then you should be listening to God NOW, as the Divine is communicating with us NOW, not standing around fighting over what he said to different people in different times and places.

That doesnt mean to abandon all the spiritual teachings completely, just that one should look at the only one that really matters. Which is that God or the Divine will speak to YOU in the moment, if you only have ears to hear and eyes to see. What made each and every one of the "prophets" great was not their mastery of old texts or tales, but their ability to sit still and listen to the Divine as it spoke to them in the moment. It was not their religion that made them great, but their willingness and their ability to open their ears, eyes and heart and have a relationship with the Divine in real time.

We should not be following religions. We should be following the Divine itself.

[edit on 22-9-2008 by Illusionsaregrander]