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Are we in Iraq for historical artifacts?

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posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 09:03 PM
Isn't Iraq like the first country with written law in it? Did we just go into Iraq to recover artifacts for the military? Tell me if I'm wrong... but... like I honestly feel that our government is hiding its real motives for being there.

posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 09:13 PM
Sounds like a stretch, but I have considered the possibility. Reminds me of those theories about how the war was a smokescreen while Hitler sought ancient or occult knowledge and artifacts. Maybe the Bush's are doing it again. They do have ties to nazis after all.

posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 09:18 PM
I just discussed this very thing with a very trusted friend whom I listen to INTENTLY. He is an expert at solving puzzles and this was, what he thought, was a no-brainer.
Iraq is the birthplace of civilization in many, many ways. The Tigris and Euphrates rivers are where a lot of early civilization occured. The Tower of Babylon was here. Much of the Old Testament refers to the lands that now encompass Iraq, Syria. Assyrians, Sumerians and Hittites all left many things buried under the sand and land we are militarily controlling right now.
What was one of the first problems we came across as we entered Baghdad? Looting and Pillaging of Iraqs Museums and antiquities.

Starred and Flagged, OP. Good post!


posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 09:32 PM
If you consider oil an historical artifact, then yes!

posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 09:48 PM
Why stop with oil? The artifacts stolen from the museums in 2003 is slowly being returned, but, I have to believe that, with the numbers, there is much more that isn't being returned. The thieves aren't focused upon so much as the countries that have returned items like:

700 pieces from Syria

2500 pieces from Jordan

This article talks about the ceremony Syria attended and what US Military reps said about the thefts themselves.

Iraq Museum Celebrates Return Of Artifacts

BAGHDAD, Iraq — The Iraqi National Museum on Sunday celebrated the return of some 700 artifacts that were looted following the U.S.-led invasion in 2003 and surfaced recently in neighboring Syria.

The items, which include 5,000-year-old stones inscribed with cuneiform and precious gold jewelry from the 19th century, were seized from traffickers by Syrian border guards, museum officials said. They represent only a fraction of the thousands of artifacts dating from the Stone Age to the Islamic Era that were stolen from Iraq's world-class collection during the war.

Syria held a ceremony last week to hand over the seized items to Iraqi officials. Museum officials showed off the items but said they'll remain under lock and key — like the other pieces remaining in the museum's collection — until security in Baghdad improves.

In the anarchic days that followed the U.S. invasion, looters besieged Iraq's national museum, an unassuming brick building in central Baghdad that housed what archaeologists called one of the world's foremost collections of Mesopotamian antiquities. The U.S. military faced intense criticism at the time for not doing enough to protect the priceless pieces.

U.S. officials who investigated the thefts have said that they were likely the work of well-organized criminals rather than random looters. Marine Col. Matthew Bogdanos, who led a U.S. military probe into the thefts, said last month that the trafficking of Iraqi antiquities was helping to finance Al Qaida in Iraq and Shiite Muslim militias such as Lebanon's Hezbollah.

Of some 15,000 stolen pieces, about 4,700 have been returned to the museum. Thousands more pieces have been seized by authorities in countries all over the world, including the United States, United Kingdom, Spain, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.


The numbers are astounding! There's more to the story than people know.


(edit to fix code)

[edit on 8/27/2008 by Cuhail]

[edit on 8/27/2008 by Cuhail]

posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 09:57 PM
i believe they are yes. that place is full of history. its where it all began. destroy the facts (or hide them)....keep us as sheeple....not gonna happen

posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 10:17 PM
Nebuchadnezzar was king of Babylon ie. Iraq.
Events are written about him in the Tanakh or Jewish Holy Scriptures.
In 587 BC, Nebuchadnezzar's army defeated Israel, destroyed the Temple on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, and deported the Jewish population.
All the treasures of the Temple were then taken back to Babylon, but the Ark of the Covenant was never mentioned as one of them.
There are several theories of what happened to it, but know one has ever found it supposedly.
It's quite possible the Ark is in Iraq, and it could be possible the US and the Iraeli Gov. might be actively seeking it, and who knows, they may have even found it.

posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 11:16 PM
reply to post by 4x4fun

I was looking into what was stolen from the museum. Lists, descriptions, etc. and came across this article, from National Geographic just a few days into the invasion and right after the looting occured.

Looting of the Iraq Museum -National Geographic

The cuneiform tablets, which were located on the second floor away from the riot of destruction, for the most part appear to be intact, their record of the world's earliest written history still preserved. Safe, too, are the skulls and bones from Shanidar Cave in the mountains of northern Iraq. These Neandertal remains represent some of the earliest human ancestors found in the Middle East. Museum curators also reported that the lizard-faced terra-cotta figurine and the 4,500-year-old boat model described in the article—both of the Ubaid culture—escaped the pillage. Wright recounted that a providential electricity failure may have saved a collection of cylinder seals about to be looted. The darkness hid what would-be thieves were after.


About the looting of the National Museum of Iraq

As examples of what was gone, the officials cited a solid gold harp from the Sumerian era, which began about 3360 B.C. and started to crumble about 2000 B.C. Another item on their list of looted antiquities was a sculptured head of a woman from Uruk, one of the great Sumerian cities, dating to about the same era, and a collection of gold necklaces, bracelets and earrings, also
from the Sumerian dynasties and also at least 4,000 years old.

But an item-by-item inventory of the most valued pieces carried away by the looters hardly seemed to capture the magnitude of what had occurred. More powerful, in its way, was the action of one museum official in hurrying away through the piles of smashed ceramics and torn books and burned-out torches of rags soaked in gasoline that littered the museum's corridors to find the glossy catalog of an exhibition of "silk road civilization" that was held in Japan's ancient capital of Nara in 1988.

Turning to 50 pages of items lent by the Iraqi museum for the exhibition, he said that none of the antiquities pictured remained after the looting. They included ancient stone carvings of bulls and kings and princesses; copper shoes and cuneiform tablets; tapestry fragments and ivory figurines of goddesses and women and Nubian porters; friezes of soldiers and ancient seals and tablets on geometry; and ceramic jars and urns and bowls, all dating back at least 2,000 years, some more than 5,000 years.

"All gone, all gone," he said. "All gone in two days."

I can't find a current, accurate list of what is still missing, but, a LOT of sites I saw refered to the sale of Mesopotaemian (sic?) items on eBay and Craig's List and the buying of such items just to return them to their home, Baghdad Museum.


(Edit to again fix code)

[edit on 8/27/2008 by Cuhail]

posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 11:49 PM
Thanks for this thread.

I've tried to start discussions on this topic a number of times at ATS, but it always gets drowned out quickly. Basically, any great reform movement or "national / racial identity movement is motivated or otherwise sped along by finding an ancient artifact at the time when the people are at a loss.

You see this in the Bible itself. Originally, the Torah only consisted of 4 books. According to II Kings 22, The book of Deuteronomy didn't exist until the priest Hilkiah found it while refurbishing the Temple. King Josiah was converted by the book, and banned the worship of other gods in Israel, and route their enemies

. In other words, an ancient found artifact united the race, and brought them the unity they needed to expel the foreign usurpers.

Similarly, The Shroud of Turin, was used by the various cities that possessed it (Constantinople, Troyes, Turin), to ward of their enemies by displaying it from the city walls.

The Iron Crown of Lombardy allegedly contains the three nails used to crucify Jesus of Nazareth. The kings of the Lombards had the nails made into a crown, and the crown was traditionally used to crown the Holy Roman Emperor. Napoleon chose this crown for his own coronation as the ruler of the French Empire.

Likewise, Joan of Arc failed to obtain leadership over the men of France, until she correctly prophesied where the Sword of Charlemagne was buried in the Chapel of St. Catharine at Fierbois. Frenchmen viewed it as her divine mandate to drive the English from France.

An ancient found artifact united the race, and brought them the unity they needed to expel the foreign usurpers.

There are countless other artifacts, from the Stone of Scone to the Crown of St. Stephen, to the Black Madonna of Czestochowa, or the Sacred Pipe of the White Buffalo Woman among the Lakota.

In each instance, the bequeathing or (re)discovery of an ancient artifact reinvigorates the people to drive out their foreign antagonists and erect a golden age.

But the situation gets even more interesting. There are a number of missing artifacts. Ancient relics that thave disappeared into the mists of history, but whose appearance would have a galvanizing effect on world history.

Most Westerners will think of the Lost Ark of the covenant. Easterners will think of the lost Jade Seal of Imperial China, which was lost in the Ten Kingdoms, but whose re-appearance would send shockwaves accross Asia......

posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 09:01 AM
reply to post by dr_strangecraft

Good post Doc!

The Iron Crown of Lombardy allegedly contains the three nails used to crucify Jesus of Nazareth. The kings of the Lombards had the nails made into a crown, and the crown was traditionally used to crown the Holy Roman Emperor. Napoleon chose this crown for his own coronation as the ruler of the French Empire.

The legendary Spear of Destiny supposedly carried a nail from the Crucifixion as well. How many nails did they use on Jesus? Three in the Crown (More info on this is officially requested, sir) and one in the Spear.

Thanks dr_ for kicking in. You've provided some cool stuff to investigate.


Edit to add Wikipedia refers to the crown being made from ONE nail...

The Iron Crown is so called from a narrow band of iron about one centimeter (three-eighths of an inch) within it, said to be beaten out of one of the nails used at the crucifixion. According to tradition, the nail was first given to Emperor Constantine I by his mother Helena, who discovered the cross of the Crucifixion.


[edit on 8/28/2008 by Cuhail]

posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 09:33 AM
In catholic understanding there are "orders" of relics. A first order relic is a piece of a saint, part of the implement used to kill them, or something meaningful from their life. Because of a shortage of relics, new congregations were allowed to sanctify a ceremonial object, and then touch it to the original relic, imbuing the ceremonial memorial or replica with the spiritual symbolism of the first object.

Most of the "nails" and "wood from the cross" are actually 2nd order relics, that uneducated people assumed were the physical original object. Since every catholic altar is supposed to contain some sort of relic, it's easy to see how the confusion could emerge.

There are even "third order relics," where the object in question was only ever touched to a 2nd order relic, and not to the original artifact. I think 3rd order relics are only for personal devotion, and not for consecrating altars and the like. I'm not completely sure I have all this right, but a quick read of the catholic encyclopedia article would probably cover it.

Sorry I never tied my post i with the theme of the thread: Iraq.

Among the missing artifacts that I believe would have an instant impact on world history, I can think of one immediately with serious ties to Iraq: "the Fragment of the True Cross."

Quoting myself in another thread:

So, what about Iraq?

While some have speculated that the Synagogue at Dura Europos in Syria presents evidence that the Ark was taken East, there is another artifact that seems more likely to have been hidden in modern Iraq; an artifact that would send shockwaves through the west, and through the Arab world in the hands of a muslim leader.

There is one relic that the Crusaders believed made them invincible in battle, and sanctioned any bloody mistakes they made in the conquest of the Outremer, the Holy Land. They called it the "True Cross," containing the only genuine fragment of the cross on which Jesus had been crucified, about a yard high, encased within a golden cross-shaped box and studded with jewels.

Accounts vary, but either shortly before or during the Battle of Hattin in Israel in 1187, the Arab ruler Saladin came into possession of the True Cross, either by theft, betrayal by part of the crusader forces, or in the battle itself.

At one time, Saladin claimed to have burnt the true cross and thrown the ashes to the four winds. But his own court records state that he dragged it (or at least the outer golden case) through the streets of Damascus before his successful siege of Jerusalem. It's a little difficult to believe that an enlightened monarch like Saladin (who had many loyal Christian subjects) would have ultimately destroyed such a valuable bargaining chip for fending off future crusades. . .

Like Saddam Hussein, Saladin was born near Tikrit in modern Iraq. Unlike Hussein, Saladin was actually of Kurdish rather than Arab descent. It has been said that Kurds "wear their Islam lightly"; while officially muslim, there are large Christian, Jewish and especially Yezidi communities among the Kurds.

If Saladin had wanted to remove the True Cross beyond the reach of any future crusading armies, he may have though it was safe forever in his homeland, among his own people in northern Mesopotamia. Certainly the insular, oppressed communities of Kurds would be loathe to admit it if they knew of, or even possessed a relic that might eventually play a key role in the creation of a Kurdish state.

posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 10:06 AM
in no particular order of importance from 1-6

pick one

2.staging area to attack iran
3. to build bases closer to isreal to protect them and build missile shield
4. to recover artifacts relating to 2012
5 stage welcoming bases for when the annunaki come back
they originally landed there so we fiqure that were they are gonna land again when they want to return and make themselfs known
6. something having to do with stargate tech
7. because islam is the only main thing standing in the way of the new world order

all the these possible reasons might all be true imagine that

posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 04:04 PM

Originally posted by truthseekerpeacemaker

all the these possible reasons might all be true imagine that

Yeah, you can honestly write anything you want and follow it up with words like "possible", "might" and "imagination" and it still doesn't really make it so.
I can imagine monkeys flying out of my butt and that makes it possible? No. But if you have some kind of supporting data (links, articles, etc), people are more apt to take it seriously.

By the way, 1, 2 and 3 on your list make sense. They can be backed up with some data, but, IMO, the rest is your personal speculation.

Just saying

posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 04:28 PM
reply to post by Frankidealist35

Well maybe no, but this could be one of the reasons. The earliest civilizations were mesopotamian, meaning the area around two rivers of Eufrat and Tigris. No one interested in UFOs and aliens could easily dismiss the importance of that area. One has to remember only the Sumerian tablets and their 'rulers' that descended from heavens and their "city" was visible in the orbit. UFO's just being only one curiousity that might draw attention, there is only whole variety of esoteric and religous texts and other artefacts that could be found.

But of course they went there because of Saddam and his MWD's (mass wealth detonators, or the oil)



posted on Nov, 13 2008 @ 09:51 AM
Actually, if you want to see the oldest known code of law, you would have to go to the Louvre to see the Codex Hammurabi. The code was found in Iran, where it had been taken after being looted in the 12 century BC.
Having been in Iraq, I can assure you, I never saw or heard of US troops trying to collect artifacts except to return them to the people and government of Iraq. The Iraqis, especially the Ba'athists looted the stuff. The Ba'athists had the really good stuff before the US ever invaded. They and the looters moved the priceless antiques out of the country and sold them off. The Ba'athists sold them to finance the insurgency.
Even now, they're still trying to sell the stuff off.
Iraq is so old, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting something. The ground is full of antiquities. I was on a base where they had a hard time digging or building anything because the ground was littered with broken pots that were believed to be precious antiquities.


posted on Nov, 13 2008 @ 09:54 AM
This is definately true. I believe they're after stuff that even predates the egyptians. Some buy into that they're after extraterrestrial/interdimensional stuff... I think those people watch tooooo much stargate.

I tend to buy into the theories that Civilization has reached technological advancements like this before, but possibly more spiritual. And waring nations destroyed it all.

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