Should have seen it coming! US war with Russia?

Mods please dont move or merge this as its sorta not relating to Georgia.

Russia Says Response to U.S. Missile Shield Deal With Poland Will Go Beyond Diplomacy

www.foxnews.com...


We should have seen this coming. It looks like the problem that went away has come back full blast overnight!

I think war is all but imminent at this point!

[edit on 8/20/2008 by AndrewTB]

That is a very harsh statement from Russia.
I'm no doomsayer but this starting to look very serious. I guess we can just hope that if it does come to an armed conflict that everyone will leave the nukes out of it.

Originally posted by Anjin
That is a very harsh statement from Russia.
I'm no doomsayer but this starting to look very serious. I guess we can just hope that if it does come to an armed conflict that everyone will leave the nukes out of it.

Fortunately both sides know using nukes will be an endgame for everyone. Either way regardless of how this were to develop, if it comes to war its going to be very bloody to say the least.


I pray im wrong.

By Paul Craig Roberts:

The neoconservatives represent the greatest danger ever faced by the United States and the world. Humanity has no greater enemy.

vdare.com...

Sounds like it's time for Lech Kaczynski to start eating his tie...

Seriously, I said this would happen when they announced this deal last week. Within days of Russia going into Georgia the US administration was trying to sweeten the deal with Poland to get them signed up for this missile shield. This is not just an accident of timing, this was planned to push Russia's button. If we end up in a war with Russia, it's the direct fault of this administration.

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
This is not just an accident of timing, this was planned to push Russia's button. If we end up in a war with Russia, it's the direct fault of this administration.

Thats open for interpretation and open for debate.

I know if I was Poland i'd have made the same arrangement. Russia has been bullying its neighbors far longer than this issue with Georgia.

Originally posted by AndrewTB

Originally posted by Anjin
That is a very harsh statement from Russia.
I'm no doomsayer but this starting to look very serious. I guess we can just hope that if it does come to an armed conflict that everyone will leave the nukes out of it.

Fortunately both sides know using nukes will be an endgame for everyone. Either way regardless of how this were to develop, if it comes to war its going to be very bloody to say the least.


I pray im wrong.

The thing is, the Russians just don't care...if they are the Russians of old. Has time softened them? I doubt it. Remember World War 2. They just kept throwing people at the bullets until they achieved their goal. Why would we expect this to be any different? Sure people will die, but as long as it advances the cause, it is all good right? While the US has a slightly more humane approach, it isn't much different. The US seems to be willing to sacrifice its population to get them onboard with whatever their plan is (see Pearl Harbor and WTC). Lots of people are going to die on either side, and I suspect nukes will be used.

Originally posted by pluckynoonez
By Paul Craig Roberts:

The neoconservatives represent the greatest danger ever faced by the United States and the world. Humanity has no greater enemy.

vdare.com...

Let me get this straight. The "Neoconservatives" are a greater danger to the world than the Nazi party or the former Soviet Union ever was? How about the Mongols or the Roman empire?

Originally posted by AndrewTB
I know if I was Poland i'd have made the same arrangement. Russia has been bullying its neighbors far longer than this issue with Georgia.

Poland didn't want the shield. Even after Russia moved into Georgia, Poland didn't want the US missile shield on their territory. That's a matter of record and it's also a matter of record that the US added extras onto the deal in the last few days to entice Poland to sign up.

reply to post by Anjin


The Romans, Mongols and Nazi's never brought us this close to a nuclear war. The Soviets may have, but that threat had been gone for almost 2 decades.

This is how war would play out. Russia invades Europe while sending some forces to attack the U.S. by diverting our attention to our own survival.

The Romans, Mongols and Nazi's never brought us this close to a nuclear war. The Soviets may have, but that threat had been gone for almost 2 decades.

Two of the three didn't even know what the word "nuclear" means, the other had just started on developing it...

Russia has been steadily testing the waters of war over the last year, starting with flying little recon/instigation missions with their Bear bombers. Then came the renewal, or attempted renewal of the Russia-Cuba relationship. Next, a Russian fleet setting sail for a Venezuala visit. Add to that the Conflict with Georgia and their response to the Missle Shield.

In Russian defense, would you want any type of Russian armanent in Russia? That's essentially what's happening with the the Poland/Czech deal. There's little doubt that it is in response to Russia's recent activities, and can easily be seen as a provocation.

It's hard to know what to make of all the recent sabre rattling coming from Russia. Who knows what has been going on within Russia for the last 10-20 years. Perhaps they have rebuilt themselves to the point they're ready to reassert themselves on the world military stage?

Regardless, if this continues it will lead to conflict. Regardless of of American power, Russia is still a top 3 military force. America is stretched thin in the middle east, and though I'm sure we've prepared for a reemergent Russia all along, I think our days would be numbered in a conflict with Russia.

America is ripe for the fall.

reply to post by AndrewTB


I won't deny that things are getting tense, but remember that even during a 50-year cold war, the US and Russia never once directly engaged. Yes they fought proxy wars, but they were never officially at war. It's all still posturing.

There will be no major war. Not in the near future at least. People on both side have a lot (understatement) to loose. Leaders on both sides have a lot to loose. Even those guys that push for new cold war - on both sides as i can see it - have to much to loose.
But there are forces that will gain from this new cold war and they push the situation in that direction. On both sides. I saw on this boards threads talking about new US destroyer plans stalling, F-22 is not receiving proper finding for aquistions and i am sure that there is much more toys that US (and other NATO members/other countries (including my own) ) senate/other Western Parliaments are not going to approve funding for. War with terror is war with poorly armed people. No need for Zumwalt class destroyer (example). Now cold war with Russia - a different story. Other Western forces, maybe more important ones, are pushing for it too probably, just i am not that sure what they represent.
As for Russia - it is now a controlled "democracy" - tyranny basically. It cannot compete with West on any front except oil/gas/other minerals and similar stuff. And it is what feeds Russian economy. They go to war with West - they loose if it is nuclear or not. But cold war will allow to receive money from the West while keeping tight control on Russia ( i bet on Vladimir Putin the first, Savior of Russian empire being coronated in less then a decade). So the only choice to appear strong inside and outside is seal their subjects in. New semi-permissible iron membrane. Rich generals and few surviving money bags will enjoy Western resorts while bashing West inside Russia. No threat of a new orange revolution. And in this way Russia will be able to win a lot if it is going to maneuver smartly between China and West.
So no WW3, guys. Only artificial CW2.

Am I the only one who thinks that a renewed cold war happens to be in the best interests of both nations?

This all feels nicely choreographed.

I have a few things I want to check out, but I'm already seeing things that make me go...."hmmm".

Our "Visitors" from other World's will not let a Nuke go off in this world. I think they will destroy Nukes if they are launched.

reply to post by loam


Think of the benefits of a Cold War that pushed the U.S. when competing with another nation. For example the launch of the Sputnik by the Soviets that shocked America and push the development in technology by emphasizing more on education. Now we are just complacent because we are supposedly number 1 in cultural, economically, politically, militarily, etc. Think of the Olympics where China is earning more Gold and we are near stalemate on the medal count. Maybe the U.S. would spend more on training and helping current and future athletes to do better in the next Olympics to compete with China. So think of that for our own country if China was becoming more powerful in terms of military and economy and we need to do better.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by deltaboy]

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


Excellent points. Both countries need this, although more so the US. It will awake up the economies in both countries and hopefully pull the US out of the current slump. As long as they can keep it to just smack talk and not fisticuffs, all will be right with the world.

Click here for more information.

This is how war would play out. Russia invades Europe while sending some forces to attack the U.S. by diverting our attention to our own survival.

Russia would lose badly if they attacked an EU country.
Even without the proposed future 1 million strong EU army, there is an EU rapid deployment force of 60,000, a combined EU military budget of over 10 times that of russia and combined nation army force that is almost 2.2 million fully trained and extremely well equipped soldiers.

Put that with the combined Nuclear threat from the UK and france, a second front from the Middle East by the US and the fact that the Russians are not that stupid... a highly unlikely move.