It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by neformore
Some Muslims... indeed, some have to be the bad guys!
Just as some christians, and buddhists, and and church of the flying spaghetti monsterists have to be bad guys also.
Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
So, do you deny that the prophet had a child bride based on this?
From Bukhari vol. 7, #65:
"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""
From the Hadith of Sahih Muslim, Vol 2, #3309
Aisha reported: Allah’s Messenger married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine….
From Abu Dawud, Vol. 2, #2116:
"Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old."
From Tabari, volume 9, page 131
"Then the men and women got up and left. The Messenger of God consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me".
it is based on research and historical documents...
The well-known historian and scholar ‘Allama ‘Imad-ud-Deen Ibn Katheer writes in his 'Al-Badayah' about Sayedah Asma’ daughter of Hazrat Abu Bakr’ (Allah be pleased with him) (and we hope Maulana Syed Abul Ala Maududi must have seen it as he referred to 'Al-Badaya' in his article): Asma’ died in 73 A.H. at the age of 100 years. She was ten years older than her sister ‘Aishah. Now according to this report ‘Asma’ would have been 27-28 years old at the time of Hijrah and since she was ten years older than Sayedah ‘Aishah, therefore the age of Sayedah ‘Aishah would have been 17 or 18 years at the time of Hijrah. Accordingly, her birth falls about four or five years before the Call, and her age at the time of the consummation of marriage in 2 A.H. will work out to 19-20 years.
The author of the well-known collection of Hadith 'Mishkat al-Masabeeh', Sheikh Waheed-ud-Deen, writes in his well-known book 'Ahmal fi Asma’ al-Rijjal':
"At the time of the consummation of her marriage Sayedah ‘Aishah’s age was not less than 18-19 years."
Again, do you deny that the prophet had a child bride?
A truth veiled in a novel does not make it untrue, and more importantly if it is just a novel, then why would Muslims be so enraged over it?
[edit on 10-8-2008 by The_Alarmist2012]
Originally posted by poet1b
You probably should have read the Wall Street Journal article that I linked to at the beginning of the thread.
This time, the instigator of the trouble wasn't a radical Muslim cleric, but an American academic. In April, looking for endorsements, Random House sent galleys to writers and scholars, including Denise Spellberg, an associate professor of Islamic history at the University of Texas in Austin
Originally posted by Brothers
Well if the Muslims are so angry about Muhammad's child bride then why is it that they still have it in their own books. Surely its there and we don't hear anything about banning those books. Its written in Arabic and so its translated into any language to read what it says. So it is written so let it be read.
Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Ownification
Gee, who am I going to believe, what the woman whose life we are talking about wrote about her own life, or some historian writing long after the incident, with obvious motives for trying to change the age of the child bribe. No doubt you will choose what you want, but few will buy this ruse. Considering how clouded your judgement is on the issue, maybe the truth is that the woman who wrote the novel knows far more about the subject than you do. Your relationship with the subject might be clouding your judgement.
Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Ownification
Gee, who am I going to believe, what the woman whose life we are talking about wrote about her own life, or some historian writing long after the incident, with obvious motives for trying to change the age of the child bribe. No doubt you will choose what you want, but few will buy this ruse. Considering how clouded your judgement is on the issue, maybe the truth is that the woman who wrote the novel knows far more about the subject than you do. Your relationship with the subject might be clouding your judgement.
Tehzibu'l-tehzib, one of the most well known books on the life and the reliability of the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet (pbuh) report that according to Yaqub ibn Shaibah:
" He [Hisham] is highly reliable, his narratives are acceptable, except what he narrated after moving over to Iraq." (REF: Tehzi'bu'l-tehzi'b, Ibn Hajar Al-`asqala'ni, Dar Ihya al-turath al-Islami, 15th century. Vol 11, p. 50).
It further states that Malik ibn Anas objected on those narratives of Hisham which were reported through people of Iraq:
“I have been told that Malik [ibn Anas] objected on those narratives of Hisham which were reported through people of Iraq." (REF: Tehzi'b u'l-tehzi'b, Ibn Hajar Al-`asqala'ni, Dar Ihya al-turath al-Islami, Vol.11, p. 50)
Mizanu'l-ai`tidal, another book on the life sketches of the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet (pbuh) reports:
"When he was old, Hisham's memory suffered quite badly" (REF: Mizanu'l-ai`tidal, Al-Zahbi, Al-Maktabatu'l-athriyyah, Sheikhupura, Pakistan, Vol. 4, p. 301)
According to Ibn Kathir:
"She [Asma] was elder to her sister [Ayesha] by ten years". (REF: Al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol. 8, p. 371, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933)
According to Ibn Kathir:
"She [Asma] saw the killing of her son during that year [i.e. 73 AH], as we have already mentioned, and five days later she herself died. According to other narratives she died not after five days but ten or twenty or a few days over twenty or a hundred days later. The most well known narrative is that of hundred days later. At the time of her death, she was 100 years old." (REF: Al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir (died 1333), Vol. 8, Pg. 372, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933)
According to Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani:
"She [Asma (ra)] lived a hundred years and died in 73 or 74 AH." (REF: Taqribu'l-tehzib, Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani, Pg 654, Arabic, Bab fi'l-nisa', al-harfu'l-alif, Lucknow)
Jahilliyya Before Revelation
First Revelation 610 CE
Abu Baker accepts Islam 610 CE
Public preaching 613 CE
Emigration to Abyssenia 615 CE
Umar bin al Khattab accept Islam 616 CE
Generally accepted betrothal of Ayesha 620 CE
Hijarah 622 CE
Generally accepted year of Ayesha living
with Prophet 623 or 624CE (1 or 2 AH)
Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Ownification
Well, the quote in the article I read doesn't sound like pornography, "felt like a scorpion's sting" doesn't sound erotic to me, to a sadist maybe. I doubt if Random House would be publishing this book if it was trashy soft porn.
It has already been established that these are not her wild fantasies, the historical record points to their accuracy.
Is the Christian website threatening to blow up buildings in protest? Write a book if you like, good luck, maybe it will sell. The real question is, can you tell the difference between a thirteen year old girl and a nine year old? Cause there is a huge difference. Extremely few cultures would approve of a middle aged man having intercourse with a 9 year old. It seems that you refuse to see the standards that most of the world has set.
Tell me, do you think that it is right that Random house should be threatened with violence for publishing such a book. Are you willing to denounce this womans threats? Can you show us your moderate side?
Originally posted by poet1b
www.exmuslim.com...