Proving The Existance Of God Cannot Be Done, Stop Trying

Ok Im back ..Sdraw

I thought about really hard and I prayed about that question for some answer that may help you understand about the faith issue .

Here is all I could come up with (at least in my mind and with my experiences)

He does not need to test you and in fact I dont believe he does ......I believe that is us who tests him ..we say we believe but saying something and really believing it as true is sometimes not so cut and dried
I didnt have to prove anything to God .(because he knew my heart and he knows what I am thinking ) .....he needed to prove stuff to me so that when this day came (right here and now telling people about why I believe what I believe and discussing my experiences with people) I can now say 100 % certain that I BELIEVE and I have FAITH that God will do as he says he will do and that I can trust him with my heart without any sort of proof ..
Although those times I TESTED him ....And said SHOW ME YOUR REAL ..that was when I got my proof....I am no longer needing anything more for any sort of proof now ...nadda ....

I could give you an example .
Lets say you have a friend and you say you trust him and you believe him at his word.The only reason why you do is because he showed himself to be trustworthy didnt he ?When you tested him ...he proved he could be trusted by the deeds he has done to show you he was in fact trustworthy.

The same goes with faith .
I believed but didnt really believe in my heart ...I was like alot of people I came to him the first time just because I was afraid ...it wasnt until wayyy later after going through alot ..that I realized I never really believed like I said I did ..and surely God knew that too ....so he waited till I tested him (we all tempt the Lord our God dont we ?) and he got me through each and every thing I went through ..and everytime he gave me so many chances to not have to learn things the hard way ...I WAS SO STUBBORN ...
And let me tell you ..I have tried suicide several times ..taking at least 17 pills at once (very powerful tranqs) and he would not let me die my body went into a quivering state and that kept me awake ..it got so bad I had to crawl out of bed and puke ..And I didnt even go to a hospital ..(I do not know how I lived through that at all) .He said sorry but its really not that simple ..your not just gonna get outta here ..
That is just one itty bitty time I can tell you about ..
I cannot believe I am here today ..And NO ONE ELSE could have done all that God has done for me ...And no other god ..or man ...could have shown himself to be as real as God did for me ......and it took like 25 years of my life to stop fighting with God ....it seems to stupid now to me ..so unecessary (all that I did to try and run from him and life and all the stupid ways I tempted God ) ......

Faith is alot like you trusting a friend ..you say you trust people but when it comes down to it you have in the back of your mind that you may not really trust them at all ...And until that person shows how much he can be trusted .You really cant say that you trust them completely ..


Sorry that is the best I can do ...hope it helped.

Originally posted by AshleyD
We have to remember that there are individuals in this world who don't want to believe. Nothing you could show them or tell them would convince them- or at the very least open their mind to the possibility- because they don't want it to be true. I keep hearing atheists say, 'Hey. Just show me evidence.' Then you do and they're like, 'Oh you're an idiot.' So they are not sincere. They justify their disbelief with some of the most illogical and fallacious arguments I have ever heard and that gives away their close-minded bias.

I can't speak for others, but personaly, I DO want to believe. You have no idea how great it would be for me to be able to say "God did it" instead of contemplating things until my head hurts. You have no idea how great it would be to think that I had an afterlife that would be all peach and cherrys. I believe anyone would WANT to believe in this. The fact that I want to believe in it and yet don't shows that I have outstanding evidence against it. Questions that I have can never be answered. Contradictions of an omnipotent God can never be washed away.

1) Why does the creator judge his creation? It should be the other way around. If God made us fallible, then why does he judge us for being fallible?
* God is omnipotent, so he knows all things and created all things the way they are.
* God knows that the way he created me is to use logic and therefor I would reject his "truth".
* therefor, God created me to go to Hell.

Why should I have to suffer because he created me this way?

Christians always bring up "free will", but it doesn't matter because either God is omnipotent or he is not. If he is omnipotent, then he is evil. If he is not omnipotent, then what is the probability that he even exists?

I guess I could use a parable to describe this.
What's wrong with locking a 4 year old in a room with a shotgun? You know that there is a good chance he will blow his brains out. But it's ok, because he has FREEWILL. He doesn't have to blow his brains out, so if he does he has only himself to blaim.

What's the problem with this? The problem is that those with knowledge must lookout for those without. God does not do this. God knows that there is a good chance that we will burn in Hell, yet he will not do anything about it.

Originally posted by mhc_70
Not an error at all, do you really expect to be able to understand how God thinks enough to make a logical conclusion?

I am amazed at others who use the arguement "Well if he really is God why didn't he just..". Come on people!

The problem with this is then why did God create us with such little knowledge and understanding as to not be able to understand his actions? If God created my logic, and my logic is fallible, then I should blame him for this, not the other way around.

In short, God created the human mind to USE logic, and the logic which I use dictates that God does not exist.

I think why Quote "Proving The Existance Of God Cannot Be Done" is because each human primate, has their own god, according to their own judgement, to suit their own Ideas,

Don't get me wrong, as I have not stated whether or not I believe in a God.


First it is Important to understand what God is!

Not what human Primates want it to be!


To Understand what the True meaning of God, you have to understand the "Word" God.

The roots of this, can be found in the Old Lost ZIONic language...

God is nothing like what "human primates" believe it to be today.

So first let us find out what the "Word" God means...

Take it from One, who has experienced Death as what primates call it.

Yes I was reported as "brain dead". for more than 30 minutes by Doctors, and I mean Dead, Not as in a near death experience.

I was about to be Tapped and Embalmed OK!

But from my view, I was more alive than dead.

So I don't have to guess or believe I know first hand OK...

I know what happens when you Die.

But this world is a very important program of Creation as a whole, because it contains the program of The Birth of The Man Child...

The Birth of The Man Child has absolutely Nothing at all to do with Human Primates!

Instead it is to do with the Soul!

Humankind does Not know what the Soul is, or what it is for!

Jesus the carpenter never taught religion and said "Bow Not down to Me but to thy Lord Thy God"

Jesus Christ is a Name of office and Not a human name.

IC XC

Jesus said "I am The Son of Man and The Son of God"

These are two different things.

The Son of Man is actually the Soul and Not a Human Primate!

The Son of Man is "The Man Child"


Friendly regards,

The Matrix Traveller

Here is a Good Little Script, for everyone to Read,
and it is quite short to read...

I am sure it will inspire both sides...

The Writing is Called:

“The Thunder, Perfect Mind”....

You can get it through most Universities...

You may also find it on the net.


Friendly Regards,

The Matrix Traveller....

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
each human primate, has their own god, according to their own judgement, to suit their own Ideas,

This is essentially the problem. No one is interested in the truth, just whatever thought or belief feels comfortable in respect to their lives. Though I do not think we should be referred to as primates .

reply to post by Simplynoone


I admire the way you think. It's something I've pondered about. You did help me, but not in the way I was seeking. But, I know you're a caring person. I see that you're trying to help me, and for this, I am thankful.

I've read your post a few times...and there is one problem with it. It's your own interpretation. Let me break this down further...I was discussing this with a friend. Adam and Eve make 2 boys, Cain and Abel, where Cain killed Abel...and was banished from the Garden of Eden to a place called Nod(I think it was Nod...correct me if I'm wrong). Now, in the Bible, it says...and I quote..."And Cain found his wife and he loved her" Or in some versions..."Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and, bare Enoch." I asked...how is it possible that Cain met a woman...when God only made Adam, Eve(who were banished) and they made 2 sons. These are all the people the Bible accounts for. So...where did Cain's wife come from? He said to me...obviously Adam and Eve had more children. I was baffled...because he is someone who takes the Bible literally. He is interjecting his own interpretation into something to make sense of it, because...really...it does not make sense. He was adding info to the Bible directly to make it make more sense.

Now...we get to Abraham and Isaac.

Genasis Chapter 22. Verse 1
And I quote from the KJV; "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am." The word "tempt" was used...while some versions of the Bible use the word test...stay with me here...

Chpt 22: 11-12
"And the angel of the lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
And the angel said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me."

Now, the angel says clearly, on God's behalf, that now God knows Abraham fears God and is loyal to him. This indicates that God did not know where Abraham's heart and loyalty was before this test, correct? This is what the Bible says...these are the words taken from the Bible that you follow. This same Bible states that God knows all. An omnipotent being does indeed know all...in this instance...he did not know all. So, which is it? I'm sorry to say, but it does not make sense. It shows contradictory information and error. A perfect being makes no error...it speaks no error...period, especially if it's never changing. God is supposed to be forever flawless. This is why I am certain that man has corrupted the Bible and it can not be taken as the ultimate truth. It has been tampered with...and, even if it never was tampered with...this cannot be the words of an all-knowing, omnipotent, all-powerful God. Such beings are not subject to such errors. This is why I have a hard time believing in the Christian God...and this is only one of the many reasons.

Your interpretation was honest and I admire that, but it was unnecessary, because the Bible did not leave anything for interpretation. It clearly stated why God tested Abraham. The same is the situation with Job I believe.

But thank you for the sincerity and time.

[edit on 6-9-2008 by sdrawkcabII]

Thank you Sdraw I appreciate that .


Your right it is just the way that I see it ...and I am not even set on that really lol I could change my mind on alot of interpretations of stuff ..mainly because I dont always interpret it correctly either ..I am fallible ...


The question about Cain lol .
I just asked that in BTS myself...I do have some imaginative ideas ..(Go check it out ) ....

I will certainly do my homework on faith this week and maybe we could talk about it some more ..Faith was never something I had to actually look up and study ..because I understand what faith is ..I just dont understand how to tell someone else what it is and how you get it ...etc ...........

Thanks for talking with me and being civil .



I believe that God did know ...... but God doesnt just require lip service he wants to see actions follow it ....... Abraham had to show he would obey God no matter what was asked ..
Giving your own life for God would be one thing ..But your son quite another .Wouldnt you say ?
It was also to show everyone what God would do someday when he gave his only son for all of us .


[edit on 6-9-2008 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by sdrawkcabII


This was a great post... You described how one can turn from theist to atheist very well...

Originally posted by TruthParadox

Originally posted by AshleyD


I can't speak for others, but personaly, I DO want to believe. You have no idea how great it would be for me to be able to say "God did it" instead of contemplating things until my head hurts. You have no idea how great it would be to think that I had an afterlife that would be all peach and cherrys. I believe anyone would WANT to believe in this.



TruthParadox, Thanks for the tranparency here!!!!

I'm believing it WILL happen....

Seek with all your heart...peace is coming my man!

OT

If you think about it, we live with this so called "faith" every day.

ex. we have FAITH that the car won't turn left when we steer right.

You cannot prove God exists, but you can experience his power. how?

You can't possibly look at the good things of this earth and say that a comet did this, or we humans came from apes. A look out at the stars makes everyone question the possibility of a god.

so instead of making a fuss about some people trying to act all smart by proving god, why don't you think a bit more open-minded, and make a fuss about why you can't prove a god exists.

I have been pondering the issue of faith this week ...
I realized that it takes faith to even get up in the morning and start a new day .
We have no CLUE when we will die ...and if we didnt wake up in faith that we would live today ...we would not have a very good day would we ?We would think any minute could be our day to die and that would be very depressing .
Instead we wake up and have faith that at least we will make it through the day.
We also have faith that we will find love someday ...if we didnt have faith about that then possibly we would never find it ..
We have faith that our children will grow up and become the best they can be ..
Everything we do requires faith....we have no way of knowing how anything will turn out ..but we have faith that it will work out dont we ? That is what gets us up in the morning and looking forward to the days events ....
Everyone has faith and everyones faith is what gets them through everyday.

Why is it so difficult then to have faith that there is a GOD and that he loves us and he wants whats best for us ..just like what we think about our own kids...

Originally posted by Simplynoone
I have been pondering the issue of faith this week ...
I realized that it takes faith to even get up in the morning and start a new day .
We have no CLUE when we will die ...and if we didnt wake up in faith that we would live today ...we would not have a very good day would we ?We would think any minute could be our day to die and that would be very depressing .
Instead we wake up and have faith that at least we will make it through the day.
We also have faith that we will find love someday ...if we didnt have faith about that then possibly we would never find it ..
We have faith that our children will grow up and become the best they can be ..
Everything we do requires faith....we have no way of knowing how anything will turn out ..but we have faith that it will work out dont we ? That is what gets us up in the morning and looking forward to the days events ....
Everyone has faith and everyones faith is what gets them through everyday.

Why is it so difficult then to have faith that there is a GOD and that he loves us and he wants whats best for us ..just like what we think about our own kids...

This was so well said, that I find it hard to comment on the subject. One does not "prove God", one has "faith in God". God needs no proof. Only those who don't believe require proof, and because of that one thing they cannot understand God. But be that as it may, all one has to do is look around you and the evidence for God is always there to see, hear, and experience.

reply to post by sdrawkcabII


Hi sdrawkcabII,

I would agree 101% with your statement below:

Quote your writing:-

"Now, the angel says clearly, on God's behalf, that now God knows Abraham fears God and is loyal to him. This indicates that God did not know where Abraham's heart and loyalty was before this test, correct? This is what the Bible says...these are the words taken from the Bible that you follow. This same Bible states that God knows all. An omnipotent being does indeed know all...in this instance...he did not know all. So, which is it? I'm sorry to say, but it does not make sense. It shows contradictory information and error. A perfect being makes no error...it speaks no error...period, especially if it's never changing. God is supposed to be forever flawless. This is why I am certain that man has corrupted the Bible and it can not be taken as the ultimate truth. It has been tampered with...and, even if it never was tampered with...this cannot be the words of an all-knowing, omnipotent, all-powerful God. Such beings are not subject to such errors. This is why I have a hard time believing in the Christian God...and this is only one of the many reasons."

This is excellent work but Don't give up on a Christian God as you have Found a Roman god.

Jesus said that the Wicked one would come and deceive the Whole Earth...

And This Has Happened.... It is History now....

The Wicked one is The Rebellious one or The Human Primate....

Keep searching, as I know you desire to know The Truth...

You won't find it in religion as religion is part of state politics....

In the Roman Government at the Top are those in Power, then under them, The Court system and The so called "Holy Roman Church" then the armed forces then the civil servants then us surfs....

Hmmmmm The Holy Roman Empire I wonder indeed...

But if you keep searching I can guarantee you shall find what you are looking for and when you find it You shall become deeply troubled, yes very, very, troubled indeed and when you do, You shall become amazed and when you become amazed, You shall rule over the All.



[edit on 28-9-2008 by The Matrix Traveller]

[edit on 28-9-2008 by The Matrix Traveller]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Why is it so difficult then to have faith that there is a GOD and that he loves us and he wants whats best for us ..just like what we think about our own kids...

Because I can't force my mind to ignore the inconsistencies and the contradictions in the Bible and in the idea of God.

Why do you not simply have faith in Buddha?
Why do you not simply have faith in Zeus?

You have your reasons for the above questions just as an atheist has his/her reasons for not believing in God.

Originally posted by Fromabove
This was so well said, that I find it hard to comment on the subject. One does not "prove God", one has "faith in God". God needs no proof. Only those who don't believe require proof, and because of that one thing they cannot understand God. But be that as it may, all one has to do is look around you and the evidence for God is always there to see, hear, and experience.

So, essentially, that means one is supposed to believe in God because an ancient book of highly questionable veracity claims he exists, and no evidence is necessary to evaluate any of this.

What makes people think having faith is a good thing?

But does anyone really know what the Word God is meant to identify as the ancient understanding was totally different than today...

One must remember that the so called Holy Roman Church is a Government department of The old Roman Empire...

Directly under those in power in the Roman Empire was both the Courts and The Roman Church.

The other fact is that The Roman Church is Not mentioned anywhere in the bible... Nor is any other Church in the original Greek Text.

The assemblies of Light was dropped by the Roman Church and was replaced by their own word Church which is totally corrupt...

It is Human Primates, that assume, God is what they want God to be, and Not what God is or what The Word God means.

Primates have No consideration at all For Life or The True Mind...

Most are talking about The Mind of God and Not God....

God is two Components.....

1. The Word G O D
2. Life which is The Light of Man or Phos in Greek meaning Sun Light or
any other Light... Phos in Greek does Not mean Understanding or
making Light of Something.




[edit on 29-9-2008 by The Matrix Traveller]

There is an extremely interesting book written by author Lee Strobel called "The Case For Faith." I suggest that the book be read...I myself am a Christian and found that this book strengthened my faith, through evidence and explanation by people who are alot smarter than me, and alot smarter than most anyone on this thread I'm assuming. Im not saying it will radically change your life or change your mind, but maybe it will?? You never know til you try eh? Let's hear what you guys think about the book?

There are many things in life, that if one does not take the time to listen, they will not hear. If one does not take the time to look, they will not see.

If you do not take the journey, you will have not traveled, and should you not knock, the door will not open.

Peace

reply to post by HIFIGUY


Hi HIFIGUY[,

No truer Words have ever been Written or Spoken!!!!

I would agree 101% with your statement....

what a load of rubbish. if something cannot be proven it is not true! Get it????????