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The war on scientists in America

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posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 09:40 AM
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The war on scientists in America


www.sfgate.com

Imagine if a group of rabid creationists started fire-bombing the homes of University of California professors to prevent them from teaching evolution. Area politicians would be holding competing press conferences to assure the public that they would take on the violent zealots, who have declared war, not only on good academics and their families, but on science itself.

(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 09:40 AM
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Thereare those who will say that this is right. To those, I say you are wrong!
This is not the way to work towards your goals in this society. Its counterproductive and illegal. Tactics like these are going to get people killed on both sides. In some states its perfectly legal to shoot someone who is trying to commit arson. Children are being harrased and terrified. It has to stop!!
Zindo

www.sfgate.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 10:04 AM
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I guess nobody cares about arson as long as its not you being burnt out by zealots. Oh, well.


Zindo



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by ZindoDoone
I guess nobody cares about arson as long as its not you being burnt out by zealots. Oh, well.


Zindo, I'm sympathetic to the feelings you expressed, and yet I have to say you look silly expressing a dissapointment when people didn't join you in your frustration.



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 10:15 AM
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Naw, just way too much coffee this morning and no patience. Sorry!!

Zindo



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by ZindoDoone
 


Well, you are right. That IS wrong.
As a creationist, the means to an end is EDUCATION!
If Universities are teaching something wrong or willfully accepting erroneous data as FACT, the best thing we can do is EDUCATE people.

The lies in evolutionary science are REAL. The forged archaeopteryx, Haekel's embryo evolution chart (showing humans going through various animal stages.)
Lucy being anything BUT an ape.
It is aggravating that children who are Christian go to college and are verbally ABUSED by atheist professors, because they believe in God!
But, hating, killing and threatening people is evil.....

NO matter WHO does it.

[edit on 6-8-2008 by Clearskies]



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 10:30 AM
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The OP's article is about animal rights activists.

Although it's not reported much (the media likes to focus on 'foreign' terrorists), the majority of the FBI's investigations into domestic terrorism involve animal and environmental rights groups. From an FBI report on terrorism in the USA, 2002-2005:


Twenty three of the 24 recorded terrorist incidents were perpetrated by domestic terrorists. With the exception of white supremacist Sean Michael Gillespie’s firebombing of a synagogue in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, all of the domestic terrorist incidents were committed by special interest extremists active in the animal rights and environmental movements. The acts committed by these extremists typically targeted materials and facilities rather than persons.


Edit to add: Despite the FBI's statement that these acts 'typically targeted materials and facilities rather than persons', please read the OP's article for indication that these attacks may sometimes be more 'personal'.


[edit on 6-8-2008 by Ian McLean]



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 10:44 AM
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The reason why you aren't getting the response you wanted is because this form of domestic terrorism is highly condoned and promoted on this forum. I've read starred posts here condoning assassinations of certain political persons and violent uprisings against the US government. People love violence when it is perpetrated against their perceived "enemies", and committed by their perceived "friends".

[edit on 8/6/08 by CO Vet]



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 10:52 AM
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reply to post by ZindoDoone
 


I care

it's just difficult for me to care responsibly before the caffeine soaks in

I'm with you on this - adding in that wrong is wrong - regardless

and though I absolutely agree with you - I can't just see it as situation that affects scientists - it's about abuse and tyranny

I am definitely in the animal rights camp - that's a complicated discussion there I know

but - there are better ways to achieve our goals

the psychology behind this - I can see that some people view their actions as being acceptable - in the context of "the greater good"

for instance - setting fire to an environment to protest the development of that environment

but it isn't rational - it's an ego based solution

a "suck on this" solution

the following quote from the article you linked -



"These are people who want to do violence and they cloak themselves in this kind of moral stance," Chemers told me. Though unfamiliar with the animal rights movement, Chemers, a social psychologist, nailed it. This is not a movement interested in the welfare and humane treatment of laboratory animals. It is an anarchistic, misanthropic cult.


I think that's getting pretty close to the truth - or it zeros in on a part of the truth at least

it seems some people can conveniently remove themselves from the actual cause and move into something else - the cause is just a vehicle for their special needs

in any form of terrorism - I always wonder if an overwhelming feeling of righteousness works on people like some kind of drug - provides a kind of euphoria

it eclipses everything else

there's a reward system in place - from your group - from yourself - a need to belong and feel powerful - who knows how much else is going on besides what they claim

animal rights abuses - I can't even go there - I feel so strongly about this - so to a great extent - I can empathize with these groups

except that I'm a pacifist - and wrong is wrong

killing people, threatening their lives, their families, their homes - it solves nothing - they just contribute to the horror



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by CO Vet
People love violence when it is perpetrated against their perceived "enemies", and committed by their perceived "friends".


Speak for yourself -- I don't think you speak for most members of this forum. The fact that there's a constant media drumbeat presuming a distinction between 'righteous' violence and 'evil' violence does not indicate that the majority of intelligent Americans actually feel that way. As to ATS members, I would actually venture to guess that far more of them see such distinction as deceptive and illusory, compared to the general public.

As for certain posts being starred, I think that's more an indication of empathy with the emotion of despair that's often expressed, when looking for effective solutions to political corruption, etc., rather than endorsement or advocacy of illegal acts.



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 


Don't get me wrong here. Animal abuse is not anything that should be condoned. But zealots in any form make any discourse impossible. I've seen first hand the violence Peta and a few of the others have wrought. I watched Jackson Labs in Bangor, Me. first be broken nto and the mice let loose. Some with very dangerous comunicable diseaeses. and Then a few years later be torched. This is so wrong on so many levels and our Feebees had better get off they're duff and do something about it. The manner in which these groups finance the wrongdoers is criminal. When your a full time violent activist with no ties and no viable way to pay for transportation to and from acts of violence or your everyday expenses, Its not that big of a stretch to see that monied activists are paying these folks to do they're bidding.

Zindo



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 11:43 AM
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no - I absolutely knew that's not where you were coming from - didn't think that at all

and you're right on target I think with this - the scientists - it's open season

I can also see the creationists side - seems science may be in a position to avenge Galileo (among others) these days

it goes round and round...

I see everyone's point - it makes me a tiresome and irritating person to be around

the only thing I have that keeps me centered at all is - wrong is wrong

but even that is debatable :-)




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