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How To Create Evil.

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posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 09:19 PM
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If sin didn't exist before Satan's fall,then where did it come from??

How was Satan tempted to rebel against God if sin didn't exist??

If evil isn't God's creation,then how did the Devil create it??


I've been pondering these questions myself and would be interested in people's opinions and points of view.



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 10:11 PM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


To me if Satan does indeed exist, then I would presume he is the essence of sin or evil; the antithesis of G/god. So if Satan's essence is sin, then in my opinion, it was just a matter of time before rebellion occured and transmitting sin or evil to mankind. Existentially speaking, good cannot exist without evil. Contradictions can be seen such as Satan and G/god being separate beings, which is based on the logic that two infinities cannot co-exist without being or at least converging to the same infinity. Perhaps that is the very reason why I am currently skeptical of how this particular religion is being portrayed in society. If human minds are limited to the point of never fully understanding infinities, then maybe what I previously said is for naught. Anyway, that is all I can muster right now. Good luck.


[edit on 5-8-2008 by Unlimitedpossibilities]



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 11:11 PM
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If evil didn't exist then how could one differentiate between good and bad? One cannot exist without the other, in my opinion. I ask the same questions as you. On the other hand, what if neither existed? Where would we be?



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 01:33 AM
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evil is a lack of love.

lets say god creates light. paradoxically, the concept of darkness (lack of light) is also created

if that light turns off, or dims, then it gets more dark.

but darkness is not the opposite, its a lack of.

heat and cold is along the same lines. we have an absolute 0 degree, this is were no energy is being used (lack of heat). but he have no limit to how hot something can get.

cold is not the opposite of heat, its the lack of heat.

satan was created with love like every other creation of god. and like every other creation of god, he had free will. when he decided he wanted to do things independantly of god, he let his love cool off.

naturally what happens in a state of nonlove is evil



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 01:48 AM
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Originally posted by miriam0566
evil is a lack of love.


what if someone who loved himself, destroyed something that meant the world to you?

what if someone who loved his own prospective "philosophy" so much, that in order to achieve his higher goals, intruded upon your belief system so harshly that you were left desolate, alone, cold, and abandoned...

this is something I've been pondering recently as well.

what IS "good" .. what IS "evil" .. the base population will tell you a fairy tale.
deeper thinkers will go into depths of this perplexity.. that will lead to unending discussion.


-



[edit on 6-8-2008 by prevenge]



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 01:49 AM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


Well put miriam!

Let's say evil is an actual thing, and not simply the lack of good, or love. Hypothetically. If God created us to have free will, he would obviously have to create opposites so we could effectively choose.

If God created free will in humans, and only created Goodness, wouldn't that make him hypocritical for not giving us an alternative to good?

I'm more inclined to agree with miriam to an extent, but both are possibilities.



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 02:03 AM
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Originally posted by prevenge

what if someone who loved himself, destroyed something that meant the world to you?

what if someone who loved how own prospective "philosophy" so much, that in order to achieve his higher goals, intruded upon your belief system so harshly that you were left desolate, alone, cold, and abandoned...



then he has love for himself, but lacks love for you.

jesus touched on this when talking about loving your neighbor

matt 5:[44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
[45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
[46] For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
[47] And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

if you have love, you will not act in an evil way even to your enemy



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 02:13 AM
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if you have love, you will not act in an evil way even to your enemy


Let's presume you love two people equally, like a brother and a sister. If someone points a gun to each of your siblings heads, and tells you to choose who lives and who dies, or you all three die, do you choose?

If you choose, would that be considered an act of evil on your behalf, even though it would be logical that all three of you shouldn't die? If you didn't choose, you are condemning the three of you to death; if you do, you are only condemning one. Both choices could be considered an act of evil, even though you love both siblings, and possibly even the gunman, equally.



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 02:35 AM
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People do evil things for a number of different reasons. It's not just because of lack of love. Parent who love their children can still cause evil to them, Patriots who love their country can help destroy it. Sometimes love can destroy a person.
Evil is about as hard to define as "Good" is. While there are some things that are definelty one or the other, some things start blurring the line.
And as for the essence of Satan being evil... Satan was an angel first. He decided he was better than God, and was cast out. So, he's still an angel, he wasn't changed. That was only in Milton's work.
Satan was to prideful, and gave into temptation. Maye that's why he's supposed to be so good at it.



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 02:44 AM
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Originally posted by Alexander_Supertramp
Both choices could be considered an act of evil, even though you love both siblings, and possibly even the gunman, equally.


remember, your not the one with the gun. the one with the gun is ultimately the murderer and the one lacking love.

any decisions you make (if you have love) would be the choice you feel is for the greater good. in essence, its as much love as you can show within the confines of your limitations (choice or nonchoice)

if the other too have love, they will understand that whatever decision you make, would inevitably lead to one or more persons dying. they would understand the difficult situation you are in.

again. evil is a lack of love. and in this particular example is manifest in the man with the gun, not you.



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 02:46 AM
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Originally posted by RuneSpider
Parent who love their children can still cause evil to them,


are you referring to disciplining them? im not sure what you mean.



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 02:56 AM
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Defining Good and Evil is about as easy as trying to get your pet dog to understand infinity.

On a more serious note, goodness is completely subjective. No two people will agree on every situation as being ultimately good or evil. The best we can do is abide by our own terms and not judge others because they have differing opinions.



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 03:13 AM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


No, in the name of love parents have attemtped to squash a childs individuality, beat them (which is different from discipline. A belt is one thing, a belt's another), manipulate them, kill them, alll in the name of love. And that's just the stuff you can find in your average paper. People do worse to their kids in the name of love,



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 03:30 AM
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goodness is completely subjective. No two people will agree on every situation as being ultimately good or evil. The best we can do is abide by our own terms and not judge others because they have differing opinions.


however, it should be noted that everyone cant tell when someone is be un-loving. while yes, the lines may be fuzzy, but we do have this inborn ability to tell the difference.


Originally posted by RuneSpider
No, in the name of love parents have attemtped to squash a childs individuality, beat them (which is different from discipline. A belt is one thing, a belt's another), manipulate them, kill them, alll in the name of love. And that's just the stuff you can find in your average paper. People do worse to their kids in the name of love,


just because someone does something in the name of love, doesnt mean it IS love.



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 03:40 AM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


In the name of love ofr my country, love of the principles it was founded on, apple pie, and my dear old mum I could try to lead a revolt against Washington, that would probably end with death, strict laws based on our behaviour, and over all a darker taint to the country, because I love it.
People do things in the name of, and because of love that defy reason, and sometimes without thinking of the consequences.
To little water, sure and the plant withers, to much though and the plant drowns.
I love Mary Anne, so does Billy. we try to please her to the best of our ability, to choose one over the other and it leads to a brawl. Billy gets his arm broken, Billy goes off to nurse his wounded body and pride, and probaby leaves with a deep resentment from there on. I end up with Mary Anne for years, maybe forever. Name of love, good and bad happens. Itt's not the end all answer.



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 04:06 AM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


I can tell you the myth that I was taught.
There were two covering cherubs of the throne of God, in heaven.
One was Jesus and one was Lucifer.
When God created the world, God proclaimed that all the beings of the universe should acknowledge Jesus as higher than all creation because he was not a created being.
Jesus was the actual son of God.
Lucifer did not see how Jesus was any better than him and decided he should be a god, himself, if Jesus was.
So, Lucifer went about presenting his case to all the inhabitants of creation to get them to go over to his side.
Once he had a loyal following, he commenced throwing all kinds of accusations against God.
His prized victory over God would be to get the center piece of God's creation to follow him.
That was the two people living in the Garden that God had made with his own hands.
Like I said, this is the myth and it seems to explain a lot about evil and where it comes from.
I do not see a whole lot in the Bible to support it that is not purely symbolic.



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 04:13 AM
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God created Lucifer, and knows exactly what Lucifer will do in the future. So therefore God created sin. Maybe God uses sin to test his creations to see how good they are. God's best creation was Lucifer, but even that wasn't perfect.

For all we know, the story about Satan falling from grace could very well be made up by someone. Trying to understand the logic of this story can be like trying to figure out why the tooth fairy wanted to build a tooth castle.



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 04:34 AM
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If we are Christians and believe the Bible, we are confronted with this story about Jesus being tempted in the wilderness.
I says the devil and the tempter.
It treats, or seems to treat this thing as an actual entity.
So, we have to accept it as a fact that someone or something is out there with a job of tempting people.

1 Thessalonians 3:5
For this reason, when I could endure it no longer, I also sent to find out about your faith, for fear that the tempter might have tempted you, and our labor would be in vain.

We have one case with Jesus as the Temptee and another case of a whole city of believers being tempted.
These are big cases that would warrant the attention of this entity.
We as ordinary individuals may not be getting constant attention from him/it.


[edit on 6-8-2008 by jmdewey60]



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 07:33 AM
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miriam0566



evil is a lack of love.


Is it?

God loved humans yet he destroyed all life in a flood.
God had/has great love for Israel yet he punishes when they turn their backs.(the extent of these punishments can be considered evil.)

Reinhard Heydrich (top ranking SS officer) loved his wife and children yet he still condemned millions of people to die in concentration camps.(and he wasn't the only one.)

Myra Hindley loved her family and friends,yet she murdered children with her boyfriend Ian Brady.

The list is endless.

Its also about perception.

Attila the Hun-Scourge of God to the Romans,national hero to his own people.(the same can be said for every conqueror.)

I believe its also a fair assumption to say that more violence is done in the name of love than in the name of evil.


Also evil can not be a lack of love because it is not loves opposite.The opposite of evil is good.The opposite of love is hate,and hate isn't always evil.For example;hating someone who is abusing you is not evil,its a natural human reaction.And love isn't always pure,it can make some people jealous etc.




Alexander_Supertramp




Defining Good and Evil is about as easy as trying to get your pet dog to understand infinity.



True.

But i'm looking for answers as to how the Devil created evil.(seen as many Christians like to ignore all the Bible verses that show it came from God.which doesn't make God evil btw.)

How can a being of pure light,who knows nothing of evil and corruption,suddenly create this emmence and destructive force,out of nothing??






[edit on 6-8-2008 by jakyll]



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by jakyll
 



How can a being of pure light,who knows nothing of evil and corruption,suddenly create this emmence and destructive force,out of nothing??

If you want to use the analogy of the name Lucifer, look at what it means, as a word.
The morning star or day star are alternative translations for what we have as where the word Lucifer comes from.
These are names used for the planet Venus.
The planet does not produce its own light but reflects light coming from the sun.
If Lucifer was a covering cherub, he would have been reflecting light coming from the presence of God.
I can even imagine Lucifer having a role of actually absorbing some of that light in order for others to be able to better tolerate being in the vicinity of God.
What is this tree in the midst of the Garden that God warned Adam against eating?
Could Eden have been a special annex of Heaven, for the growing of fruit trees?
Why would God plant such a thing, a tree of the knowledge of good and evil?
Apparently it was not for the use of man.
That leaves the angels but why would angels need to know about good and evil?
Angels are the servants of God and know nothing except obedience.
Man was created with free will and that left open the possibility of sin entering the world.
If sin took hold on man, how would the angels deal with it, having no concept of evil?
Conveniently, there is a tree of that knowledge, right in the middle of the garden where man lived.
Lucifer could have been looking for something to give him the edge in his popularity competition with the Son of God.
He may have allowed this word “Knowledge” to run in his mind until he finally gave that thought enough power to finally cause him to act on it.
This knowledge is something better left alone, if possible.
The knowledge in itself is not necessarily destructive to the recipient but if the purpose for obtaining that knowledge is different from its intended use, it easily could be destructive.
Angels are not made like man and it would have taken a very long time to get to a really bad condition because it would have had to fight against a hard-wired mind dedicated to serving God.
That same knowledge, only intended for angels dedicated to fighting evil, to the Human mind was devastating and immediately turned them to evil behavior.
Only in man can evil have its full potential realized.
Satan looks on in wonder at the depths of depravity that man is capable of and can only wish that he could be so evil.
Satan was able to survive his dose of knowledge and does not die of natural causes, so he has had a lot of time to hone his skills in manipulating men to works of evil and time to hate men, more and more.


[edit on 6-8-2008 by jmdewey60]







 
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