'Please kill me,' pleads man accused in beheading murder

Stev, I am sorry, but its because of people like yourself our justice system is all screwed up. Pandering to criminals, attempting to find any loophole to find pity for him. Murder is a crime. You can be insane, but the fact is he still committed a crime. One of the top no no's of crime for that matter.

It just bothers me most that those that defend them will do so until they or their family becomes the victim. Then you'll take it personally no doubt.

double post

[edit on 8/6/2008 by DYepes]

reply to post by TheStev

This is one of the most terrifying things I've read in a long time. Innocent until proven guilty man, not innocent until it guilt seems pretty obvious.

What more proof would you need than 36 witnesss and his own admission?!?!?
I admit I may be reading into things, but as I said previously, the prior bus trips for no apparent reason tells me that it was a planned thing and this was either his first opportunity or the first time he got the ‘courage’ to go through with it.

I sure as hell don't believe that a bunch of people speculating on a forum have that right.

No. we have no right to make this decision, but we do have the right to voice our opinions as well as vent. At first I was tending towards sympathy for the guy, but if the story is correct and he had been urged many times by several people to get psychological help and he refused then he only has himself to blame. I know some people with various disorders do not accept the fact, but if he had previously been treated and even institutionalized he would have to know something was wrong.

Wow, I guess you really see it that way. Let me ask this, cause it seems this way:

Do you honestly believe that anyone who kills someone else should be treated the same way no matter what the circumstance?

I know some people with various disorders do not accept the fact, but if he had previously been treated and even institutionalized he would have to know something was wrong.

I don't think you understand mental illness. It primarily affects your perception and in particular your self perception. The way these illnesses work, there are many people who are very sick but don't believe for a second that they are - even after treatment.

But that doesn't make them any less sick.

What worries me is people calling for his death without a clear reason for it. It's one thing to call for someone to be killed, but be clear about why you're doing it. Are you killing him because he is a threat to others? Because he is sick and should be put out of his misery? To save money trying to rehabilitate? To enact justice?

And if you're saying 'all of the above', then every single institutionalised person with any kind of violent tendencies should be killed. Anyone who is unhappy or sick should be killed. Anyone who is a drain on the system should be killed.

I know I'm speaking generally and y'all are talking specifics, but you're talking policy and policy is general. Because if you're saying 'this particular guy needs to be killed', then you're not talking mercy or justice, you're talking like a murderer.

[edit on 6-8-2008 by TheStev]

reply to post by DYepes


"Just make sure this guy does never escape into the States ok? our officers will most likely shoot him as he resists arrest with his hands in the air."

I'm not trying to fight with anyone, i understand where you are coming from. You know actually the Police as a last resort would shoot. They are trained in Psychology too in varying degrees.

Once he brandished a - the knife though it would be over sick or not...

I believe tasers would have subdued this person, enough of them. It would have snapped him out of his "act"...









[edit on 8/6/2008 by Brainiac]

The way I see some of the act, I am not so sure.
Last year when they found the man in the woods that killed one of their agents in Central florida, he had so many bulletholes in him, that it was clear one or more officers had reloaded their gun and emptied it again. A bit of overkill, but the man did kill an officer of the law, and although I dont approve of how many times they shot him (obviously they were quite angry), at least I know that murderer is not sitting cozy sucking down our tax money.

In any case, this man is a threat to society and others and has proven it with this crime. The most logical course of action to save the resources of the state and to fulfill the wishes of a suffering individual is to dispatch him. there is no precedent here.

I suppose you will just give him a hug, tell him everything is ok, and then give him a stamp of approval for re-integration if he is able to walk and talk normal in six months so long as he is fully doped up on hundreds of dollars of medication every week, eh?



[edit on 8/6/2008 by DYepes]

There are some semantic issues here which I'm sure can be used to say that I'm speaking about criminals, but I'm not.

My compassion, my 'pandering', my pity is for the mentally ill. Now if someone who is mentally ill commits a crime, they become a criminal. I get that. And while I am principally opposed to the death penalty, that is not the issue for me here. The issue is that he is not of sound mind.

To me, there is no person weaker, no person more vulnerable than someone who is incapable of perceiving the world and interacting with the world in the same way as the rest of us. Those people, as I see it, deserve more defense than 'normal' fully functioning people.

reply to post by DYepes


"It just bothers me most that those that defend them will do so until they or their family becomes the victim. Then you'll take it personally no doubt."

-Well not entirely acurate, in this case the victim did not know the attacker, so it is less personal and more confusing, his family just wants to understand why.

-This is different than someone you know and had a bitter and long lasting rivalry with, this was totally random. You could even see this as some natural even such as an accident or bridge collapse, flood, ecetera.

-I can't get deeply into this without sounding cold, but I can almost assuredly tell you that this is totally different from murder. Killed and Murdered are different. I would liken this to being attacked by a bear or some animal in a den, than an actually person acting out some pre-meditated act of violence...

-This was a Re-action to environmental and mental frailties...

Originally posted by Dulcimer
Actual Greyhound advertisement.

a123.g.akamai.net...

I guessed it was only a matter of time....

Greyhound Canada said Tuesday that it is in the process of pulling a series of ads in an extensive, cross-country campaign featuring the slogan, "There's a reason you've never heard of bus rage."

Greyhound pulls 'bus rage' ads

It seems like people may not agree with this view, but I assure you that all people suffering mental illness are victims of this sickness. That doesn't absolve them of responsibility, and I'm not saying it does. But we need to remember that these people are victims.

reply to post by TheStev


"To me, there is no person weaker, no person more vulnerable than someone who is incapable of perceiving the world and interacting with the world in the same way as the rest of us. Those people, as I see it, deserve more defense than 'normal' fully functioning people."

-All Doctors understand this. You are exactly right. Although it is going to be hard to convince people of that, because of the intensity of the incident... It was so abominable most people won't see past the incident...
Which I also fully comprehend...

-Now imagine having to serve on this jury. I really think this needs to go straight to a decision by doctors, this is probably one of the most difficult matters for a jury of untrained people to have to endure...








[edit on 8/6/2008 by Brainiac]

Originally posted by TheStev
It seems like people may not agree with this view, but I assure you that all people suffering mental illness are victims of this sickness. That doesn't absolve them of responsibility, and I'm not saying it does. But we need to remember that these people are victims.

There are plenty of ppl walking around w/ the same supposed mental "handicap" and even worse than what is being claimed this guy has and they have never harmed anyone. BS FLAG IS GOING UP!!! Victim my arse.

Are the ppl saying that he is the victim on brain numbing meds or something?? I am not getting that he is the victim!! *boo flippin hoo* the guy has mental problems.......... nothing a bullet in the head won't cure!

[edit on 6-8-2008 by justamomma]

reply to post by Brainiac

I only care about the victim. People spend too much time trying to figure out what leads people to commit these crazy crimes and the focus should be on the victim and nothing else as far as i'm concerned. I'm sure some genius will blame it on Prozac or something- i'm sick of the excuses.

How has 'a victim' become 'the victim'. I don't deny for a moment that the person who was killed was a victim. There can be two you know!

And it may come as news to you, but all mental illnesses present differently. In fact, the same mental illness presents differently in different people. So to say 'there are people out there who are mentally ill who haven't killed people, so anyone mentally ill who does kill someone is obviously pure evil' is incredibly close-minded.

I know you didn't say 'pure evil', I'm exaggerating to make a point.

What I find funny is that all these people requesting that this guy be tortured and/or killed don't realize that by suggesting such things they are only acting like they want to become his equal. I can understand why people are upset, this was indeed a terrible crime. To me that means it is more important that instead of calling for this mans murder we should be treating and studying his illness.

He is clearly not mentally fit. If all we ever do is kill people like him we will never be able to prevent future tragedies. However, if we choose to act accordingly and with dignity we will be able to further our knowledge of mental disorders. This will equip us with better means of diagnosing these disorders and with proper treatment hopefully we will be able to help these people live normal lives. Lives that don't involve killing or hurting other people. I'll take a win win situation over a lose lose any day.

All the sudden unexplained bus trips to different city's.
Tells me he was going to see people and talk to people, that don't exist.
Or he was going to see people and talk to people, that did exist.
And what they were doing to him, was so bad, he thought the easiest way to get out of it was to do something so heinous that he would get shot and killed.
I bet he thought he wouldn't make it off the bus, is why he was taunting them with the head etc hoping he would get sniped.
Some people want to die more, than we want to be rich, yet completely lack the ability to do it themselves.
If only he had done it in Texas he would have got his wish.

Originally posted by TheStevI know you didn't say 'pure evil', I'm exaggerating to make a point.

Well, I'll say it now so there will be no mistaking it. The man that hacked into the body of that kid and put pieces of the kid's body in his mouth and proceeded in chewing up those pieces is PURE EVIL!! Mark it down, take notes, whatever.

That is sick. Yes that guy IS SICK!! and there is only one cure that would be justice for THE actual victim.

I'll accept the close minded accusation bc in this case, I am close minded. Bring the sicko to the post and commence in firing the gun.

Originally posted by DYepes
I will say this, if this man had done this on the bus I was on, I would not have run like a coward and watch this innocent person die. I do carry a knife on me sometimes, and can fight a good fight.

And if it turns out that you didn't actually see 'a man doing this'. If it turned out the man was just sitting quietly, minding his own business, and your mental illness had caused you to perceive him as a threat. If your mental illness cause you to 'see' him attacking someone else, even if he wasn't.

In that case, you would be happy for us to kill you?

Originally posted by dgtempe
reply to post by Brainiac

 

I only care about the victim. People spend too much time trying to figure out what leads people to commit these crazy crimes and the focus should be on the victim and nothing else as far as i'm concerned. I'm sure some genius will blame it on Prozac or something- i'm sick of the excuses.

-Well that's why people want to study and question him, having him alive serves more as a way to understand what makes him tick... So other people might be prevented from taking the path he took. Better for the Would be Victim, and better for him...

-Now he also has a lot of history behind him, being 40 and from China originally it comes into question his life up until this point... Which I'm sure everyone is dying 'no pun intended' to examine...

[edit on 8/6/2008 by Brainiac]

I have been thinking more about this and the torture people wish to be inflicted on Mr. Li. If it is his wish to die then he is obviously very tortured within himself. Either by the act and / or his illness in general. If you want to see him really tortured, let him live and dwell on what he has done.
Stev,
I know you are not keen on killing the man, but how would you feel about this alternative? I know which I would rather.
So you know I have known people with schizophrenia and one of them, a good friend, killed himself only meters away from me without me even knowing. I now he was disturbed and was tortured every day. When I found him, he had a smile on his face which is something I hadn’t seen for a long time. I was actually relived for him that he was in peace.