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Scientist Kills himself as Feds File Anthrax charges

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posted on Aug, 3 2008 @ 10:50 AM
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reply to post by WyrdeOne
 


Yes I agree completely. Just like 9/11 the incompetence end of the spectrum of possible scenarios is overlooked or given a pass. But Jesus Christ do they even realize what they are printing!!!! An acknowledged nut working with some of the most dangerous weapons in the world. Just exactly what are your screening criteria for security clearances??


In another article I read it was rumored that Ivins Wiki page appeared A DAY BEFORE his suicide. Very suspicious eh. Does anyone know how to check dates on Wiki??

Another article published by the LA Times suggested he stood to gain from royalties on the vaccination. However under closer scrutiny that turns out not to be true but the headline is classic disinfo giving the appearance of motive.

[edit on 3-8-2008 by Leo Strauss]



posted on Aug, 3 2008 @ 10:52 AM
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Five months til they're gone (hopefully) and the neocons want to "close" this episode.

This guy was the patsy...he probably made the stuff for the "feds" who then used it and then he dies.

end of story?

s



posted on Aug, 3 2008 @ 12:40 PM
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This story is getting hotter with numerous sub columns all over the papers all questioning the integrity of the FBI's "Official Story"

We have highly questionable testimony from an alleged "theripist" claiming
a top level Bio-Weapons scientist with Ultra Top Security Clearance
spilled his guts in a county operated groop theripy seshin.

Anyone capable of critical thinking can see that the "Official Story" is a classic disinformation campaign.

If we believe for one second that these allegations are not coming from a disinfo plant,
then how does our government explain that someone with such a dangerous mental
health history was capable of obtaining or keeping any kind of security clearance.

From what I've read, there's every indication that the phones will be ringing off the hooks
Monday morning at the House and Senate Judiciary Committees demanding a full scale
open investigation.

July 25, 2008, The House Judiciary Committee was looking for sufficient "probable cause"
to launch an impeachment inquiry.

One week later we hear the DOJ Inspector General's report on the politicization of the JUST US
department.

We also learn from a federal judge that Miers, Bolten and Rove will not be protected under blanket Executive Privilege immunity.

Even with the clock running out, the American people have had it!

The Cowboys from Crawford may be circling their wagons, but this September looks to be very interesting, to say the least.



posted on Aug, 3 2008 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by Leo Strauss
reply to post by WyrdeOne
 

In another article I read it was rumored that Ivins Wiki page appeared A DAY BEFORE his suicide. Very suspicious eh. Does anyone know how to check dates on Wiki??


Seems untrue. The page was started August 1st at 6:58am EST (I think EST) It is interesting to look at the sequence of edits and who edited it when and from where.
*edit* For reference this thread was started August 1 around 4amEST


[edit on 3-8-2008 by beaverg]



posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 01:21 AM
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I haven't posted in quite awhile but thought I'd post this interesting article from a colleague in our local paper.

Ivins colleague rejects therapist’s description
Originally published August 04, 2008


By Marge Neal
News-Post Staff

While counselor Jean Duley said the late Bruce E. Ivins expressed homicidal intentions, threatened her and said he "would go out in a blaze of glory" in the face of a pending FBI indictment, as least one former colleague believes the Fort Detrick scientist is being used as a scapegoat in the high profile anthrax poisoning case that paralyzed the nation -- again -- shortly after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
Arthur O. Anderson, a medical doctor and scientist at the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Disease at Fort Detrick, said Duley's description of Ivins doesn't match his impressions of a man with whom he worked for many years.

Ivins, who was about to be indicted by the FBI in the anthrax mailings that killed five people and injured 17 others, was described by Anderson as a hard-working individual with a high level of integrity and pride in both his workplace and his individual work.

The only perceived weakness that Anderson could discern, and not all people would consider it a weakness, he said, was that Ivins "had relatively thin skin."

"His personality style was such that he was sensitive to public opinion," Anderson said Sunday. "There are individuals in our community whose lives are centered around protesting government programs. They're not necessarily interested in facts, but pushing an agenda."

Ivins would take it personally when seemingly unfounded criticism was aimed at something he believed in, Anderson said.

"He was concerned with how the Institute was perceived and how he was perceived," Anderson said. "That manifested itself in the care he took in conducting his research."

As a health care professional and bioethicist -- he heads USAMRIID's Office of Human Use and Ethics -- Anderson said he takes issue with what he views as Duley's professional betrayal of Ivins.

"I can tell you very clearly that the minute a conflict of interest occurs in the caregiver-client relationship É she has to withdraw as the caregiver," he said. "She can't ethically continue to gather information or share information -- betray that trust -- without disclosing to her client that she is sharing what he believes is confidential, privileged information."

Anderson said that if he was to betray a patient's trust in such a manner, he would be subject to medical disciplinary procedures.

In commenting about remarks made by Duley when she applied to the District Court of Maryland for a Peace Order, Anderson said he was amazed that a judge would allow hearsay to be entered on the record.

Duley referred to comments allegedly made by Ivins' psychiatrist about Ivins' homicidal and sociopathic tendencies, without confirmation to the court that the doctor actually made the comments.

"The remaining allegations about murderous ideas and plans sound so foreign to me that in the absence of contemporaneously documented evidence I would have to consider them items of Ms. Duley's vivid imagination or information fed to her by the people she communicated with outside the therapeutic environment," Anderson wrote in an e-mail to the News-Post. "It is not at all surprising to me that a patient whose therapist is serving as a double agent 'therapist' and 'accuser' would become very angry with the therapist and might make some rather dramatic expressions of that anger."

The doctor and scientist paused briefly after being asked if he believes Ivins committed suicide.

"Oh, yeah," he said. "I think all of the circumstances put him in a place where he felt he had no place to go."

Anderson said he became aware in June that the FBI had taken items out of Ivins' lab.

"The FBI took all of the stored things in his lab freezer," Anderson said. "They basically destroyed his life's work. I think that's what upset him the most."

Anderson said it is "highly incomprehensible" to him that Ivins would be regarded as the perpetrator in this case simply because he had access to anthrax.

He said he last saw Ivins around July 6. Ivins told him the FBI was stalking him, following him everywhere, Anderson said.

"He was animated and appropriately concerned, but certainly not out of control."

Anderson does not believe Ivins is responsible for the 2001 anthrax deaths.

"Now that he can't defend himself against the allegations, this will play out the way it will play out," he said.

But he firmly believes it wasn't guilt that killed his colleague and friend.

"I think it was the sense of betrayal and complete abandonment by those around him," Anderson said. "He cared so much and had so much pride in the work he did -- I don't think he could handle that sense of abandonment."
Frederick News Post 08/04/2008



posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 08:45 AM
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And still this morning the MSM is pimping the government version of this story. Yet even amateur sleuths and average Joes all agree the story makes no sense, for all of the reasons stated in the thread so far. So why hasn't the MSM picked up the question of Philip Zack? They drank the kool-aid about 9/11 and the war with Iraq, now they are doing the same thing with the anthrax story and the war with Iran. Too bad we can't fire the media. How they hell are citizens supposed to get the truth? It's like we're living in the twilight zone.

georgewashington2.blogspot.com...

www.antiwar.com...

newresearchfindings.blogspot.com...


Simply put, the man most likely responsible for stealing the anthrax is Dr. Philip Zack. Zack is a prominent microbiologist who worked at the U.S. Army's Medical Research Institute for Infectious Diseases in Fort Detrick, Maryland while weapons-grade Ames anthrax - the same genetic strain used to terrorize the populace - was stored there. A supposed bigot who taunted his Arab colleagues during his tenure at the facility, Zack was also monitored breaking in and conducting experiments during off hours... while no longer employed at the lab.

Zack has been a prime suspect for years - the Hartford Courant wrote a piece about missing anthrax in January 2002, and Salon pursued its own investigation later that year. Suspicion arose from an allegation against Egyptian microbiologist Ayaad Assaad, a former coworker of Zack's. Assaad was fingered anonymously as a potential bioterrorist in the aftermath of September 11 but before victims were identified. Though cleared of all charges by the FBI, the fact that Assaad's accuser knew so much about his life raised suspicions that said accusations were personally motivated. That dozens of lethal samples of anthrax, ebola and hantavirus disappeared during Zack and Assaad's watch in the 1990s only compounded misgivings that Zack was responsible.



posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 03:53 PM
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I really don't know what to make of this story. I'm not even sure what to say about this:

Sorority Obsession



posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 07:30 PM
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More interesting Anthrax articles

Ivins is The Third Scientist the FBI Has Tried to Pin the Anthrax Attacks On.
georgewashington2.blogspot.com...

The Great Anthrax Stock Swindle
whatreallyhappened.com...

The Anthrax Attack… Classic False Flag
georgewashington2.blogspot.com...

The Patsy: Was Bruce Ivins the Anthrax Killer?
www.antiwar.com...


Much, much more to this than meets the MSM.



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 12:46 AM
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The thing that struck me odd was the letter to The New York Post and NBC.

09-11-01
THIS IS NEXT
TAKE PENACILIN NOW
DEATH TO AMERICA
DEATH TO ISRAEL
ALLAH IS GREAT

The man Ivins was a microbiologist/vaccinologist for 36 years. With the neatness of the writing in all the letters, proper capitalization, punctuation, and the proper spelling of the rest of the words, I hardly believe the man would spell Penicillin improperly.

It boggles the mind. Somehow I'd think a man that smart would have some professional pride in spelling the name of such a well-known and common antibiotic properly.



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 12:53 AM
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From this CNN article:
Doubts about case

It doesn't even sound like the guy had the means to produce the refined Anthrax!



Authorities were looking at whether Ivins may have released anthrax as a way to test a vaccine he was working on, another official said.

But one of Ivins coworkers at the lab, Jeffrey Adamovicz, said he didn't think Ivins was responsible for the letters. Watch why colleague doubts government's case »

"The labs were not equipped, for instance, with a lot of the equipment that would have been required to supposedly dry this material down and create the highly refined state that it was in," said Adamovicz, who worked with Ivins for 12 years.

Adamovicz also said Ivins showed no signs of being homicidal or suicidal, including when he saw him just three weeks ago.



[edit on 5-8-2008 by ghofer]



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 05:57 AM
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Originally posted by resistor
Ivins is The Third Scientist the FBI Has Tried to Pin the Anthrax Attacks


It wouldn't surprise me at all if it were found that the adminstration, neocon werewolf branch, were simply targeting scientists who they thought could be made into patsies.

Unfortunately they had a hard time finding a suitable dumb scientist, so they went about manufacturing a mentally unstable scientist.

I don't doubt at all that they might have a means of destabilizing someone mentally. Then when he's well established as someone "off his rocker" you tighten the prosecutorial screws on him until he cracks and does something self destructive or until a faked suicide will seem plausible to people who knew him.



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 08:06 AM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne
www.cnn.com...


Duley testified that Ivins had been diagnosed as a "sociopathic, homicidal killer" by several top psychiatrists.


Uhm..doesn't this seem odd to anyone else?

Even if there isn't a conspiracy here, there's a serious logical disconnect. If he truly was a sociopathic, homicidal killer, as stated above, what the hell was he doing working with a security clearance in a government bio-weapons facility? There's something seriously wrong with that...

This whole story just stinks to high heaven, and the media has been putting out one story after another trying to justify the guilty until proven innocent verdict. In their scramble to demonize the dead man, I think they're getting overzealous and maybe digging a hole for themselves.

Character assassination is great if it makes you question the character of the individual, but when the employer is the US Government, and the job description involves biological warfare agents, the question becomes - if this guy was so bad, how did he work there, and are there any others like him currently employed in a field that grants them access to weaponized diseases?

And how was it that he was able to remove the anthrax? Does the security really suck that bad at our bio-weapons facilities, that someone with a badge can just walk out with a parcel of anthrax under their arm?

Even if the party line is true, and this guy was just a lone psycho, that doesn't make me feel any better!

So what's the deal? I mean, either way this is really bad for the government - either there's a conspiracy, or just bucket-loads of stupidity.


This is what really intrigues me about this whole thing...how in the hell did this guy maintain his security clearance if it was "known" that he was as he was being portrayed???? If this info is true his clearance surely would have been revoked no????

I saw a report on television where they were interviewing his neighbors and they all knew that there was surveillance going on... He himself knew he was being "watched" and probably finally cracked as a result of the Govt. "suicide Op's". Nothing I have read or seen regarding this whole thing adds up.....there is definitely things going on we don't know.

It's just too convenient... the guy kills himself and the govt. says that they are Pretty Sure that it was him...so time to close the case.

[edit on 8/5/2008 by markophonic]



posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 11:32 AM
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I questioned the double talking DNA testing of the compounds that the FBI did
on the samples. Why? Under the National Security ACT you can't divulge that information for fear our enemies might discover how far advanced our labs are
in bio-weapons design.

You know that's bull# being spun in the media ... come on folks.



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 12:44 AM
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Nothing like the old Suicide to keep em' quit gag. Seriously the weapons inspector in the UK, David Kelly. Morris Jesup.. I dunno man, If someone's dying before they can tell there side of the story is always shady as hell. No doubt the original anthrax nonsense was planned to plant the seeds of fear.


Just my observation.

M.C



posted on Aug, 7 2008 @ 02:38 PM
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Jeez, you'd figure someone here, of all places, would be talking about the fact that Ivins allegedly posted on this very site. Oddly, a search here for anything related to the information below doesn't produce any results. I mean, maybe I'm "doing it wrong" but...

[img=http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/2273/0806081anthrax8jf8.th.gif]

Peace,

P.A.C.



posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by DocMoreau
 



There is plenty of information out there on the unsolved 1982 Chicago Tylenol-cyanide murders:


cbs2chicago.com...

americanfraud.com...



[edit on 8/11/2008 by TheAvenger]



posted on Aug, 12 2008 @ 01:34 AM
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Originally posted by timiathan
If you'll recall, the anthrax was sent to Patrick Leahy and Tom Daschle, the only two people who, as members of the judiciary committee, could have held up the passing of the Patriot Act I. If they don't vote it out of committee it never makes it to the senate.

They make public comments that the bill is unconstitutional, they get anthraxed, and then they roll over like babies. There's a Coincidence Theorist's wet dream.

So in my opinion, the anthrax attacks are the smoking gun -- who cares about demolition or building 7 or IN PLANE SITE. Anthrax came from Ft. Detrich to help the Patriot Act go through. What more evidence than that does anyone need?

And as for whether or not this guy did it -- who knows? He could be an innocent patsy who was murdered, or he could be an accomplice who took the fall and offed himself. Does it really matter?


Even more than that, but in the hours after 9/11, Leahy and Daschle released a joint statement to the press. You can watch this on the DVD that comes with the book released after 9/11 hosted by Dan Rather called "What We Saw". www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1218522650&sr=1-1 This book with the DVD is currently out of print and hard to find. I have watched the DVD though and Dan Rather reads the joint statement in the moments after 9/11. After watching that DVD, I recall thinking it quite a coincidence that the 2 that released a joint statement would receive the 2 anthrax letters to the White House.



posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 10:57 PM
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Read "VACCINE A" by Bruce Matsumoto (Basic Books and available from Google Books) which documents Dr. Bruce Ivins struggle to improve the efficacy of the US anthrax vaccine whose key ingredient, the Anthrax Protective Antigen, was identified in 2002 as the key protection of anthrax bacteria against the human immune system. The human immunity to casual anthrax infection disappears every 6 months after taking BioThrax AVA, because the memory B-cells building APA antibodies die off, when memory B-cells should last your lifetime. APA antibodies can sequester furin, the protein that activates nerve growth factor, transforming growth factor, von Willebrand's factor, para-thyroid hormone, and is the key to creation of memory T-cells. In over thirty years, no one has ever proved that BioThrax can prevent inhalation anthrax infection. See Scott Miller's documentary A CALL TO ARMS 2009 EDITION and the award-winning first person interviews with victim's of the US direct order to take the illegal anthrax vaccine.




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