Why not believe in God?

Originally posted by TheHunted
Is it logical to put your faith into a book says so?

no its not, i certainly do not,read my first post.... ya know if your fine and dandy believing what it is you believe thats cool, just know my prayers are with you.

peace

EDIT: well said as always justammoma.

[edit on 20-7-2008 by pureevil81]

reply to post by 5ealchris


Yeah, hell is supposed to be an existence without God, which, for a Christian, seems like the worst thing possible. I believe that the whole fire and eternity of torture idea was fabricated, most likely originating from the Catholic Church somewhere along the way. This idea was probably just meant to scare people into following the Catholic church. But anyways, I'm not completely sure what the atheist belief is, but I'm assuming they think that when they die they no longer exist. This is wrong according to Christianity. Christian belief would say that these atheists will actually end up spending an eternity in a place without God, which who knows how bad that would be. Probably not to great, and probably a lot worse than just to cease existing.

Originally posted by justamomma

btw.......... how do you feel that you have the authority to say that an atheist is in trouble, but you or others are not? that is defining the Creator and you can not do that as a human since we have no real comprehension of him other than how he reveals himself to us personally as individuals. *said very nicely, not snippily*

[edit on 20-7-2008 by justamomma]

I'm not claiming any authority. If you notice, when I say these things I say "I believe" or "according to Christianity" I'm not saying anything is for sure. It's all about faith and I can't speak of what is real because I don't know. No one can for sure.

reply to post by IAPremed

Hi,
There are a number of reasons why many people no longer behold to the belief system you have chosen for yourself.

We are told by Christians that god gave us free will, yet many people refuse to see we used it freely to empower ourselves in the sight of history, etc.

Let's go back to just after the alleged death of Jesus (real name Esu), when his brother was at the head of the fledgling church. He wanted to continue the work of his brother, which we could say was based on the concept of all people being equal in the sight of god, and therefore should be so in the world.. which is why he deliberately gave the poor good wine to drink instead of watered down wine, at his home. See what we did with that little fact? (BBC; Jesus the Man)

Oh, and I said 'alleged' because there are historical records of Jesus and his wife travelling in other countries after he was supposed to have died.

Paul/Saul had different ideas about the direction for this church.. it was he who gave us the flawed concept of Jesus being the only son of god and dying for our sins! This was a good way to gain converts in his time because he used the words that could be understood by the population of the times and he included a means to gain some degree of power over what the followers would then believe. It was a clever move on his behalf to think up these anecdotes and attribute them to reality, which the masses would love and continue to look to him for Guidance.

So now we move on to the writing of the New Testament, some 40 to 100 years after the fact. Even now we know how much information will change when we line ten people up and tell one something to pass along the line... you will never find the original statement at the end of that line! So why do thinking, intelligent people believe that after 40, 60 or 100 years later the facts would be written down properly, given the additions of Saul/Paul?

We arrive at the Council of Nicea sometime in the 3rd century, which was hosted by the Roman Emporer (forgot the name, lol) who was angered by the fact that all the churchmen he invited to assemble works into a bible could not agree on what should be included and what shouldn't. So as befits one in such power he made the choices based solely on his own desires, again power and the maintaining of control was of great importance for him to be the One holding the Kudos forever in human history for this work.

Much of what Jesus really said about our equality, about our abilities, about our powerfulness as spiritual beings, etc, as recorded in Thomas (Nag Hammadi Library) for instance, was not included. Many more historical records have also been kept out of our sight, as is done today in order to keep us Plebs 'asleep' and under control.

Now to alterations of languages... many scribes deciphering from languages other than their own made changes to words that seemed to make no sense to them and in so doing made irreparable mistakes to the intended meanings of the original words. One word in Hebrew that meant Master of the Craft, in relation to the occupation of Jesus' father, was altered to read as Carpenter. This negated a whole field of information that has only recently started to come to light for us in modern times if you do the research. All up, there are over 4,000 direct mistranslations that we know of.

In modern times we have the ability to choose what we believe out of the available belief-systems prevalent in our controlled societies. We have access to hidden historical records that conflict with the bibles tales. We know the Hebrews came out of Sumer with a heavily edited version of Genesis, which we can illuminate from work done to decipher the Sumerian Tablets that remains intact and unedited.

These are just a small number of illustrations and there are many more to find if you research for yourself.

Be Well.



[edit on

[edit on 20-7-2008 by Tayesin]

reply to post by IAPremed


I believe in God, I pray to him all the time. I believe that I am a splinter of God as is every sentient being in any part of the universe. I do not believe that I have to go to church to get closer to God. It is a place where I can find people who have the hope that somebody is truly going to help them. But there are also people there who go to church and are very hypocritical in that they do not mirror the positive and meaningful deeds that would be a relflection of God. At the end of the day, God would want you to do his work for others. I don't neccisarily speak of the God in the Christian Bible, I'm talking about the Universal entity that I have never met, but who I know I am a splinter of.

Originally posted by TheHunted
There's the rich and then those who live in poverty. Then the most inportant reason is, there's those with huge homes and then there's those that are losing their homes. I seem to being falling in that last category. Doesn't seem like a God exists.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by justamomma

excellent post Momma


[edit on 7/20/2008 by JPhish]

I think you answered your own question. It is a tool of control, like Santa Clause. It is just something that you can tell the kids to make them behave, only on a much larger scale. “Quiet now Lisa or Santa will bring you a lump of coal.” “Witches should be stoned so that god may make proper use of the property they own.” “Vote republican.” “Pay your tithe.” And on and on. But as to your question, I do not think that I should waste the time on worshiping any false god, when even the bible says not to. WHAT GOD DOES NOT WANT TO BE WORSHIPED?

reply to post by IAPremed


Well that might be so but I kinda just thought that they ment not existing.

Because doenst it in revealtion say that in the end times or what ever after it is all over that every one who didnt ecept god would be tossed into a lake of fire and then cease to exist or what ever.

Im not a christian but I love to study other relgions so I do own the bible and other religous books so I know a bit about many of the major religons, and then I just somtimes read them If I wanna verify something or just see whatever.

So thats why I know these things.

when reading your title I immediately thought of "pascal's wager or pascals gambit"

I loved the simplicity of his argument and wrote one of my better papers in college on it.

taken from wiki

that even though the existence of God cannot be determined through reason, a person should "wager" as though God exists, because so living has potentially everything to gain, and certainly nothing to lose.

source

I grew up going to private catholic schools (except for college) and while there I studied philosophy and history (I think I know everything but wont admit to knowing anything) and often spend my time wondering why I am here and where the heck is space! and I counted on science allot to help me with those answers and it does but later I ended up becoming very spiritual and realizing the good aspects of both and I suggest this book by michael creighton its called "Travels" amazing read for really anyone on this board.

[edit on 20-7-2008 by 911fnord]

reply to post by mrwupy

I'm a Spiritual Anarchist. I believe you must over throw religion if you ever want to seriously have a relationship with the divine. The creator of all things does not need a middle man to touch your heart or guide your life. Never has, never will.

Thank You!! Yes, my thought exactly. We can see religion coming to an end now. It is time for God to be known without this crutch that has so misled mankind.

BTW I call myself a "Spiritual Scientist" (nothing to do with Christian Science). I would be considered a heretic also. But just trying to remove the blinders off those who think they have a grasp on what it going on.

It doesnt matter what you have faith in, just as long as you have faith...

Peace and love, K.W

I am Agnostic. Any religion that tells me it is a sin to believe in other religions or Gods, is one I will not agree with. It only makes it OK for me to throw my critical thinking skills out the window.

God has bin the leading cause of death on this planet, need i say more?

satan loves me

[edit on 20-7-2008 by LeeHawt]

reply to post by IAPremed


There is a saying:

"The Truth shall set you free, but first it will make you miserable."

I can't tell you all the revelations I have had since I gave up religion and my addiction to it. Like you, I felt for many more years than you have possibly been alive; to help people and to spread the word that I was taught to do. I even read and studied the Bible too many times to remember. Plus, I even had been a missionary.

I too, felt that I was given the authority to teach everyone or help, even when no-one asked me to help them! Unfortunately, I didn't realize until much later the arrogance of that.

It was a shock to me to realize when I left that; all religions believe that they have the truth! Even though there can be great divisions between them. And all are convinced that every other religion is wrong or is misled.

God opened up to me a world of new revelations after I left religion and no longer labeled myself; Christian or anything for that matter. I can now see what a binding, narrow, box I was in for 40 years (from birth up).

I have used these two quotes many times, but they say it better than I do:

"Religion is for those scared of hell,
Spirituality is for those who have been there.!"

&

"They say...A sinner is someone who knows God -
A priest is someone in search of him!"

matrix prohet and spiritual anarchist, I concur with 100% percent certainty! The church is the middle man who takes the profit and credit of your ability to be touched by god! There's this great belief in a group called Kryon, there a little bit crackpot but some of the things that they believe in are great. "God is love, and love is the most powerful force in the universe.It will protect and serve you!"

Peace and love, K.W!

Why not believe in Hinduism? Why not believe in Taoism? Why not believe in Islam? In my humble opinion, as a person forced to attend church for over 14 years with an extensive knowledge of the Bible, a lot of other religions make much more sense in every way possible. In fact, I have been pseudo-Taoist for quite some time and am now a lot happier and healthier than when I was a Christian. I believe in a Creator. I think Jesus rocked hardcore style, but I do not agree with Man's interpretation of any of the Words of the Creator. In every religion in the world we were given something Divine, but Man went and crapped on it for...nothing.
I consider myself a decent human-being...and as far as your original question goes I would rather live my life doing what I feel is right and makes sense to me than believe in the god that Judaism, Islam, and Christianity paint a picture of. IF (and thats a big IF) he exists when I die, then I will gladly accept whatever fate he decides to meet out unto me...but I am quite sure I will be spared that ordeal.

Hi - first post \o/

If anybody should believe in "God", it's me. I've felt for quite some time that somebody is looking out for me. I won't go into too much detail as it's late, but lets just say that my life was at rock bottom, I prayed (in desperation, I have never been religious) and my prayers were answered. I was going down a very bad path and it was like somebody reached down, picked me up, turned me around, and set me on a path to a wonderful new life.

Also, years ago, in a fit of anxiety and confusion, I begged for a sign that there really was a god. And in that very second I was given a sign - it was incredible. My hairs stand on end even now and it was 14 years ago! I'm not sure I want to go into details on that......not right now anyway.

However, despite all this, I just cannot bring myself to be a religious person. I don't go to church and have no desire to, don't pray, nothing. I can't stop thinking that religion in general is all a joke and religious people are all easily led sheep who need to get a grip. On the one hand I feel (after my experiences) that I should be deeply religious, but on the other hand it leaves me feeling absolutely nothing at all. It's a conflict that plays on my mind a lot. It's like meeting the most beautiful women in the world, so gorgeous she takes your breath away............then realizing you have absolutely no feelings for her whatsoever.

I spend a lot of time confused

reply to post by LeeHawt

reply to post by BaileyKat

I spend a lot of time confused

Confusion in my experience is a very good place to be. I am the most teachable when I am confused and more open to new information or light.

You are in a good spot, but it is an unfamiliar one? Spirituality is far different than religion in that there aren't the familiar boundaries that one may be used to. It takes a while to adjust and to let God show you.

I guess this all depends on how you define God. My biggest problem with the belief in a supreme being is that there is no evidence. None. Zip. Nada. Someone's fuzzy feel-good thoughts about how beautiful the sunset is, so God made it, does not empirical data make. I need proof, something tangible, even a theoretical equation, but there is nothing. To believe in something for which there is no evidence, I would have to lie to myself every day. I'd have to live in a crazy flip-flop world of mythology mixed with reality. Sorry, but I like my sanity and the real world. If I had to pick something to be god, it would be physics.

Since you are Christian, I'll refer to the Christian god when I say, God. Just a few things to think about: If God is a perfect being, why would he make imperfect beings, then punish them for being what he created? Why not just make humans perfect to begin with? What's up with all the brutality, torture, and death? Surely an all-powerful god could snap his fingers and put an end to whatever displeased him. Why would a being, capable of creating an entire universe demand to be loved and worshiped? Why are there so many contradictions in the Bible? If God can't get his own book straight, why should anyone take him seriously? Why would God take thousands of years to spread the knowledge about Jesus around the world? During the time it took for Christianity to go around the world, were people going to Hell who had not heard about Jesus yet?

Originally posted by IAPremed
Then I was thinking, as a Christian,if I'm completely wrong and all those people are correct, then I'm in no trouble....

That's called Pascal's Wager. You are assuming that if you believe in the Christian god, you'll be free and clear. How do you know your god is the right one? What if YOU are worshiping the wrong god and are going to be damned forever? You've got a book that says so? Well everyone else has writings of some sort that say their god is the one. Give me one bit of proof that makes your god more believable than another god.

Originally posted by IAPremedI haven't been to church in years and the only book of the Bible I've read is Revelations.

To quote Bible scholar, Dr. Bart Ehrman, ""If God wrote a book, wouldn't you want to see what he had to say?"
Read your Bible. Read it starting on page one and note all the contradictions, brutality, infanticide, genocide, misogyny, promotion of slavery, promotion of sex with underage children, etc.. Note that in all the brutality of the Old Testament, nowhere does God say he'll burn you for an eternity until the New Testament and peaceful Jesus makes his appearance. What's up with that? Why do people worship a god that, according to the Bible, created evil? (Isaiah 45:7, Amos 3:6, Lamentations 3:38)

This brings me to free will. Tell me how I have free will if God will burn me in a fire, forever, if I don't love him? How can I love the Tyrant of the Universe who wants me to have morals, but has none himself? Now, after reading the Bible, tell me how I could love someone as hideous as the Judeo-Christian god? If God knows the future and the past, how would anyone have free will? Everything would already be determined. How can people pray that God change things without changing free will? For example, if a mugger is about to kill me and I ask God to stop him, and God does, then the mugger wouldn't have free will.

Originally posted by IAPremedI think that if anything is controlling, it's simply the churches, not the religion itself.

Again, read your Bible. The threats and mind control start real early in the Bible and go all the way to the end.

For those who think God wrote the Bible, I recommend this 10 part series on You Tube. I think Google has it too.

youtube.com...