Survive yourself?

reply to post by Szticks


Some people do need that constant social interaction.
Solitude can be a deciding factor in your ability to function.

I'm guessing you haven't ever spent a night alone with a nice open fire that you built yourself,cooking rabbit that you caught yourself.

I can spend hours staring into a fire..It's much better than TV..
And the satisfaction that comes with preparing a nutritious meal (more than rabbit though I'm afraid).

The comfort that comes with shelter,heat and food in the face of a crappy day or night in bad weather is indescribable.

(A big-boobed-blonde would be cool too though.)

reply to post by Szticks



Alone in a forest cooking a rabbit worried your the only one left is a good starting point.

It means you have food, shelter, fire and location already sorted out.

The rest? thats easy. Once SITX dies down to mearly a disaster of epic proportions, start scouting about villages and less populated areas. You'll soon find others happy to see a living soul. If they not happy to see you and get all hostile, kill them and move on.

Originally posted by AGENT_T

Some people do need that constant social interaction.
Solitude can be a deciding factor in your ability to function.

I'm guessing you haven't ever spent a night alone with a nice open fire that you built yourself,cooking rabbit that you caught yourself.

I can spend hours staring into a fire..It's much better than TV..
And the satisfaction that comes with preparing a nutritious meal (more than rabbit though I'm afraid).

The comfort that comes with shelter,heat and food in the face of a crappy day or night in bad weather is indescribable.

(A big-boobed-blonde would be cool too though.)

Swap blonde for brunette and I swear its like watching myself type answers out... awesome!

reply to post by AGENT_T


Oh, I've done that. If I had to label myself I'd have to call myself a 'lonewolf'. I do enjoy fishing, gutting and cooking for myself. But it's one thing spending a weekend in the boondocks all by myself and quite a different thing being forced to trudge on for months without human company.

I guess my point is that there are different kinds of survival; the more down to earth do what needs to be done to wake up in the morning kind. and on the grander scale type; the survival as a race, for which you do need other people. I happen to feel both are needed.

Let's just say that 'I am not legend!'

Ok. Here are my thoughts.

Military personnel (Ex & serving), Medical people, emergency services, farmers, fishermen and general outsdoormen/practical types will be ok. Anything where you have to deal with a fair degree of discomfort or stress means they will all have built good coping mechanisms. Apply this to a extreme survival event and i think these coping mechanisms make a huge difference.

Reasoning? Degree of physical conditioning/stamina, the ability to deal with death in a strait forward manner. The ability to get on with things and not be squimish about killing animals for food or even your fellow man if situation warrants. Practical skills in growing or rearing animals, the ability to deal with stress and emergency situations. To make those difficult decisions, including the practicallites of looking after the old, infirm or young.

I think these groups would show higher than expected survival rates. However your local barrisstar at Starbucks or your check out girl at a supermarket, your merchant banker and car salesmen will be truely screwed. Some would survive but only those with a true will to survive.

On the plus side Ray Mears would be loving it and probably become a real leader, and hopefully Bear Grylis (SIC) will be shot dead by someone.

reply to post by LT mikey


Bear Grylls.

People mock him, but there is one fly in the ointment. You mock a SAS man at your peril - You don't get 'badged' without being one tough son of a gun who has the will power of ten men, let alone two or three.

He will not only survive, but flourish, as will others of that ilke.

His survival skills are awesome but are 'played up' for TV. Ray Mears on the other hand is a life long survivalist student, and really is a man of supreme talent.

Ray Mears for King, Bear Grylls as his champion.

I was always taught by my uncle who was a rough hard core marine asap ( any situation always prepared ) and that meant mentally too .

Bear Grylls..

What can you say??

Probably THE biggest marketing/target audience mistake of documentary TV EVER.

The guy is totally akin to me..
Adventure sports-type..
BUT..I've broken 4 ribs,neck,both ankles. removed a large portion of skin from my body and had to swim for my life twice and an uncountable number of sprains.. ALL in the name of fun..(I won't include 'regular' injuries.)

He nearly died and needed his team-mates to rescue him from a crevasse.

You have to respect his fitness and ability..but he doesn't present a 'survival show'..
It's been glammed up and shock value increased for the viewers to make it look 'extreme'.
I'm pretty sure he'd know NOT to go jumping on crevasses or solidified lava flows in 'real-life' ..I hope.

If you want to 'survive' a Tornado.. you don't go getting into the worst position just to film it for friends on U tube.. You get the hell away from it..get to ground.

Filming it is way more 'fun' but not a very long term career prospect.

Ray is the survival expert's expert.
If you can stay that 'well-padded' in the bush for weeks at a time filming and living it rough..then you know he's got it down VERY naturally.

He'll survive because he doesn't go looking for a cliff to abseil off.

You get out of life exactly what you put into it..
I've had the crazy side.. now I want the Comfy padded side with lamb and dandelion gravy. MMMM.. breakfast time. argghhhhh..

[edit on 21-7-2008 by AGENT_T]

No respect for the man at all i'm afraid. Speaks about what to do in survival situations then displays complete disregard for his own advice, something Ray Mears is careful never to do.

Fact of the matter is Bear Grylls is a bit of a joke to the British Military (as a serving Officer i have met Ray Mears on a survival ex in the New Forrest very highly regarded) Bear or should i say Edward Grylls ( I have had the dubious honour) has been exposed a number of times claiming things that a, never occured or b, was found to be staying a local Motel whilst claiming to be out in wilderness.

You can respect him if you wish but remember that Special Forces are not supermen or invincible they are just very professional soldiers with a lot of experience. The current trend of making SF troops into modern day super heroes is actually having a massive effect on their ability to conduct operations in secrecy/ behind closed doors. The media and the public is fascinated but unfortunately this leads to embellishment and overstatement of abilities and capabilities which occassionally does get close to the truth and compromises techniques and tactics practiced by such organisations.

I don't think being prepared is going to make any difference. I also can't believe that most of you think that the majority people wouldnt be able to survive. Human survival instincts are probably one of the strongest. We are self aware rational thinkers who can problem solve & do what is neccessary to survive. Everyone would find their OWN way. I think alot of people in these survival forums are just re-assuring each other that they are better equipped to tackle a major disatser/event than people who arent as clued up. When in reality it would be MENTAL toughness & the WILL to survive rather than stockpiling etc.

In any major disaster everyone becomes equal, & it is then that true strength & character prevail. Its not about who is the richest or who has the most food. I will grant you that yes, having certain knowledge is very useful for survival, but there is nothing that your average person wouldn't know. The primary things for survival are, Water, Heat,Food & Shelter.

You dont need to watch ray mears for that.

reply to post by LT mikey


Hey no worries and you're not alone.
This is ATS .. a discussion board .. and it would be a boring forum if all everyone ever said was 'I agree'.

His old T.Army C.O says he was a total *cough* from the day he arrived for training.(he's a workmate of my brother).
Others have said he's the nicest guy they've come across.

Personally,my friends don't really extend out of my interests and ATS.
People who don't know me think I'm a *cough* too.. even some who DO know me think the same.
Am I bovvered?

I spent too much time travelling and doing crazy stuff to give two hoots.
I'm pretty sure he shares that frame of mind too.

Gentlemen and Ladies,
I've been mentally preparing a long time for what I knew would come. I have are: some crisis preparedness books, stored food, and weapons. Now that it's probably only weeks or months away -- the total collapse of our systems -- I want to know what you would recommend about the following. I live in a city of 80,000 or so in near a metro area in New England. I cannot move to the country now, I cannot sell my house. Of course I'd rather be in rural Montana or Wyoming, etc., but it's not a possibility.
My plan is to survive here, but I know there will be armed, roving gangs looting and on the hunt for the food in my house. I have no problem taking these people out, but eventually they will burn my house down with me in it or I will run out of ammo. Is this my fate? What would u do, given that I cannot move to a home in the country and most friends and family WOULD NEVER BELIEVE what is about to happen is about to happen. Peace to all of you and good luck....
btw, is "Sitx" the term on here for the general chaos and panic that will ensue when our system crashes and the govt takes over?

reply to post by Briles


The point is Briles, is that the 'average person' doesnt know or even worse, they 'think they know'.

That is the whole point of taking in survival-based knowledge and skills and practicing it in relatively safe environment. It is far better and safer to learn now, than 'on-the-job' ...... mistakes can kill or maim.

As a Trauma and Orthopeadic Nurse in a holiday destination, I see every week the results of average people who dont know or think they know.

Survival skills and knowledge are not ALL about stockpiling for the 'big one'. A situation X can occur at anytime, anyplace and anywhere.

Yes i don't deny that survival knowledge is useful, all im saying is that the basic things needed for survival will be reached by nearly everyone, some will be slower on the uptake, but it doesnt mean they wouldnt survive.

reply to post by Briles


First I would like to thank you for one simple thing.

Originally posted by Briles
I don't think

You used the words I don't think. You could have put it another more abrasive way but you did not. Saying things like I don't think is just as good as saying In my opinion. I personally thank you for that.

As for your comment about most of the people being able to survive Simply on the basis they are human. Do your self a favor and hitch a ride one night with an ambulance team. Those boys and girls get to go out nightly and pick up the pieces of the so called rational common man who wasn't so rational. you will see first hand just how un-rational the human animal is.

I only wish every one became equal in a major survival situation. It is most certainly not true. Most of us here in the survival forums are here because we have been trained to survive either threw a professional organization or threw self training. We are here to help because we have a high regard for life, and want every one to have a fighting chance. Look around you tho. Those that are blind to it will not head the advise and will have a huge chance of doing some thing stupid and dying.

The tools alone will not make you survive but they will in fact help. They will also make you more completable helping you to be that rational human being that you seem to think humans in general are.
panic and rational thought do not go together. Most un-trained un-equipt people will tend to panic first.

I wish I still had the same view of my fellow humans that you do but I have seen to much of the bad non rational side of the human animal to believe that a majority of humans can and will have the fortitude to make it.

I realise that my post was going to cause a bit of a hooha, thats why i was sure to put i think . I guess i just have alot more faith in man than most people. We are the dominant species for a reason. We are top of the food chain for a reason & we have maintained our status for a very very long time. Now, the thing that has bugged me was a comment on the first page of this thread that said 99.9 percent of non-survivalists wouldn't make it. It is naive to think that just because you have training, you are any more equipped than the average person. Yes you have may more KNOWLEDGE but the human will to survive is just as, if not more, important. Obviously those of you who have trained or been trained in survival techniques, will probably strongly disagree. Just have a little more faith in your fellow man.

Think what we have achieved, not just what we have caused.

Oh, where to start, where to start...

I guess the first thing is, don't be quiet! I did the S&F thing after the first few posts. The OP hit the nail on the head, it's the will to survive that allows one to survive, not a bunch of storehouses or technological gadgets. A stockpile of guns and ammo is fine if SitX is you in a foxhole surrounded by the Russian Army. If you're facing me, thanks for the weapons.

Second thing, Dan Tanna, you are the one person I would want to meet (or maybe not want to meet? ) in a life-or-death struggle. I appreciate your attitude and your intensity. Keep it up. I see the survival forum as a place to pick up a few pointers, sure, but moreso a place to try and spread the info I have about surviving. This in hopes that someone else will make it (I'd hate to have to rebuild society alone. ). Your posts assist me in both ways.

No one here knows what a SitX situation will be. We are discussing something that could range from loss of cable TV and having to drive an older car, to living in a mudhole and eating dirt while dodging heavy arms fire. I think far too many people have never had the experience of losing everything, of starting again from scratch, without help from anyone. That's a mind-chiller that will make you sit down, hang your head, and wait to die.

As for Survivor Man, oh, yeah, he'll survive for a while. Long enough to make a fresh meal for something, anyway. The guy is a fool; on one episode in the Everglades, he stepped right over some perfect catfish bait while complaining about how he can't catch fish. Then he decided to build a raft... I was laughing my butt off as it fell apart at the first drop of moisture. The man was surrounded by food and shelter-building materials, and had a carefully-selected bunch of tools; apparently he didn't know how to use them properly. Then he complained about 'having' to eat snake, one of the best meats I know of (next to fried alligator tail)!

What will make the difference between living and dying will be the ability to see things for what they really are: is the thing you are after a need or a luxury? Can you eat things like bark, leaves, roots, and not worry about having some soda to wash it all down? Do you know what to eat? Some of that stuff is nutritious, and some is deadly. Can you throw off societal values that are suddenly no longer applicable? Can you steal for survival without being seen, can you forego a free cache of food that is actually a trap, can you eat a fallen competitor? More importantly, will you?

Can you kill another human while looking in his eyes? That's the 'look' that was mentioned earlier, that gaze that shows you are no longer considered human, but just another annoyance in the way. It can take years to get to that point mentally, or it can take military training. That's more than practice at killing; they literally tear you down mentally so they can put you back together. It's the same look we all get when we kill a mosquito or a cockroach. It is really only scary when it is directed at you, when you become the cockroach.

And perhaps even more importantly, can you turn it on and off? Can you go from being a normal, caring individual in a society to an animal bent on survival at all costs? That will bring the most casualties of any SitX, when people are trying to change and adapt. The harsher the conditions, the harder it will be for people to make that leap, and the more will die trying. They will be the lucky ones; the real horror tales will come later, when the loneliness sets in and that need for social companionship becomes so great. The numbers will be less, but the toll that can take on a human being is too awful to put into words.

No, please don't be quiet. Keep screaming your message loud and clear. I have come to feel a kinship to a great many of those in this forum as well, and I want all of you to survive so we can perhaps meet again on the other side.

There will be the other side. Just never forget that.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


wow probably the best post i have read for a while, you are so right. It is a balance between the two. You make a great point about the difference between "would you" & "could you". Some people could kill another human being to survive but many wouldnt. Mental vs practical, i suppose its about finding the balance.

I'm sorry but most people won't survive. Simply put most people still believe that Meat comes in cellophane and arrives magically at the supermarket. It doesn't matter how hungry people are there is too much softness in society and so people won't have the stones to kill to live.
Too many people have had a sheltered childhood and come the day of the races they will be ill prepared.

Good heads up, look at Hurricane Katrina, FEMA did a study and concluded that 8% to 10% casualties (Dead, wounded or incapacitated) will lead to a total break down of law and order and therefore a break down in social cohesion. This would be everyone for themselves. Don't be foolish and believe that everyone would be fine and nice to each other, fact is desperate times breed desperate people

Originally posted by LT mikey
most people still believe that Meat comes in cellophane and arrives magically at the supermarket.

Wow.. quote of the century and starred.

That about sums up our ' developed society '.
I still see the look on some people's faces when handling processed meat,never mind freshly caught.

I caught my first fish at about 7 and hated the thought of killing it.
It's some people's human nature not to be cruel and soulless as far as harming animals.

Could you kill your 10 year old family pet?if it meant you had enough food to keep your son or daughter alive in an isolated accident with little chance of immediate rescue?
Horrible heartbreaking decision of course,but you all really know the answer to that.

There's a reason why farmers never give their sheep pet names.

-------

I'm no 'LEGEND' either more of a leg end..but boy.. imagine having a shotgun in a zombie-fest.

Harrr.. thar be zombies off tha port bow me laddies.time for a broadside..
hmmm zombie pirates? woohoo..