Soldier in famous Iraq photo never defeated 'demons'

reply to post by yankeerose
My name is Joshua Houle I served two years in Iraq When you bad mouth the president you bad mouth us why is everyone ganging up on bush tell me something have you seen for yourself the good we are doing over there? No? you don't say I have an Idea if you don't know anything about the war besides what you see and hear on the news then go find a soldier Vnd he will tell you he belives in everything we are doing unless of course they were dirt bags then they are just to scared to tell you that we are makeing a diffrence. (One can not stand behind the troop if they do not stand behind the war) so please before you go running at the mouth again stop and think of all the troops you put down with your words. (some go through hell so others don't have to don't ever ever say we have commited crimes against hummanity we did what we had to do to come home to our familys.

It's sad.
I pray for his family and other soldiers in harm's way!
I posted about it; here
A while back.

May God save and bless soldiers!

Originally posted by runetang
wow, i had never heard of someone overdosing on computer duster.

When I was in middle/high school there was a case where some kid got busted for sniffing TV tuner.. chased by mall security and ended up dead from od..

Anyway if you notice the forced air u buy in the stores.. look at some of the cans.. They add crap in it that makes it stink so people dont do this kinda thing..

I will add any image soon to show what i mean..

::EDIT::




See the warning?

::End EDIT::

[edit on 7/21/2008 by ThichHeaded]

reply to post by nyk537

It's somewhat disturbing to me to see this being tied back into the "evil Bush administration" and the usual people the blame for everything is placed on. Sure this is a sad story to hear, but this isn't new.

Get off it for a minute.....

Even a few of us pinko commie liberals can stop and listen to something that needs to be heard every now and then.

The conversation was about this story.....

NOT YOUR POLITICAL IDEOLOGY!

...enjoy Kentucky.

Originally posted by Grafilthy
Get off it for a minute.....

What a lovely way to begin a post.

The conversation was about this story.....

And so was my post. Or did you neglect to read the posts above mine in which people were blaming this and other things on the Bush administration? Apparently so.

...enjoy Kentucky.

And this means what?

You sir are a prime example of why I feel the way I do about most liberals.

Congratulations on accomplishing nothing.

Originally posted by nyk537
It's somewhat disturbing to me to see this being tied back into the "evil Bush administration" and the usual people the blame for everything is placed on. Sure this is a sad story to hear, but this isn't new.

Sure the situation of soldiers suffering greatly isn't new but neither is evil regimes who send their citizens to die for corporate profit. Anyone who attempts to pretend that Bush is all that different from Clinton/Bush Snr/Reagan/Carter/etc just have not looked at what they got away with. The biggest difference of all seems to be that Bush LOOKS stupid while doing the same old criminal things and the fact that he can barely speak English above junior high level doesn't help when he attempts to lie his way trough the crimes.

Unfortunately things like this are a result of the horror that is war. Men like this know of the risks and dangers,

Most men who join the military don't in fact know anything about the 'horrors' of war and while they may be prepared to risk their lives ( in the theoretical /hypothetical sense any ways) there is little evidence in my reading that suggest that many know what they are getting into before it happens. If you look at the disorders and mental illness American servicemen are suffering from fighting a badly equipped insurgency you can only wonder what the result of a high intensity modern war against a similarly armored and armed enemy might be. Obviously not only American soldiers( humans are) are prone to this and the fact that American soldiers suffers like those anywhere else should not be taken as a insult but instead as evidence of our common humanity.

and make the decision to serve their country anyway.

Which must be why ever higher sign up fees are required to draw men into the service and why they are already relatively well rewarded? If it pays like most unskilled jobs would and doesn't take half the work if there isn't a war why wouldn't the 10% of America who can't find job join the army? Isn't the good pay a relatively good indication that Americans don't want to serve themselves or their country by risking their lives? Would it make sense to serve yourself or anyone else that way if the commonly invaded enemies never ever attacked the US to start with ?

It's decisions like those that make men like him heroes to me.

And Adolf Hitler EARNED( he was a good soldier) a Iron cross second class as well. Lets not confuse willpower, self control/bravery under fire with the heroism that regular citizens or civil servants ( firemen comes to mind) displays while attempting to save lives without having to kill.

War has it's hero's as well but it's a far more self interested kind than the type we should pay most respect to.

This is not Bush's fault, or Americas fault, or the war's fault.

If Bush didn't allow the invasion American couldn't have started an illegal war and no one can die in a war that doesn't happen. To say that it's not bushes fault, that 'America' as governmental entity isn't doing the wrong thing or that war isn't a problem just wont bring us any closer to solutions.

This is life, granted it's not a pretty side of life, but it is.

Self defense on your own soil in the interest of your state, country or community may be 'life' but invading foreign countries isn't just 'life' even if that's the illusion some in power are trying to create for us.

Instead of trying to find someone or something to blame for things like this, we should acknowledge what it was this man stood and fought for.

So what did he stand for? Do we know? Was his views accurate and if not why should i feel more sympathy for him than for a ardent Nazi who aided his government in good but misguided faith?

We should take this for what it is and remember the thousands others who are doing the same thing right now.

Yes, but what is it? Should it give me renewed hope for mankind that good men do heroic things while fighting illegal wars that has been condemned by western society or should it leave me completely drained and demoralized given the 1 million Iraqi citizens that have so far perished in this war? What should i feel?

God Bless this man and all our troops.

And i would expect that God may be more concerned with the plight of the 500 000 - 1 000 000 Iraqi Christians of whom 20 odd thousand may have become casualties in this war. What did they do beside be Iraqi citizens and what is so Christian about being Christian and invading foreign countries?

Who do you think a just god would be more concerned with?

Stellar

reply to post by StellarX


You type a lot of words on this subject, so here's a key question for you. What exactly do you know about what it's like being in a war? Were you, for example, one of the soviets that got defeated in Afghanistan?

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Joshua Houle

I AM a disabled Veteran diagnosed with PTSD... so I do know what I am talking about here. I AM at the VA hosp and clinics with these guys quite often. I SEE how the parades and hero talk about supporting the troops tears them up. I SEE and HEAR how pissed off they are at Bush and the military for the lies they were fed...

Ya know... I could go on and on about this. Instead I will just thank you for your service young man, and Bright Blessings to you and yours













[edit on 21-7-2008 by yankeerose]

Originally posted by yankeerose
reply to post by Anonymous ATS

 

I AM a disabled Veteran diagnosed with PTSD...

Thank you for your service

I did a clinical in Nursing School at the Menlo park, California VA PTSD Unit and was horrified by some fo the stories.

The OP mentioned a lack or care an resources for returning Vets. Do you find this to be true?

Well, for every story you read or hear about, there are thousands of others that never see the light of day. This soldier was a war casualty just as if he had been shot or stepped on a land mine. The tragedy of this is the fact that the government, whom he relied and trusted, let him down just as they let down thousands of others from Vietnam to Iraq.

One thing I find interesting, and fellow Mod Squadder FRED T could probably elaborate more on since he is in the trauma business to a degree… is that medics, Doctors and emergency personnel (including nurses) that were constantly exposed to repairing combat violence and witnessing death on a daily basis, had more instances of suicide and PTSD than those in actual combat. Think about what they see in just one day….. then multiply that by a whole tour of duty.

When I saw my roommate, Jim Brookshire, being pulled out of our barracks the morning I left Phan Rang and knowing that only an hour or so was the difference in me being dead too, I carried that as a heavy burden through my final Saigon tour and when I eventually returned home. Even today at 59, 38 years later, I sometimes relive that day in my dreams and it is as crystal clear to me as it was when I first experienced it.

Unlike a lot of my comrades in arms, I never felt I went through any of the PTSD. Sure, I had a few bouts with depression along the way, but it never got to the point that I felt like I was over the edge.

My thoughts are always with those who feel overwhelmed. Too bad the government’s position is still one of spend millions to Train but a fraction to Treat.

Just my opinion.

Dave


[edit on 7/21/2008 by Dave Rabbit]

Such a sad story and I'm sure there are many more.

As has been said already I am sure that half of these men and women wouldn't have had problems if they had been fighting a just war.

Rest in peace.

reply to post by FredT


I do know they are swamped with these beautiful young men and women right now. It breaks my heart Fred.

I can only speak for the MN-VA and TPOC, but I think the VA Caregivers are heros in their own right. They fight the VAdmin, and fight for troop care. The VAdmin has it's head up Bush's @@ so far it can smell the White House lawn.

What I see is that with the direction of VA caregivers... these young men and women are helping each other... sticking together... calling on each other instead of taking it out on themselves or their loved ones. They are inventing their own treatment program as they go along.

All I can say to them is that it takes time... years and years for these mental wounds to get to a point where they do not rule you any more. Ya just gotta hang in there, and love the heck out of the people who love you. They especially need to learn to forgive and be forgiven.

The VA is going to need to hire more mental health types. that's for sure. These troops can't wait weeks or months for treatment or follow up. I am actually pretty proud of the VA system here in Northern MN.

This is where I see the DAV, Legion, VFW should be stepping in to help these guys. But from my experience with them... and I have quit my membership with all... the are so pro Bush, and pro war that they see these troops as sissy's or weaklings and turn their backs on them. They disgust me.





[edit on 21-7-2008 by yankeerose]

reply to post by Operation AJAX


Sad story... this is why you don't put carring humanitarian souls into warring murderous agendas - they don't mix.

It's a massive contradiction to the core of human compassion.

No matter how much the army systematically brainwashes a person to be a unsensitive killing machine... the tide of guilt will always follow.

But like they say... "what are a few thousand basket cases in our scheme of world domination??"

For those of you that think that having normal physical and mental responses to what is horror beyond anything humanly imaginable, is a mental health disorder. You are so Wrong. The ones that experience the horrors of war and don't exhibit symptoms of P.T.S.D. are the unhealthy ones . P.T.S.D. is a normal reaction to a abnormal traumatic experience. a society that condemns these people for being normal humans are the sick ones in that they actually think that they would be any better off if they were to have been exposed to the same situation. There are common symptoms, and some that are just as destructive to the veteran and his family but not as evident. My step grand father 2 uncles and my father, all had to deal with this silent killer of the body and soul. The amount of stress that one has to endure just to function with this condition takes it's toll, both physically and mentally. Often Wives and children of veterans are diagnosed with secondary P.T.S.D. The mindless advice from people that consider themselves above those that are living with this condition that think that they "can put it behind you, don't think about it, get over it, and other unkindly remarks, just as well tell a dead man to walk. There are those that are in denial about the effects of trauma that they were exposed to, but wonder why they alienate the ones that they love. It manifest in different ways in different people.

reply to post by yankeerose


No doubt! my comments about the VA were directed at the administration of the system and not the people workign there. My mother was an occupational therapist at the Menlo park VA so I know they have good people working there.

"Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.” -- Henry Kissinger as quoted in the book “Kiss the Boys Goodbye"

This is the mentality of the guys sending are brave men and women to die, in unnecessary wars. I dream of the day when the assholes who start wars, actually show some back bone and actually fight in them. As for Henry Kissinger he is a demon of a man, his plans for the NWO will fail.

reply to post by yankeerose
I really don't see the profit in calling out the Bush administration for the lack of treatment of disabled vets. I am one, 15%. I got out when the Carter administration was comiong to a close, and I'm here to tell you, my friend, this problem does cross party lines.
The folks at the V.A, do a terriffic job with resources that are laughable.



[edit on 7/21/2008 by LAUGHING-CAT]

reply to post by Dave Rabbit

Well, for every story you read or hear about, there are thousands of others that never see the light of day.

Exactly Dave,

One very frustrating thing is the civilian tendency to believe that Soldiers are all "Carbon Copy Cookie Cutters" and they will all react exactly the same and will all suffer exactly the same.

For me, I know that I have PTSD and fairly severe depression, but I handle it. Now for me, is it from the violence I saw and lived through in the Marines, or the violence I see and live through on the streets of this great nation? Some suffer far more than me, some suffer less.

The idea that a soldiers suffering is due to some idealized hypothetical opinion of the war is ridiculous to the extreme. Some Soldiers suffer, others do OK, and the effects, and after effects, will be as varied as the number of men and women we have in harms way.

Regardless of the reasons men and women go to combat, we do. The reasons we go are also as many and as varied as there are combat troops. That also has little to nothing to do with anyones ideology, it is more often than not, just someone wanting to serve; wanting to give something back.

I served, I still serve. I did what I did and I do what I do because I truly, in my heart and soul believe in this:

"All it takes for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing" (Edmund Burke)

Regardless of how they may word it, most who serve believe in that.

It's what we do, not because of anyones opinion of the battle; it's just what we do...

Semper

I read through this thread and debated with myself over posting or not.

This story is heart breaking, yes. A man came home with PTSD & turned to drugs. My heart goes out to the family & I consider him another casuality of this war. I also completely agree that more needs to be done for our returning men & women because not all of them can deal with going back to civilian life.

With that said, I have several vet's in my family, two currently fighting in Iraq & one just home from Afghanistan. These men made the choice to go there. One went for a second tour & one other came out of retirement to go. (he retired after serving in the gulf)

I saw the pain that weighed on them when they came home & can not imagine the things they have experienced, but I do know this. When asked about their time there, the answers were almost identical. They both smiled at the memory of the children they encountered, the ones they feel they helped by paving a future of hope, out of a war of pain. (Soldier #3 has not had a leave yet, so I can't speak for him)

IMO, regardless of why we went there in the first place, we have a entire generation of children in Iraq who will grow up in a new country with their first tastes of freedom. Both of my soldiers will keep those smiling faces in their mind & in a way, those faces will help keep the demons that came with it at bay. IMO, and their opinion, they fought for humanity & I will forever be proud of them.

There, I said my peace, rip me apart if you want, but I stand behind my boys & they stand behind their Commander In Chief.

Nice post Semper!

It's like all the good our nation is done is tossed out the window. Many of our Grandpas and Great Uncles etc. fought in WWII preventing the spread of tyranny.

In Vietnam, soldiers coming home and getting spat on. How badly that must have felt. The last scene in Rambo I still moves me BTW.

Someone has to do the fighting, because if they don't, tyranny will rule the land. Free speech and nations are scarce and most of what has been fought for up to this point is for freedom's sake.

Imagine now an America without a military. Do you think America would last long as a free and independent nation?

Many forget the sacrafices made so they can have the quality of life they do.

Other countries wonder why America is so proud, we have reason to be. We saved the free world more than once and may have to do it yet again.