Bible Prophesy End Time Marker

What No KJ Bible
you Heathens

reply to post by miriam0566


I think the seven year idea comes from Daniel 9:

27"And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

We see something like this in Revelation 17:

16The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to give the beast their power to rule, until God's words are fulfilled. 18The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."

What this sounds like to me, is that the ten horns represent the ten kingdoms.
For a long time they gave their power over to the woman to rule over them.
Now, we see a situation where the woman has been stripped of her authority.
It says the woman will not get back that power.
One of the Kings, out of the ten will take an authoritative role and will get the rest of the kings to create a treaty.
My personal view, just taking it as it is written, is that the European Union will make a treaty with Israel, with the Pope (the head of the woman) will see to how the treaty is carried out, in the religious matters.
For this treaty to fit the "powerful" requirement, it would have to include the nations that are Israel's potential enemies.
All this is being carried out, right now, so my interpretation is slanted towards fitting real world current events.
What is going on now is very significant, but is kept low-profile to not queer the deal before it is finalized.
The outcome could be the rebuilding of the Temple, but don't count on it.
A deal will be brokered, but disaster comes while it is being carried out.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33

If you read and understood the book of Revelation you would know that when this declaration finally comes organized religion will be at it's weakest point in all history.

I would disagree with you on your assessment of religion during the period we are talking about.

The more violence and upheaval occurring in the world the more people turn to religion, it never fails.

It isn't that there will be less religion there will actually be more religion, it is that religion will become more diffuse

I don't see religion getting weaker during the period of the end times, it is just going to be more diluted by varying and differing types and denominations.

Our definitions of things like religion and government are controlled by the PTB's of the world, and unless we as individuals seek out the truth on our own terms outside of all power structures of whatever type, religious or secular, it is impossible to know it.

Let me give you my take on the first few words of 1Th 5:3 which we are discussing and you may see what I mean.

1Th 5:3a (KJV)

For when they shall say, Peace and safety

End:

Now this is all my speculation based on the idea that today could be part of the end times, trying to identify in modern terms what groups of people would best fit with these particular words in the scriptures.

In my opinion the "they,' from the perspective living in the US today here and now, would have to be mainly Christian religious preachers and their followers, from all the different denominations that are built fundamentally on the doctrines of discipline and obedience to their particular way of seeing things, versus the teaching of life through faith and real time spiritual manifestation of power.

What is important is the effect the people doing the saying is producing on the people listening, and the ideas their particular group or cause is founded on.

Is what they are about drawing individuals away from the truth into some collective lie, and does what they are doing depend fundamentally on the ideas of discipline and obedience?

The religious Jews who followed Paul from city to city were teaching the new believers who had heard the word of Paul, saying that the right way to live was through discipline and obedience to the law of moses, the first four books of the bible, the ten commandments etc. and their particular religious interpretations of the scriptures at that time.

These religious Jews were using the teaching of ideas like obedience and discipline as the means a person was to employ to live rightly in the sight of God, specifically discipline and obedience to the law, a sort of justification through works.

They taught this as a deception from the truth of what Paul was teaching.

Paul taught that believers should walk and live be faith alone, not by sight.

For the best understanding of the differences in the conflicting methods presented, you could read the book of Galatians, because the people of Galatia were the most negatively effected from the introduction of this doctrinal error by the religious Jews.

Here is an example of Paul confronting the Galatians for turning away from a faith based life to one of works by obedience and discipline to the law.

Ga 1:6 - 8

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Ga 2:21, 3:1 - 7

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Ga 3:11 - 12

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

End:

It was the teaching of good works through personal discipline and obedience to religiously determined rules and commands that led to the great falling away from the truth of believers, recorded in scripture which occurred towards the end of the first century.

These people who fell away from the original teachings of life by faith alone through the supernatural manifesting of the power of God, became what we know and recognize today as the Christian religion.

But you can trace the break up of the first century believers into what was to become the Christian religion, it was all based around the teaching of discipline and obedience for right living, which is in my view the very first teachings after the day of Pentecost to be used to deceive honest believers away from living for God, to get them instead to turn and live for some religion.

The idea that you can have a real working relationship with the creator by the keeping, through obedience and discipline, of some predetermined set of rules and activities, or by simply being a good person, is contrary to the operations of the holy spirit.

Getting back to the first few words of 1Th 5:3a "For when they shall say, Peace and safety."

The "they" who will be saying this, in my opinion, updated to our modern time and for my situation here in the US, are mostly Christian preachers in denominations that are founded on doctrines of life with God through discipline and obedience.

What was really exciting for me though, as I was delving into this verse, was looking at the ideas for what the word of peace and safety which they will be communicating at that time, could be.

I personally don't believe we are at the end times.

But nevertheless I tried to find modern correlations that could fit to the gist of what I thought was being conveyed in the phrase, "peace and safety."

One of the best examples I think that fits the bill for a Christian preacher today who's teachings fundamentally, for their appeal to draw away honest believers from a life with God by faith alone, depend on the ideas of discipline and obedience, and in his words is saying peace and safety, is Joel Osteen.

His books his weekly sermons I think serve as great examples of a modern day interpretation of what, a word or saying of peace and safety, might look and sound like now.

You could think of the words peace and safety to mean more fully "peace and prosperity, certainty and safety."

If you take apart the teachings of someone like Joel Osteen, you see it makes a perfect candidate for what 1Th 5:3 is communicating about those saying peace and safety.

Osteen's teachings basically say, anyone can have peace and prosperity, certainty and safety, in this time of tumult, all they need to do is be disciplined to obey certain biblical principles, that he has laid out for everyone of course in his ministry and work.

Another candidate I noticed could be the teaching of the, "rapture" by the fundamentalist sects of Christianity.

The rapture basically tells the faithful that they don't have anything to worry about, Jesus is coming back for them and so they are going to be safe and have peace, while the rest of us are going to burn in hell on earth.

However the teaching of the rapture is not normally directed at a general audience, but at people who are already in a state of unbelief, as are most who are religious, they have already become apatetic towards the idea of walking by the spirit of God and living by faith alone, before they ever hear about the rapture.

The teaching of the rapture is not being used to draw people away from a life with God by faith, that is why I would be more inclined to go with some teachings along the lines of what you might hear from a Joel Osteen or a Billy Graham and not a Hagee or Robertson,

The, "they" of 1Th 5:3a who will be saying, peace and safety, from an American point of view here and now, should be mostly Christians preachers with their disciples and followers, their teachings and results, what they are geared toward achieving, actively reach out drawing individuals away from trying to live a life by faith alone where they learn to walk and grow by the manifestation of supernatural power in real time, and into a life to be lived by discipline and obedience, of spiritual death, by promising peace and prosperity, certainty and security, as a bribe to the mind of the individual hearing.

reply to post by newday


Your "they" have no power on the world scene to make it seem real, if the religious leaders said a week from now we have "peace & safety" nobody would buy it. It MUST have political biting teeth that the world buys into, not just America. They can join and agree with it however.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33

Your "they" have no power on the world scene to make it seem real, if the religious leaders said a week from now we have "peace & safety" nobody would buy it. It MUST have political biting teeth that the world buys into, not just America. They can join and agree with it however.

The world is not the focus of the word of God.

Form Gods vantage point government has on power either, and politics is meaningless.

People, individuals who simply believe God are the minority, they always have been and always will be.

These people live beyond any need for religion, they are holly and sanctified, unpolluted by religious ideas, they are greater than just Christians or Muslims, they operate above the reach of any government or force in this world, by the power of God.

Consider the flood in the bible for an example.

The estimates of population in the world at the time of the flood that I have seen put it anywhere from 2 billion to as high as 8 billion, and out of that population it came down to only one man who believed God sufficiently to hear His word.

Even Noah's own children didn't believe until it started to rain.

Out of the billions that were alive at the time of the flood God was only able to save a handful.

The most fascinating thing about the flood to me is the fact that Noah is called in the bible a preacher.

He preached for nearly a hundred years and no one ever believed a word he said, not even his own family.

You have a misunderstanding about the nature of real power, what it is and who holds it.

We are led to believe that knowledge is power, but we are never told that knowledge can be received from within as well as without.

In fact revelation knowledge is more dependable and valid than any knowledge you could ever ascertain by your five senses.

This is how Noah knew of the flood and to built the boat he used to save what he did of the world, he received revelation wisdom and knowledge from God.

Who has power?

If God is all knowing and He can communicate any bit of information necessary for me to know, and I trust in God by faith and others don't, can any knowledge in this world that they may get for themselves, give them power over me?

God is the great power, there is nothing in this universe greater than the power of God, nothing can stand against God.

Religion and science are meaningless, all the things of this world that can be known by men are foolishness to God, that is either the truth or it is not.

Most people never experience for themselves the power of God, though God would have all not only know it in their mind, but also realize it for themselves, to literally see it with their own eyes.

If you ever do perform a miracle, or any supernatural operations of miraculous power, you would immediately understand the insignificance of what the world deems to be important and powerful, such as government or religion.

There is literally nothing impossible to those of us who believe.

The only thing that limits us is ourselves, because God certainly has not put any limit on things.

God is more willing and able to manifest His power and presence in our lives than we are willing to believe.

Our life here, and our reality is nothing, everything we see is a manifestation of a greater reality at work, even our consciousness, we are like a thought in the mind of God at best.

Where do your thoughts go when you change your mind?

Changing our reality for God is like us changing our mind.

However there are limits to this analogy, because God does not have a mind like you or I do, He has only a will, and our reality is the summation of His will continuously occurring, to allow for the procession of all of what we call and perceive to be real to go on..

God is in the eternal moment, to be near God we must bring ourselves into the twinkling of things, while reality is being shaped and constrained, as it all is occurring.

If we can be still we can know God and see His exceeding great and measureless power, anyone can.

What do you think the purpose of revelation is?

Revelation is revelation whether it is received first hand like with Noah, or second hand like when we read the book of revelations, it is wisdom and knowledge from God.

If we know it by revolution, God has revealed it to us for a reason?

What we think of revelation, no matter the way it is received, that is what is important, do we believe in it?

Has God truly revealed wisdom and knowledge to us?

All revelation is personal, it is always first and foremost for the individual believer to act upon.

Since we know what is going to happen to this world and the people of this world, like Noah knew what was going to happen with the people of his day and his world, what is it you think that you or I or anyone who believes should do?

If it is the end times you can't prevent the billions who are going to die from dying, nor the end of this world from coming, so what do you think a believing person should do with this sort of revelation knowledge?

reply to post by newday


newday we are on two different thought patterns here, I totally get your post. I am not sure you understood my point. You must know that God has in the past used political entities although not blessed by him to fulfill bible prophesy.For exmaple the Medes & Persians liberating the Jews from ancient Babylon.

How the world views future events, and how they line up with prophesy is what WE are watching for. Many people don't know or care what the bible says so it doesn't influence them. But how they react does relate to scripture even if they don't believe in it.

For example these scriptures show reactions of people and groups during the last days

Revelation Chapter 18
2 Timothy 3: 1-7

It's interesting how much Obama says he plans to go the diplomatic route to achieve peace vs McCain, who says nah you never sit down with your enemies, period, that's appeasement. He has been hardened by his POW experience.

It really looks like Obama is going to take this election now, Palin is a neocon type christian, who is just as warlike as McCain maybe even more.

Somebody like Palin has bought into the war on terror bigtime.

Somehow I just sense that Obama is talking tough now, to reassure independants that he can protect America. And although I have no proof I just get a feeling that once in office, he will slowly ease off on the military options.
It's actually an area where Biden and Obama will eventually disagree I predict.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Obama IS and endtime antichrist. He supports murder of infants and is a liar on all things he speaks.

I have issue with anything written by Paul/Saul. Too many times Paul is quoted instead of Christ..........why?

All the other apostles are quoted as Christ spoke through Mark/Matthew/John/etc, yet often Paul is quoted as "PAUL Said"?. Why?

Paul said has no weight when it conflicts with Christ said..........

Obama is an antichrist if not THE antichrist who will lead billions into hell.......

we have a time of 'peace & security' every year,
it's also a time when cease fires are agreed upon (but not Always)

It's the time window we in the West honor as "Christmas"

the 25 Dec/ Christmas is also pointed out as the time of world wide celebration, when gifts are given....because the 'Two Witnesses',
who rained plagues & droughts on the world for 1,260 days were now
laying dead...and the world celebrated!.

The verses about 'peace & security' are also refering to this peace & goodwill holiday period, right before the bowls of wrath are poured out over the world/beast kingdom ( the judgement) rather than the beginning of the tribulation period.
Thesselonian & Revelation are both pointing to the X-Mas, the anti-christ holiday, which has nothing to do with Christ at all, or ever had

donate.barackobama.com...

Look at what the back of his this shirt says, Obama will win the election and go onto try to fulfill what that shirt says, he has made it all the way to nation.

He only has the world to try to change now.

To me an Obama win is the beginning of the end game for this scripture I originally quoted in my first post.

Some say it's really bad, but if you have faith it's actually really good news.
Not because Obama is a good or bad leader none of that. Because those of who follow the bible always knew God's purpose would be mapped out, and for those looking for it, they can see it's shadow before it actually gets here.

Ok I was listening for it, and Obama used the phrase "Peace & Security" in his victory speech in addressing the world.

IT HAS BEGUN!

reply to post by WatchNLearn


How very little you know then about the bible. It IS historically correct and as far as academics go--there in no one more intelligent in the universe than the Creator of everything--GOD! Shame on you for being so unintelligent about this. Bible writers did NOT have their own agenda to write about--they wrote about God's! You know very little of what is actually in the Bible because you have probably never actually read it from cover to cover or studied with God's view in mind. The purpose and message of the Bible is God's Kingdom which will "crush and put an end to all governments on earth" (Dan 2:44) and remain to time indefinite. The earth will return to a paradise in which God meant for people to live in from the beginning and there will be peace and harmony, no one will get sick or die (Rev. 21: 3 & 4) forever! Like it or not, believe it or not, it is going to happen. And it all starts when "they are saying Peace & Security".

wow... interesting viewpoint...

Originally posted by pureevil81
reply to post by WatchNLearn

 

name some contradictions please?

yes the bible has been edited but it sounds like someone told you that and now you think its " da debil"

Here is a good source.....an index of probably all of the well known 'contradictions'......and the answers to counter them.

The list is at the bottom of the page, if you scroll down.

www.bringyou.to...

[edit on 6-11-2008 by Old Man]

On November 4, 2008 A triumphant Barack Obama was elected America’s 44th President, and immediately committed himself to furthering peace and security around the world.

Addressing those overseas who were watching his election he said: “Our stories are singular, but our destiny is shared, and a new dawn of American leadership is at hand. To those who would tear this world down - we will defeat you. To those who seek peace and security - we support you."

reply to post by WatchNLearn


WatchNLearn:

Sorry to disagree but if your argument is 'the bible is full of contridictions that could be nothing farther from the truth concerning the END OF TIMES.

All four gospels including the letters of Paul, Book of Hebrews, OT prophets and the Book of Revelations ALL tell of the end of days. There is a scope of writers who did not know each other and some were not even born at the time when others were warning what the end of days would be like.

So, there must be some meat to the story if it is mentioned so many times and by a wide range of dates between writers.

Now, I am not saying that the bible maybe hasn't been tamped with....I don't know. What I do know is that I don't need to go to church to have a personal relationship with the Father in heaven. I believe if we come to God with a humbled heart, mind, spirit, and body that he will take care of the rest.


Peace to you,
Grandma

reply to post by WatchNLearn


HOW ABOUT WHAT OUR SPIRITSAYS




I wish you peace in the name of Christ Jesus our Lord!

Grandma

When
G3752 hotan hot'-an
from G3753 and G302;
whenever (implying hypothesis or more or less uncertainty); also causatively
(conjunctionally) inasmuch as:--as long (soon) as, that, + till, when(-soever),
while.

They may be saying
G3004 lego leg'-o
a primary verb;properly, to "lay" forth, i.e. (figuratively) relate (in words (usually of systematic or set discourse; whereas G2036 and G5346 generally refer to an individual expression or speech respectively; while G4483 is properly to break silence merely, and G2980 means an extended or random harangue)); by implication, to mean:--ask, bid, boast, call, describe, give out, name, put forth, say(-ing, on), shew, speak, tell, utter.

Peace
G1515 eirene i-ray'-nay
probably from a primary verb eiro (to join);
peace (literally or figuratively); by implication, prosperity:--one, peace,
quietness, rest, + set at one again

Unaware
G160 aiphnidios aheef-nid'-ee-os
from a compound of G1 (as a negative particle) and G5316 (compare G1810) (meaning non-apparent);
unexpected, i.e. (adverbially) suddenly:--sudden, unawares.

The verse is speaking of peoples destruction, while they are unaware of it happening, not something that will be proclaimed. It is in reference to those who think they are safe or saved and proclaiming it.

Since afterlife is not life, unaware do people proclaim their security not knowing that to die, you die. Instead they proclaim a salvation they have never seen and a rock they can not feel to stand on. This is the true deception for if you sow the wind, you will reap the whirlwind.

Peace

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand



You are taking it symbolically, it will be a literal event.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


It's happening as we speak. Everything has a head, it just hasn't crowned for you to see it yet, but that moment is compressing, and all are beginning to feel it.

Don't get the Cigars out just yet...
Peace

[edit on 26-11-2008 by letthereaderunderstand]