First Guantanamo video released

Originally posted by Zenskeptical
They should just have killed him. If he threw the grenade and killed one of our soldiers than why are we wasting immense sums of money on this little terrorist.

There is no evidence he threw the grenade...no trial....no evidence...Do you actually read posts?...

I don't know if the kid killed anyone or not, but I do have this to say.
All you people who say you're "patriots" (WhatTheory, rcwj75, ect.) you are the biggest traitors to this country, you are sell outs to a government that HATES IT'S OWN PEOPLE! You folks are so frekin' retarded, you think anyone who disagrees with the prez is a "democrat" or "liberal" or some BS that you heard from Bill O'rielly while you were sucking on his tiny HooHa. I'm not a liberal, I'm not a conservative, I'm someone who actually supports the constitution like MANY here do. You guys are traitors to this country, you support anything the prez does and condem anything any REAL patriot to this country does, you guys are the real Al Queada, you guys are the ones trying to steal the American freedoms and liberties, not some guy in a F-ing cave that died years ago. THis kid may have been wrongly accused, show me proof that says otherwise, the problem is that you most likely can't cause it's a matter of "National Securety", that means that any evidence that the gov doesn't want that could possibly show them doing wrong, is kept locked away. how's about all the survalence footage of the Pentagon hit that was confiscated? There have been many FOIA requests concerning the public release of that footage, they have never been able to get anymore than two of those videos out to the public, one of them shows nothing hitting the side of the wall, the other shows a small blue thing (much smaller than a comercial airliner) hitting the building. So even if we request security footage of detainees, we won't get it, why? because the gov does not want to release anything that could possibly drum up support for the up coming revolution that will happen soon. So let's just face it, we're never going to know if this kid was ever guilty of anything, you guy's are just poo flinging monkeys.
One of these days when your forced to comly with martial law you'll look back and see that us crazy CTer's were right. Honestly, I'm just stating what I believe many on this forum feel. Quit derailing threads, you're nothing but a bunch of trolls.
Mods, please, don't edit my post, everything I've said is on topic and relivant to the topic posted even though I'm coming down and little hard and a little brash.

-Jimmy

Originally posted by budski
reply to post by Sky watcher

 

Take a look back on page one, read the links I provided.

This sort of behaviour from the coalition does nothing except breed more "terrorists"

Perhaps if we in the west hadn't been interfering in their countries and trying to steal their resources for so long, there wouldn't BE any "terrorists"

As for your remark that I am sick, I'd suggest a look at the bigger picture here, instead of listening only to the false accusations made by shrub&co.

In the meantime, I'd suggest an apology might be in order - I didn't insult you, and I see no reason why you should insult me merely for discussing something the shrub administration has already admitted to.

Im sorry Bud but there will be no such appolgy from me to you. Now Bush is far from perfect and has done some critical mistakes and I dont care if you gripe about them but when you have come here day and day out and say over and over that the terrorist are always right and they should not be punished for what they have done I have to call it like I see it.

What the heck do you expect us to do with these killers? Do you want us to overload our courts with them and have them use our system against us and have trials that last for years. Did we do that in WWII? Every terrorist is akin to the Nazi SS and it is them that should hang just like we did to the Natzis in the Hauge. They were caught red handed so there is no need for a trial and I dont care if they hang from their toe nails all darn day.

We are not creating more terrorist. Any person who justifies resorting to the actions of terrorist because of something like this was always going to be one anyway and if you cant see that then you are more ignorant than I thought.

I dont agree with people being renditioned for suspected crap but when they catch them red handed you should not be defending them.
Pardon the spelling I have no spell check on this PC at work.

Originally posted by budski
reply to post by Raist

 

Fair comment, but I think that because this is the first snippet of video coming out of gitmo, it has merit - I also don't doubt that there has been a much greater degree of violence meted out to other prisoners.

The other issue for me, is that this is A CHILD who is being "vigorously" questioned.

We're the guys who are supposed to have the moral high ground - anything less than absolute transparency damages our countries.

This "Child" gave up that right when he engaged in warfare...he is no longer a child, but an enemy combatant, which everyone here seems to have forgotten...like one poster said...he's Canadian...soooo how did he get there??? Did his parents foot the bill, or did he go off on his own? If his parents DID foot the bill, then they need to be locked up as well for aiding a terrorist organization...also, one poster stated that the US military "Bombs Indescriminately"....I have to raise the BS flag on that one...for several reasons listed below...

1) As former USAF Flightcrew, I participated in the planning and execution of the airwar over both Afganistan and Iraq. I KNOW the lengths that we take to REDUCE civilian casualties...it's an amazing thing we do to reduce them, as I can guarantee when a JDAM or an LGB goes offcourse and hits the wrong thing and kills or injures innocent people, we ALL feel terrible.

2) In reference to bombs off target...well, they still do go off course occasionally...Indescriminate bombing is likened to the carpet bombing of WWII or Vietnam...THAT is indescriminate...not the precision that we have today...we CAN and DO put bombs right through windows, doors, etc...with an 25 meter effectivness and a 98% strike ratio...but like I said...they do go off course sometimes...and THAT TOTALLY SUCKS!!!

3) As for the "Poor poor Prisoners" at GITMO and Abu Grahib...Sorry...no feelings AT ALL...As for Abu Grahib...I was treated harsher at my fraternity pledge week than that...soooo, nope...and GITMO...again....but nope...sleep deprivation and moving from place to place IS NOT torture...it is routine interogation techniques...and the information gleened from that has been VERY valuable and has gotten more that a few of the big boys in Iraq and Afgansitan schwacked...when their compadres in the field stop killing innocent men, women and children and stop the beheadings, then I'll feel a little different...until then...nope...

4) Do I believe in Beatings, etc...ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! There are other interogation techniques that work WAYYYYY better than that...not to mention it's not the right thing to do...but as one poster described "We are party to the Geneva Convention"...yes we are...But so far, we're really the only ones playing by the rules of war....they sure as heck aren't

Meet the HERO that this murderer traveled half way around the world in order to kill.

Christopher Speer

I don't care how much Omar Khadr whines. He put himself in that situation. He went out of his way to travel around the world to engage American troops. Well .. he got his wish. And now he suffers the consequences of his actions.

edited for spelling


[edit on 7/16/2008 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by Quazga
It may have escaped your notice, but our troops are subject to he geneva The Japanese performed torture to the exact same degree as we have performed it and we used that to justify dropping a bomb on a couple large populated cities.

So now the shoe is on the other foot......

Really? The Japanese used POWs for bayonet practice, and for biological warfare experiments. They were also used for force labor in factories and for building roads and railways.

Haven't seen that happen to anyone in US custody.

[edit on 16-7-2008 by jerico65]

That little whinner complains he lost his feet, its still attached. He says he can't move his arms and his is still able to lift his shirt with his own bare hands. He complains about no medical care, well many Americans feel the same way. Guess he regrets killing the Evil Infidel American Crusader after all...especially when you spend many years in Gitmo. He may have been 15 years old, but he was an infantry.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Personally it makes me sick treating at CHILD like this, I doubt he was aware of his actions. He should of been put to trial in a Canadian Court and not held and treated like a ****ing animal.

say what?? treated like an animal???? so let me see if i get this right he kills some one and because he cries like a little girl he is being treated like an animal?

at 15 most if not all of us know what the we are doing.
i was actually expecting a video shown guards beating him, then we would have agreed but this?
for crying out loud(pun intended) the guard even told him to take a break and eat something, would he do the same if you where his prisoner?

[edit on 16-7-2008 by miguelbmx]

[edit on 16-7-2008 by miguelbmx]

What makes me sick is if we just let these violent criminal combatants go, the lefty pinko squads will parade them around like heros. Now that would surely encourage more idiots to go out and do the same.
No, I agree with keeping them in detention for the entire duration of the war on terror.
But what's that the little pinko squadies are about to say??? The war on terror will never end? Well good, that surely will help to deter dumbass 15 year olds from participating in a warzone halfway around the world. It is much safer for children to come to ATS and call Bush names.

Tell you what gets my goat is that our goverments give out compensation to people that we have tortured..
But I ask you what about the men and women of our countries that are sent to fight in these wars? Ok they had a choice when the signed on the dotted line but there is some cases out there where service personel have died because of faulty equipment or friendly fire and their families get jack from the goverments

Originally posted by Quazga
Because the spirit of the Geneva Conventions was to PROTECT our selves from our enemies.
Your inability to grasp this concept is EXACTLY why the Geneva Conventions were even agreed upon.

The spirit? How about you stop with the 'touchy' 'feely' nonesense and go by the law and what the conventions actually say.

The Japanese performed torture to the exact same degree as we have performed it and we used that to justify dropping a bomb on a couple large populated cities.

Umm...NO! We dropped a bomb on Japan because they attacked Pearl Harbor and it would have been to costly in terms of American lives to actually invade Japan. BTW, the Japanese used 'real' torture and not the college hazing people like yourself like to call torture.

I don't believe you understand the ramifications of a nations actions.

Oh, I do and unfortunately you don't. If we would run this country like you would wish, we would not have such a great country which allows you to sit and type on a PC and criticize her. Sad, just sad.

[edit on 16-7-2008 by WhatTheory]

Originally posted by yllibdab
Tell you what gets my goat is that our goverments give out compensation to people that we have tortured..
But I ask you what about the men and women of our countries that are sent to fight in these wars? Ok they had a choice when the signed on the dotted line but there is some cases out there where service personel have died because of faulty equipment or friendly fire and their families get jack from the goverments

The Uk doesnt give two flying monkey shaped grapefruits about equipment...they have cut military spending hugely...i only know three people in afghanistan right now...but each of them has told me about the equipment problem..considering thats only three people..im guessing the problem is widespread...but the MOD doesn't care...Westminster doesnt care....and thats that..What a wonderfull thing these people are fighting for...they cant even get armoured trucks or body armour...

Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
All you people who say you're "patriots" (WhatTheory, rcwj75, ect.) you are the biggest traitors to this country, you are sell outs to a government that HATES IT'S OWN PEOPLE!

yeah, we don't agree with you so we are 'sellouts'. Please take your faux outrage elsewhere. Please enlighten us with your vast wisdom and elaborate on how we are sellouts. This should be good.

You folks are so frekin' retarded, you think anyone who disagrees with the prez is a "democrat" or "liberal" or some BS that you heard from Bill O'rielly while you were sucking on his tiny HooHa.

This goes to show how wrong you are, as usual. I cannot speak for the others you mentioned but I disagree with Bush on numerous issues so I guess you must be the retarded one for making sweeping generalizations without knowing what the hell you are talking about.

I'm not a liberal

Yes you are. Just admit it, then you will feel better.

I'm not a conservative

That's obvious.

You guys are traitors to this country, you support anything the prez does and condem anything any REAL patriot to this country does

Again, I disagree with the President on lots of issues so again, you are just talking out of your ass. And I guess by 'REAL' patriots you mean a person like yourself who is a terrorists sympathizer right? Pffttt....

I'm just stating what I believe many on this forum feel. Quit derailing threads, you're nothing but a bunch of trolls.

Right, got it. We disagree with you so we are trolls. Typical liberal way of thinking. Since you cannot think for yourself and only spew liberal propaganda and talking points, you want to silence those like myself who disagree with your warped way of thinking. Sad and Pathetic.

I'm coming down and little hard and a little brash.

And a little ignorant. Scratch that, make it extremely ignorant and a tool.

shocking treatment of a minor

I'm a little puzzled that sites like this and others have so many war lovers posting?Out in the real world there tiny but on here there chest thumpingly big in numbers.Never mind,keeps them happy and its amusing to read

Afganistan is another bogus war from a draft dodger in the white house and the other a bible basher at NO 10.
The taliban would ony give over Bin Laden if the US showed them evidence that linked him to 9/11.They of course had no evidence and did the normal weapons testing from high above on sandal wearing Ak47 waving peasants driving pick ups!

even if this kid throw a grenade he had every right too,we are the invaders installing a puppet goverment to rape that country of its natural resources and position our troops on another side of Iran for the conflict ahead.We dont give a toss about them,never have and never will

We did the same with Iraq tunring a beutifull country into hell on earth and our sights are on those damm persians as their president lied about not having gays in Iran and is badly translated by gods children(cough!!!!)to have said he wants to destroy Israel

Hopefully this kid wasnt raped like some young boys in Abu Ghraib ,mind you even if he was it wouldnt stop many here saying he deserved it as he is a terrorist!So easy to call them terrorists isnt it!sure the head hacking pond life and bomb planters who kill civies are,but a vast majority are not

There not terrosists,there pissed off people who have had friends or family crushed by our blood thirsty war machine that rolled all over their countries on a Lie.A lie that is left alone by the majority of the media,a lie that lines the pockets of the super rich over the bodies of our fallen,a lie that has tarnished our countries reputation and a lie that will never have the liars Prosecuted!

Do any of you people actually read? He was nine, NINE years old when his father brought him to Pakistan and then Afghanistan. Why do you keep asking why was we there. I've told you all twice, Should I put it in flashing bright lights for those with the apparent ADHD amongst us.

His father WAS a terrorist and a Al Queda sympathizer. Want to know why he didn't get the same treatment as the rest of the kids that were detained and eventually released. Because of his father. I'll try the linky thing again but I know it's pointless. I know no one wants to read something that might challenge their belief.

Why the Pentagon treats Omar Khadr differently

Why did the U.S. military treat Khadr differently than the other teenagers, and why do they continue to treat him differently today?

There may be a couple of reasons.

First, his name is Khadr. He is a son of an admitted al-Qaeda family — and not just any al-Qaeda family.

His father, Ahmed Said Khadr, was a close associate of Osama bin Laden. Intelligence agencies believe that, while he was working as the head of a Canadian-supported aid agency called Human Concern International, Said Khadr funnelled money and fighters to bin Laden in Afghanistan.

]

In the eyes of the CIA, this made Khadr a potential intelligence gold mine.

I even put it in bold it so you can see it better.

Do you think your Government gives a damn who this kid did or didn't kill. That's not there concern. Collateral damage and all. They want what this kid knows.

I gotta go coach my kids soccer team. At least I know I can count on the ten year olds to listen.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
yeah, we don't agree with you so we are 'sellouts'. Please take your faux outrage elsewhere.

Please enlighten us with your vast wisdom and elaborate on how we are sellouts. This should be good.

You and I both know it's not because you don't agree with me, seriously, there are many people on this forum who don't agree with me on many things and I get along with them just fine and I know they are not sell outs.
And I already elaborated on why you guys are sell outs.
Nice how you copied and pasted only what you wanted people to see, just like the gov man, just like the gov, only show people what you want them to see so you can obfuscate the truth.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
This goes to show how wrong you are, as usual. I cannot speak for the others you mentioned but I disagree with Bush on numerous issues so I guess you must be the retarded one for making sweeping generalizations without knowing what the hell you are talking about.

Lol, what do you disagree with Bush about? What company makes the best pretzels? I've never seen you contradict anything Bush has aever said and even if you do it's probably something that doesn't really even matter that much. Show me some proof to back up your statement sir.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
Yes you are. Just admit it, then you will feel better.

No, I'm not, I don't like Liberals, I also don't like conservatives, it's this "football team" mentality conserning both parties I can't stand, the whole Democrat/Republican thing was created just to devide us, see what a marvelous job it has done? Because of the sports like nature people stoop to support there team nomatter wheather they're right or wrong. I don't have a team, I don't like sports, I'm more of a problem solver, not a problem maker. Even though I believe that our votes don't matter, we have a poor choice in canidates eh? We have a Liberal (McCain) and we have a Marxist (Obama), my uber conservative republic mom and dad agree with me on that. So I guess if I were a Liberal as you claim I am, wouldn't I vote for McCain? Honestly dude, admit it, you're a sucker for sports, you're a big sports fan. You've picked your team.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
Again, I disagree with the President on lots of issues so again, you are just talking out of your ass. And I guess by 'REAL' patriots you mean a person like yourself who is a terrorists sympathizer right? Pffttt....

I'm sorry, but I don't have vocal cords in my hind quarters (please try and refrain from using foul language). How do I sympathize with the terroists? I love my country, I just hate my government, there's a big difference ya see, but you're to preoccupied with the political football game to notice though. REAL patriots are people who stand up for what is right, not people who support greedy people who just wanna have more power and money. I support my country, not the government that rules over my country.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
Right, got it. We disagree with you so we are trolls. Typical liberal way of thinking. Since you cannot think for yourself and only spew liberal propaganda and talking points, you want to silence those like myself who disagree with your warped way of thinking. Sad and Pathetic.

I can't think for myself and only spew Liberal propaganda.
Hmm... Yeah, I don't think so, ya see unlike Liberals I believe in God. I also believe in a small government, I also believe that we should have the choice to share instead of it being a government mandate (this is concerning the whole universal healthcare and other liberal ideas), Liberals and Conservatives both have no answers for todays problems, what they have is like sticking some bubble gum in a huge crack in the hoover dam. It won't hold and before long it will burst.
Ron Paul, who used to be with the republican party and is now with the Libertarians (which are mostly conservatives), has the answer to our problems.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
And a little ignorant. Scratch that, make it extremely ignorant and a tool.

I'm a tool? Ya mean I'm some guy who is used by others to achieve and objective or goal? Lol, yeah right, I'm the guy who hasn't chosen a football team, I'm a free thinker, you're the tool, root for your team (the NeoCons) all the time and harass others if they say something you don't agree with, so why did I come after you guys? I'm sick and tired of your propaganda, your obvious spinning of points people make about the party you're for, you sir are just a big of a spindocter as Bill O' Rielly.

I liked how I made some good points that you dare not touch. I know that they're pretty hard to contradict, all you would be able to do is spin them.

-Jimmy

Originally posted by deltaboy
That little whiner ...

That's all anyone needs to hear to know your position on humanity.


Thanks for at least being honest.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
The taliban would ony give over Bin Laden if the US showed them evidence that linked him to 9/11.They of course had no evidence and did the normal weapons testing from high above on sandal wearing Ak47 waving peasants driving pick ups!

Your forgetting that Bin Laden isn't even a muslim(things liek his wedding ring and the coloring of his beard, lol, prove that, plus I liked how there was one Bin Laden that was black lol) and already died back '03.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
We did the same with Iraq tunring a beutifull country into hell on earth and our sights are on those damm persians as their president lied about not having gays in Iran and is badly translated by gods children(cough!!!!)to have said he wants to destroy Israel

Are you suggesting that Iran doesn't really wanna take out Israel?
Hmm... If this is true, than that would be very interesting indeed.

-Jimmy

Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
You and I both know it's not because you don't agree with me

I don't know and thats why I said it.

And I already elaborated on why you guys are sell outs.

I guess you were not clear. It must have been thrown in the middle of your babbling because I did not see where you elaborated.

Lol, what do you disagree with Bush about? Show me some proof to back up your statement sir.

Let's see.....I disagree with Bush on amnesty for illegals, the increase in government spending and the expanding government. These are a few right off the top of my head.

How do I sympathize with the terroists?

Because you want to give them rights they don't deserve.

I can't think for myself and only spew Liberal propaganda.

You said it, not me. I'm glad we agree.

I liked how I made some good points that you dare not touch. I know that they're pretty hard to contradict, all you would be able to do is spin them.

Don't pat yourself on the back because I addressed all your points.
They are only good points in your head when in reality, they are neither good nor hard to contradict. All is needed is a little common sense and logic to defeat your arguments.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
Because you want to give them rights they don't deserve.

They're human are'nt they? I believe they deserve basic human rights.
One of the big problems i see in todays world (throughout all of history really) is that people think that violence solves problems, it doesn't it only makes them worse. "Terroists" (it's debatable that there even were hijackers) flew some planes unto two building and defied physics by bringing them down. So what do we do? We go to war with a country that the hijackers were'nt even from because the prez said "Here thar be dragons", and what do we find out later? No ties to the terroists, hmm...

Ya see I kinda wonder, if these terroists even really did what the gov says they did, what would happen if we as a nation turned around and said, "We as a nation forgive you for what you've done. What can we do to make peace between ourselves?" instead of bombing them? Jesus would'nt bomb them, yet we call ourselves a Christian Nation?

Originally posted by WhatTheory

I can't think for myself and only spew Liberal propaganda.

You said it, not me. I'm glad we agree.

Actually you just took my quote out of context and lied, feel like a D-Bag yet, honestly you talk more like a liberal than anyone else here by taking peoples quotes out of context and lying, (Hmm... Sounds like the gov).

Originally posted by WhatTheory
Don't pat yourself on the back because I addressed all your points.
They are only good points in your head when in reality, they are neither good nor hard to contradict. All is needed is a little common sense and logic to defeat your arguments.

Then you need to get some glasses cause you missed this one (which took up a major portion of my post).

"This kid may have been wrongly accused, show me proof that says otherwise, the problem is that you most likely can't cause it's a matter of "National Securety", that means that any evidence that the gov doesn't want that could possibly show them doing wrong, is kept locked away. how's about all the survalence footage of the Pentagon hit that was confiscated? There have been many FOIA requests concerning the public release of that footage, they have never been able to get anymore than two of those videos out to the public, one of them shows nothing hitting the side of the wall, the other shows a small blue thing (much smaller than a comercial airliner) hitting the building. So even if we request security footage of detainees, we won't get it, why? because the gov does not want to release anything that could possibly drum up support for the up coming revolution that will happen soon. So let's just face it, we're never going to know if this kid was ever guilty of anything, you guy's are just poo flinging monkeys.
One of these days when your forced to comly with martial law you'll look back and see that us crazy CTer's were right."

Or this one (in a later post):

"No, I'm not, I don't like Liberals, I also don't like conservatives, it's this "football team" mentality conserning both parties I can't stand, the whole Democrat/Republican thing was created just to devide us, see what a marvelous job it has done? Because of the sports like nature people stoop to support there team nomatter wheather they're right or wrong. I don't have a team, I don't like sports, I'm more of a problem solver, not a problem maker. Even though I believe that our votes don't matter, we have a poor choice in canidates eh? We have a Liberal (McCain) and we have a Marxist (Obama), my uber conservative republic mom and dad agree with me on that. So I guess if I were a Liberal as you claim I am, wouldn't I vote for McCain? Honestly dude, admit it, you're a sucker for sports, you're a big sports fan. You've picked your team."

THis one's pretty good too:

"I'm a tool? Ya mean I'm some guy who is used by others to achieve and objective or goal? Lol, yeah right, I'm the guy who hasn't chosen a football team, I'm a free thinker, you're the tool, root for your team (the NeoCons) all the time and harass others if they say something you don't agree with, so why did I come after you guys? I'm sick and tired of your propaganda, your obvious spinning of points people make about the party you're for, you sir are just a big of a spindocter as Bill O' Rielly."

Get back to me when you take the blinders off and quit copying and pasting partial quotes so that it doesn't tell the whole story of the point the person made. You sir are an obfuscator of the truth, anyone following just this one page on this thread can see that.

-Jimmy

[edit on 16-7-2008 by jimmyjackblack]