The death of the US Democracy

Thanks for a great thread marg, this is something that I have been rattling on about for quite some time, and is not confined to ATSers and people of a similar disposition, which can be seen here in an article which is about Ralph Naders thoughts on this.

There other well known people constantly condemning the shrub administration for it's rather transparent attempts to justify a war that was only ever about oil and greed, such as this article.

We are faced with the constant dailt propaganda war being run by the corporate stooges in the MSM which seeks to brainwash us into thinking that war is a good thing - but the bottom line is, if you spend hundreds of billions on armed forces, they are going to have to be used at some point, if only to justify their upkeep - so the military/industrial complex is alive and well and is now in bed with big oil to line the pockets of those who are REALLY in charge.

Governments no longer represent the people, they are now a self serving monstrous cancer which lies at the heart of economic woes, and are there only to protect other enormous entities such as the big corporations.

Meanwhile, they wave the banner of patriotism and unthinking people, blinded by the MSM, take up the cry - but recent wars are not, and never have been, about protecting our various countries.

WE are helping to steal other countries resources by NOT doing anything, by NOT making our voices heard, and by NOT voting for change.

The coming decade is going to be a rough one for western nations as India and China start to become true economic powerhouses - and unless our nations can take back control of our economic assets, instead of allowing a tiny minority to control our destinies, then our way of life is doomed - which may not be a bad thing, considering the suffering we have brought to millions in the name of "freedom" and "democracy" which are really just terms for making money for our corporate masters.

budski? But w himself said Saddam was a bad man. Even though Condi couldn't come up with the mushroom clouds.
Surely our governments would not intentionally decieve us would they?
Beam me up Scotty.

reply to post by jpm1602


Thank you, i am flattered by your compliment of my post. I have been a fan of many of your posts. I just hope that we as a people can come together and save this country before we lose it.


My 7 year old granddaughter asked me on the 4th what we were celebrating, why the day was so special. And as i explained it to her it saddened me to have to explain to her that the country is now basically the same thing that we broke away from. I just hope that we can turn it around for them so that they can have the country that they were meant to have.

The USA should never have been a Democracy in the first place...It should have remained the way it was created...A Republic form of government under the Constitution (even though there are Democratic processes within, they are under strict limitations). Democracy took a mortal blow on the day when the Federal Reserve Act was signed into existence...That's when the USA became a Corporate Fascism.

Originally posted by kosmicjack

How Corporate Elitism And Greed Are Destroying Democracy

God knows I can agree with a title like that, I just wish the article was more expansive.

This is why Democracies always fail...Once Government Officers realize that they can vote for public monies to their personal benefit, it's all downhill from there.

Originally posted by bodrul
a good quote from V for Vendetta

“People should not fear their government. The government should fear its people.”

Actually, the movie got that quote from Thomas Jefferson...

Originally posted by kosmicjack
Our policies are being shaped and influenced outside of public discourse or our democratic constructs in behind-the-scenes deals conducted by the leaders of all of the entities you named, and others, that are strictly meant to make the super-rich richer.

Here's another Thomas Jefferson quote: "Information is the currency of democracy."
As it pertains to rule by the elite in America, the People have been impoverished by the elite withholding or outright falsification of information, sharing the truth only amongst themselves. This is why I had finished up my OP in Future Shock with the concept that we're fighting a War FOR Information. The real trick is to freely share the information when you have it...This is what many of the "alternative news" sites do & even WTP organization focuses mostly on educating People than anything else.

Originally posted by marg6043
I am in the same boat as you, I am waiting for some kind of hero that will have enough conjones and be big enough to get away from been tagged as a terrorist to open the eyes of the people and get them out of their butts and into the streets.

IMO, Ron Paul (& Bob Schultz from WTP Foundation) looks to be the modern-day Thomas Jefferson...Even though Dr. Paul has officially dropped out of the Presidential race, he's still speaking up & educating the People to move off their "couch-potato @$$es" & accomplish something.

Originally posted by Promecus
If someone can come up with a decent plan, I'm on board.

Well, there are a few threads here at ATS (which include links to further research) to help with the first steps & I'll list them below. The first steps involve research that will give you the details on how to free yourself from the corporate-system ownership that we've been locked into since birth. The more People that can do this, the weaker (financially) the commercial government & the illegitimate banking system becomes...Making it easier for the People to restore Constitutional Government. The real trick is that Government has grown too big & has imposed more restrictions on the People in favor of Big Corps (especially the Banks). This is because too many Government Officers are violating the Constitution (Article 1, Section 6, Clause 2: Article 1, Section 9, Clause 8) in favor of the "emoluments" they get from their personal corporate/financial interests.
"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."--Thomas Jefferson
"I own that I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive."--Thomas Jefferson
"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country."--Thomas Jefferson
"I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."--Thomas Jefferson

1: Regain Title of Ownership on your body. You need to make corrections on your Birth Certificate & get it changed into a Certificate of Live Birth, having the names of your parents & yourself entered as a combination of upper & lower case letters, the same way you would write your name by hand--ie: John Doe instead of JOHN DOE. You must also be sure that the new changes get officially Recorded instead of officially registered: This can be done with Filing Statements, as per UCC-1.

2: You may "opt-out" of your federal citizenship: Don't worry, you'll still retain your State Citizenship, through your Certificate of Live Birth. Yes, these are two entirely different types of citizenship: One is your State Citizenship (which State you were born in or have been in residence for a least one year) & the other is the Federal citizenship through your Social Security Card (which makes you a 14th Amendment citizen, different from your "native-born" citizenship: The 14th Amendment was intended to grant citizenship to People who did not have it, such as the newly-freed slaves, at the time the 14th Amendment was enacted). You still retain any State-funded benefits for which you may be entitled through your State Citizenship, regardless of Federal citizen status.
The Feds are not a government by Law--They are a government by commercial interests, upholding commercial law (Statutory law) instead of Constitutional/Common Law. In short, you can become exempt to the individual (non-profit) corporate taxation on your labor, but you'll also lose all of the "federal benefits" such as Social Security: It may be possible, once you've established your Exemption Status, to try getting reimbursement for all of those back-taxes you've already paid during your working career. It's much easier to establish your own "retirement funds"(perhaps through the use of self-perpetuating Trust Funds) more efficiently without having to keep forking over your "taxes" all the time.

This takes making up affidavits (It's possible to do this with just one affidavit, but it'll be a very long one) & submitting them to the official Records Office. The affidavit(s), once on record, officially "separate" your flesh-n-blood self from the government-created fictional corporate entity that they use to identify you...And at the same time you reclaim the title over that fictional entity under you instead of them claiming ownership.

The key to your personal sovereignty lies in the fact that you must make them acknowledge you as being different than the fictional identity that the government had created to represent you under corporate law. In short, know yourself & force them to either acknowledge you or let you go: They are loathe to acknowledge you as different from the fictional ID, because for them to do so is to make them admit that they have no jurisdiction over you as a flesh-n-blood human being.

The key to this knowledge is that the courts uphold commercial law over Real Law...Corporate Law (Statutes) can only claim jurisdiction on corporate entities, but have no jurisdiction over Real Law (Constitutional Law or Common Law). Extreme caution is advised--They make their careers by tricking people into entering into Contract Obligation with them...The idea is to refuse to enter into any contractual agreement at all. Never enter into a place where they do have jurisdiction (at the Plaintiff/Defendant tables in front of the Judge's Bench or even step past the separator-railing between the visitors area & the courtroom proper, inside a Federal Building or any other Federal Zone, etc)...Never do anything they demand (without repeating that they have to acknowledge you before you can recognize their jurisdiction), never answer any questions (repeating the same things as you would for refusing their demands). The first time you screw up & enter into any kind of contract whatsoever, they've nailed you. They have no jurisdiction over you until you indicate any acceptance of agreement whatsoever.

-----Continued Below-------

[edit on 15-7-2008 by MidnightDStroyer]

---------Concluded From Above-------

3: Look into Barter Exchanges, rather than use FRN's to buy things...At least as much as possible. The more you can wean yourself away from the illegitimate economy, the better off you'll be. Learn how banks really work & you'll come to understand that it's your signature alone that creates credit...Your signature is the asset that you "sell" to the bank to get cash. Your signature is what the bank puts into their "asset column" while the money they give you is put in their "debit column." This means that you should never let them set you up with providing "collateral" for a loan, because your signature is how the bank balances their bookkeeping! Even without "collateral," their asset/debit columns already balance to ZERO!
There are many more details to research & confirm for yourself, but in a nutshell, this is how banks work.

4: Of course, there's the ever-popular 1st Amendment "Right to Petition for Redress of Grievances," but as pointed out here, there's little hope for success this way. Since the 1st Amendment details the only real peaceful methods for the People to keep the government true to their Constitutional Oaths of Office, the 2nd Amendment is the final solution when all else fails.

These links are keyed to the numbered entries above:
1: Attention ATS! Know The Hidden Meanings...--Many of the points discussed in all 3 entries above are mentioned in this thread.
Man declares sovereignty, challenges jurisdiction of court--The link in this specific post mentions a lot of common sense advice for opting out of your "fictional corporate ID" & how the banks work: This 96-page PDF file also covers some points barely touched, above.

2: Affidavit--An example Affidavit, more specifically geared towards establishing "tax exemption status": May be edited or re-written to re-establish other Rights under Constitutional Law as well.

3: Some of the details in the #3 entry above are covered in the "Man declares sovereignty" link listed in #1.

[edit on 15-7-2008 by MidnightDStroyer]

reply to post by TruthParadox


Well we should ask Cheney, oops we can not, he love to love to have his corporate cronies meeting behind close doors, is his right you know like he said, lets no forget also when he get his littler hunting trips with special friends, I bet game is not what the topic of the day is all about.

reply to post by chise61


I agree, is not the people the one that should fear the government but the government should always be afraid of the people's power.

But in a nation that our government is backed by money and power this people are actually sitting on sand castles, their power is build on deception.

reply to post by marg6043

I agree, is not the people the one that should fear the government but the government should always be afraid of the people's power.

Illogical.

First: All governments fear their people.. the tyrannical ones more so then supposed "free ones" ..

Second: It is the fear of the masses that leads to oppressive behaviors.

Third: It is oppressive behaviors that once exceed the tolerance level of the population that leads to revolution.

Fourth: Revolution gives birth to a new government that, in the moment of inception, is automatically separated from the masses as a completely segregated entity.

Fifth: This leads to oppression as the new government fears it's people.

So .. make the Gov afraid all ya want.. wire tapping .. surveillance .. rights restrictions .. it's because they fear you anyways.

Tyranny is the only way people can be governed .... and I believe people truly do like to be governed..

reply to post by MidnightDStroyer


Thanks Midnight, for all those links and information, the only way to wake up the masses is using the same way that our own corporate ruled government uses to spread propaganda.

This time is awareness, that is the key to open people's mind to what is going on.

Yes we will always find skeptical but hey dip inside they know that something is not right is just that they are confuse.

Media propaganda is a powerful tool, when you see how they use science for manipulation of the mind to promote products, that is the same basic is use to promote the type of government activities we see today.

That is why media was so important and dangerous to let it be independent, it needed to be control and manipulated.

Great thread Marg!!!!! Star and flag!!!
On my first thread about a year or so ago about the coming depression, and tent cities going up in the suburbs, I was advocating a Million-Man march on wall-street. I'm still trying to get it set up, but I can't get any media support on it (big suprise!). I've only got a couple dozen people that would be willing to go, and that won't accomplish anything. The only way it would be successful is if there were several hundred thousand people. That would probably shut down trading for the day, and at least get in the news.

reply to post by Promecus


You know its sad but I think this is only going to happen when the masses are forced out of their 'comfort zone'. So long as the 'system' keeps them confortable apathy will over-ride any desire to act.

www.aclu.org...

1 Million suspects on the terrorist watchlist of the us-gov. including innocent housewifes, travellers, war-veterans, etc.

nice work. nice work.

It is all well known. There is no such thing as democracy

It is not just USA, dear.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Oh my. It was a very Platonic post right up to the conclusion.

Tyranny is not the best or only viable form of governance. Tyranny is where the fever pitch of all those negatives you point out reaches its highest point.

A tyrant is the MOST fearful, and thus the MOST oppressive, the most mad of all governors.

Originally posted by pjsconcrete
Great thread Marg!!!!! Star and flag!!!
On my first thread about a year or so ago about the coming depression, and tent cities going up in the suburbs, I was advocating a Million-Man march on wall-street. I'm still trying to get it set up, but I can't get any media support on it (big suprise!). I've only got a couple dozen people that would be willing to go, and that won't accomplish anything. The only way it would be successful is if there were several hundred thousand people. That would probably shut down trading for the day, and at least get in the news.

reply to post by prolificobsenitees


To do this it needs media coverage to encourage the people to step out and march, but we know that our corporate ruled government can not have dissenters infesting the streets in Washington during corporate election year.

Like I say the media is a powerful tool, but right now is in the hands of the wrong people and not necessarily American people.

One MILLION people on the 'shudders' watch list. I caught that on drudge yesterday too anon.
Housewives, ex service members. All are being scrupulously combed down for a trip to happy camp. By some bean counters sitting behind their monitors and couldn't match a plaid shirt with solid pants if his/her life counted on it.
That... is our current reality.
Home of the free...from sea to shining sea.
Home of the setup and freaked on.
One little chessmove at a time.

I watched a pbs special in b/w a while back. Of common Americans pushing unions at Ford and elsewhere in the 20's and 30's. Saw the batons beating the heck out these people. They survived and made it so.
We must 'make it so'. Somehow, someway.

[edit on 7/15/2008 by jpm1602]

[edit on 7/15/2008 by jpm1602]

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by kosmicjack

 

You know how corrupted is our own government when they are using us the tax payer to bail out the same elite financial institutions that are getting this nation in a hole.

And people still doesn't get it.

[edit on 14-7-2008 by marg6043]

They never will unfortunately. There will always be an aspect of human nature that the greedy and powerful will be able to use to con the voting public to keep them in power.

What is the probability of a party other than Republican or Democrat being elected in the US?

What is the probability of a party other than Labour or Conservative being voted in in the UK ?

In both cases the greedy and powerful (often via the press that they own DUH!) lie, misrepresent etc in order to con the masses who just don't want to think for themselves. So it always comes down to side a or side b. A third party causes too much hassle, for those controlling, so they are always dismissed as irrelevant or extreme. Ever noticed!

Dare I speak it? Freddie Mae and Freddie Mac? But no one gets bailed after that.
Big money, high stakes, and pacs and stealing thieving poiticians.

reply to post by jpm1602


Thats is because many of our politicians have high stakes on this companies if you know what I mean.

They are covering their dirty butts.