I think CERN is lying.

reply to post by Techsnow


We've been reaching and breaking new limits ever since the first one was fired up almost 80 years ago (No, not 70, typo on my side). Why would this be any different?

Regarding the strangelets, let me quote wikipedia

A detailed analysis [19] concluded that the RHIC collisions were comparable to ones which naturally occur as cosmic rays traverse the solar system, so we would already have seen such a disaster if it were possible. RHIC has been operating since 2000 without incident.

en.wikipedia.org...

(RHIC is another collider)

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
... it would help if CERN explained why their machine wouldn't create problems for me in a way that I could understand. I don't understand that kind of gobbledygook.

Maybe if you sell all your belongings, hike to CERN, knock on their door and ask nicely they might explain it in a way only you can understand.

You might want to Google 'Einstein' he was an expert in 'gobbledygook'.


[edit on 14-7-2008 by UFOpsychiczebra]

it is the wisest man that knows there is much he doesn't know.

reply to post by Osiris1953

While I am sure there are sites that put the device into lamen terms, the act of finding such is not as easy as you are making it to be. The OP even stated "it would help if CERN explained why their machine wouldn't create problems for me in a way that I could understand. The OP, and others, was simply trying to get reassurance of the safety of this device without having to take a course in physics, as the first paragraph of every write I've found so far about the project entails that I already would have to know many facets of just the termonology.

Maybe, considering you seem to know where such sites for easy understanding are, you could just direct the OP to them. I'll tell you now, it's not Wikpedia, as there also would require some schooling of physics to understand even the first paragraph.

I apologize for repeating myself, but the OP is asking for insight made as simple as possible, but you are, in essence, telling him to learn physics. If it can't be broken down any less, then just say so, but to harp on the dude with the repeated "go research it" is just uncalled for.


[edit on 14/7/08 by Misfit]

reply to post by Misfit


You know what, i dont mean to sound callous but some people wil never understand or comprehend certain problems. I must admit when they described that massive whole in space where there was nothing, i had trouble comprehending the size of it, in fact i'm willing to bet i can't comprehend it.

Certain people will never understand certain concepts, i hate to sound intellectually superior but it's a fact.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

Nah, not at all callous. There are plenty of things in everyone's world that simply will not ever be understood.

That's why I threw in about "if it can't be", if not then fine so be it just state that's the opinion. But it wasn't tried, just "go find it". That's what get's me, someone's looking, and they are told to go look. That's not what ATS is. At least it didn't used to be.

I am not in any way worried by cern, a nuclear powerplant has more chance to go down.

though I wouldn't miss France and Swiss

a couple questions.If they make a black hole,will it it be traveing close to the speed of light?When Muons hit earth they should decay in about 90 feet,yet some make it to sea level and even into caves because of time dialation.Could these black holes last longer then they think since there is nothing to stop them like at atmosphere or mass?

reply to post by Frankidealist35


Abot CERN. I know something about physics and a lot about CERN project. First the Black holes that you know are totaly different from the one that are going to be experimented on in CERN. The first type ( the one you know) is a cosmic body created from dead supernova the (biggest star there is in the universe) in a result of an implosion prosses. We are speaking of great great mass and matter ( Matter is made from atoms). Imagine that you have a grain of a black hole it will weight as much as L.A. Now lets talk abot the kind of Black holes involved in CERN project. They will be made when two protons (atoms are made from protons and electrons) collide the mass involved in that Black hole will be significantly small 1000 time smaller then one atom. So it will have no gravitational impact. And it will exist for only for a million of a secon. So dont worry

Black Holes do not exist.

CERN is not going to make any... unless they are also going to make pink stripped unicorns as well.


Black Holes and Unicorns

^ for a brief..

V for a sounding beating of Black Holes and other nonsense.

Go here

just this.... remember the story of atlantis..

reply to post by SavageHenry


Very good article you posted there Henry. I like the fact that more and more people are starting to look into the electrical potential of the universe. Now, I don't want to come out saying they don't exist (I don't have the knowledge to make that judgement), but the more you study into the matter, the more you'll find that they are not possible, even Einstein doubted them back then.

Thanks for the link and I too am leaning towards the same opinion you have on this subject.

reply to post by KrisFromGenk



I agree..

I will say they do not exist because they don't... "They" like to say they "find" them all the time.. when the evidence for that is absurdly wrong, usually resulting in some sort of "artistic" rendering.. or computer program.

Then there are people who regurgitate it ad nausea because they saw a show about it on the discovery channel..

There are better answers then ad-hoc mathematical fantasies that have no basis in reality.

Like Dark Matter.. Dark Energy.. Invisible Universes... Neutron Stars.. etc etc.. and all sorts of other highfalutin poppycock.

What is really amazing is how they ignore the electrical role in the universe... then try to replicate or study it using... Electricity.

They call Plasmas a Gas.. and Solar Currents ....WIND...

Bahh.... don't make me lose my lunch.

Naked Singularities...



Most people will buy ANYTHING.

reply to post by SavageHenry


They ignore the electrical component of the universe, eh? What is this:
en.wikipedia.org...
And how about this:
en.wikipedia.org...
Or how about this:
en.wikipedia.org...

So physics is just a bunch high fallutin' abstract mathematical fantasies, right? Just like the rest of physics? I mean never mind the fact that things like GR, SR, and different components of the standard model have been experimentally confirmed out to absurd levels of mathematical accuracy. I mean, who needs math for physics after all? All we need is ELECTRICITY!!!!!111
/sarcasm

Honestly, if you can quantitatively predict the Lamb shift in a Hydrogen atom or the decay of Z bosons better than the physicists without resorting to fairly complex mathematics and physics, I would applaud you. However, when you baselessly state that physics is all high fallutin' mathematical fantasy, and then state that everything can be explained by electrical phenomena, and then proceed to state that scientists neglect the study of electrical phenomena (which they most certainly do not), I have much reason to believe that you have not studied anything higher than purely conceptual physics at a high-school level.



Honestly, you actually misinterpret and resent the colloquial referral to plasma as a gas? I learned in high school physics that a plasma is a plasma (meaning it is a gas-like state where the atoms are stripped of their electrons). There is an entire field of physics known as PLASMA PHYSICS! They actually spend billions of dollars per year, build gigantic tokamaks, and launch satellites into outer space for studying this sort of phenomena. Look at that! I'll be damned!

Or to the colloquial referral to the solar wind as wind? I mean it is a fitting term. It's not like anyone actually thinks it actually a classical continuum flow of a gas. It is a metaphor. It is a rarefied stream of various charged particles emitted from the sun. You'd have to be an idiot to actually think it is actually wind. Any physicist (or high school physics student) could tell you this.

Furthermore, I would suggest you pick up an undergraduate level textbook covering both classical and modern physics (including mechanics, E+M, optics, waves, SR, and some very basic standard model stuff), and educate yourself.

[edit on 14-7-2008 by erkokite]

[edit on 14-7-2008 by erkokite]

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz

Originally posted by Cyberbian
So what you are saying is the the entire Physics community agrees on a single "Theory". There is no debate, no alternative theorys which might turn out to be right after all.

You are right, we are wrong and paranoid, so just shutup while we press the big red button and see what happens!

Nothing unexpected will happen.
Nothing unexpected ever happens when you smash atoms to finer and finer particles at higher and higher velocities?

They do these expensive experiments because they know what will happen? And there is no cause for concern.

And you believe that, that is so cute, absolute prostration to figures of authority!

dude... your a tool tbh, your not listening. When you were little, how did you find out how something worked? You smash it up and see what its made of.

So, apply that to our limited knowledge of particles, untill we know enough to carefully dismember atoms, were stuck smashing them together to see how they work.

Of coruse they know what will happen, you know what happens when you toss a tv out a window, but its the only way to take the particles appart that we know of today.

If you already "Know" then why bother?
I know I am a tool, but you are just being the handle!

Honestly I am not worried about the thing, but I really cannot stand people being disingenuous, and the folks arguing that "Nothing Can Happen!" are shouting honest people with concerns down with a supplicants response.
Worship the masters! They know! They are great, you are poop!

[edit on 14-7-2008 by Cyberbian]

[edit on 14-7-2008 by Cyberbian]

Originally posted by erkokite
reply to post by SavageHenry

 

They ignore the electrical component of the universe, eh? What is this:
en.wikipedia.org...
And how about this:
en.wikipedia.org...
Or how about this:
en.wikipedia.org...

That is merely the tip of the iceberg.... and yes.. Cosmologists by in large ignore the electrical nature of the Universe.

Originally posted by erkokite
So physics is just a bunch high fallutin' abstract mathematical fantasies, right? Just like the rest of physics?

Yes... lots of it is pure fantasy.

Originally posted by erkokiteI mean never mind the fact that things like GR, SR, and different components of the standard model have been experimentally confirmed out to absurd levels of mathematical accuracy.

Oh you mean GR and SR which pretty much discounts the existence of Black Holes by their very nature???

Better go talk to the physicists about that...

Originally posted by erkokiteI mean, who needs math for physics after all? All we need is ELECTRICITY!!!!!111
/sarcasm

Fail

Originally posted by erkokite
Honestly, if you can quantitatively predict the Lamb shift in a Hydrogen atom or the decay of Z bosons better than the physicists without resorting to fairly complex mathematics and physics, I would applaud you. However, when you baselessly state that physics is all high fallutin' mathematical fantasy, and then state that everything can be explained by electrical phenomena, and then proceed to state that scientists neglect the study of electrical phenomena (which they most certainly do not), I have much reason to believe that you have not studied anything higher than purely conceptual physics at a high-school level.

Is that supposed to be painful?... you have no idea what you are talking about .. much less what I am talking about.

Originally posted by erkokiteHonestly, you actually misinterpret and resent the colloquial referral to plasma as a gas? I learned in high school physics that a plasma is a plasma (meaning it is a gas-like state where the atoms are stripped of their electrons).

Plasma is not a gas.. it is Plasma

It is the fundamental state of matter... 99.9999% of the visible universe is in a plasma state.

Magma is also a plasma.. you going to call Magma a gas too?

Of course you know this ... I mean why else would you try at this pathetic attempt to dress me down?

Originally posted by erkokite There is an entire field of physics known as PLASMA PHYSICS!

Yes I am well versed in it.. you should go do some reading.

You should also see how much of what the Plasma physicists uncover regarding the formation of Galaxies ... operation of stars and so forth...

And yes.. by in large it is totally ignored by cosmologists..

Originally posted by erkokite They actually spend billions of dollars per year, build gigantic tokamaks, and launch satellites into outer space for studying this sort of phenomena.

You should pay attention to what these satellites are finding out.. and how it is laying death blow after death blow to the convention concepts of the universe... especially lately.

Originally posted by erkokiteOr to the colloquial referral to the solar wind as wind? I mean it is a fitting term. It's not like anyone actually thinks it actually a classical continuum flow of a gas.

It is not a "GAS" it is a PLASMA... and the flow of electrons in a Plasma is called a CURRENT... a CURRENT is different from the connotations implied by a WIND...

Do I have to bust out Magnetic fields?... and how you CANNOT have them with out an electric current?????

Yeah.. buck Maxwell...

Originally posted by erkokiteIt is a metaphor.

Are we talking Science or Poetry?

Originally posted by erkokiteIt is a rarefied stream of various charged particles emitted from the sun.

That is called a PLASMA

Originally posted by erkokiteYou'd have to be an idiot to actually think it is actually wind.

I agree..

Originally posted by erkokiteAny physicist (or high school physics student) could tell you this.

Is that why we are having this 'discussion'?

Originally posted by erkokiteFurthermore, I would suggest you pick up an undergraduate level textbook covering both classical and modern physics (including mechanics, E+M, optics, waves, SR, and some very basic standard model stuff), and educate yourself.

I suggest you kiss my grits...


[edit on 14-7-2008 by SavageHenry]

Page 1 of this thread seems concerned with blowing it off and saying it's safe - they know what they're doing. What is being forgotten is that most of what they're postulating is theory, and not proven fact.

The bottom line is no-one really knows just how safe this thing is or is not. We will only know after the event. One problem with micro black holes is that they're attracted by gravity to the center of things, so the second they're created, they'll start finding their way into the Earth. This is a problem for two reasons: it will start consuming matter and growing, and it will be unobservable as it won't be accessible to equipment.

Strangelets are what concern me. Their existence at this point I think is theoretical, and based on what is hypothesized about them, I'm guessing they are impossible to study by definition, as the second matter touches them/it, they become strangelets, too.

I wouldn't be so concerned if they weren't playing with energies that can do this kind of thing (theoretically). We might just get more than we bargained for.

I certainly understand the OPs point of view. I'm no Einstein but I've got a vague idea what these guys are doing, and even so, I'm still concerned.

[edit on 14-7-2008 by mirageofdeceit]

Yeah. The bottom line is that theoretically there's no way anything bad could happen. Could it? Maybe. Is it likely? Not even close. It's stupid to halt scientific advancement for something like this where, according to all major theories, it's perfectly safe. It's like not building the first fire because you think, maybe the whole earth will go up in flames?

reply to post by Johnmike


True, if there was even 1% of the solar system getting owned by a miniature black hole, they might not even go through it.

Except, if black holes are real, these are so small, they could literally fall to the center of the Earth without hitting anything because it would be so small, but Hawking Raditation would kill that pretty soon anyway.

How does gravity work with such a small object anyway?

Im glad to see this page leaning towards the belief that black holes are a myth.

They, as far as Im concerned, dont exist, and were just made up to fill in a theory of holes, which physics is(inevitabley I might add)

I dont claim to be an expert on the matter being just 19 but I must say I strongly support the idea of an electric universe, it just makes a lot more sense to me.

So, if black holes dont exist, just what will happen at CERN.
Guess well have to wait and see, itll probably be a discovery so shattering to the conventions of science, that it wont be disclosed^___^