Think Doctors Know Nothing About Nutrition?

Well if you ask me, the best place to start is the FDA. Although it wouldn't directly affect how doctors treat their patients, fixing the evil entity that is the FDA, a la Ron Paul's ideas, would definately jump start an epidemic.

Secondly, the best way to avoid having doctors force feed pills down your throat would be to stay healthy. I believe the best medicine is preventative care. People have to take resposibility for their own health instead of relying on a doctor to prescribe a magic pill that fixes what they broke in the first place.

Unfortunately most people are either apathetic, ignorant or just flat out lazy and don't give a damn what is or isn't killing them. The argument I get when explaining that eating healthily can make them look good, feel good and stay alive is........."Oh yeah, well you could be driving home from work and get in a wreck that kills you. Or you could be struck by lightning. Live it up."

The sad thing is, the same people who make that argument are the same people who cry and moan about the high price of prescriptions, when they could have prevented the condition they now have.

[edit on 14-7-2008 by DevolutionEvolvd]

reply to post by Kontagion


Yeah I agree that both systems do have their problems, though I do disagree on the 'less motivated part' you mentioned, I have never experienced that, but on the other points of 'socialised medicine' as you call it, you are pretty accurate up to a point.

The problems that both systems have is MONEY. The US system because too much money is involved and private interests and the EU system because there is not enough money spent and too much Government interferance.

Neither system should be about money at all, it should be about 'What is right' for the patient. But then, this is not the ideal world .......

Originally posted by DevolutionEvolvd
Well if you ask me, the best place to start is the FDA. Although it wouldn't directly affect how doctors treat their patients, fixing the evil entity that is the FDA, a la Ron Paul's ideas, would definately jump start an epidemic.

Secondly, the best way to avoid having doctors force feed pills down your throat would be to stay healthy. I believe the best medicine is preventative care. People have to take resposibility for their own health instead of relying on a doctor to prescribe a magic pill that fixes what they broke in the first place.

Fixing the FDA is a solid start, I think. The FDA as it is now is USELESS. How many psychotropic drugs have made it onto the market which lead to psychotic episodes? Yeah, I feel real safe.

As far as preventative care - well, maybe health should take on a greater role in our schools' curriculum.

I mean, I remember my high school health class was a joke - "There are several types of drugs - hallucinogens, depressants, stimulants, and opioids are some examples, and uh, they're all bad. Oh, and sex is bad unless you use a condom. Then it's good. Oh, unless it hurts you emotionally. Then don't do it. Uh, and memorize the food pyramid. If you don't eat healthy, you'll get fat and sick. Which sucks. And, well, that about covers health. So for the rest of the semester, I'm pretty much just going to repeat what I've just said."

We need to expand our health curriculum to cover not just health hazards, but healthy living as well. Part of a health class should include a real life "lab" of sorts, where each student is required to live healthier for a while. Students might cheat, and there will probably be a high rate of recidivism following the class, but hey, you might reach a few.

Originally posted by Wotan
reply to post by Kontagion

 

Yeah I agree that both systems do have their problems, though I do disagree on the 'less motivated part' you mentioned, I have never experienced that, but on the other points of 'socialised medicine' as you call it, you are pretty accurate up to a point.

The problems that both systems have is MONEY. The US system because too much money is involved and private interests and the EU system because there is not enough money spent and too much Government interferance.

Neither system should be about money at all, it should be about 'What is right' for the patient. But then, this is not the ideal world .......

Hi Wotan,

Sorry, regarding my comment on motivation, I may have been generalizing from my own experiences. It may not be a universal problem - I just sort of assumed it was.

reply to post by Kontagion


Yeah, I agree with that post completely. Nutritional Responsibility starts in our schools. The food pyramid...what a joke. It's one of the biggest contributors to childhood obesity and adult obesity for that matter.

Unfortunately though, with the Department of Education becoming larger by the day, parent's have little say in what is being taught. Our government is more worried about no child left behind. It's all about the test scores. That's it!

I agree the food pyramid is a joke. make breat the primary source of your food. that will give you diabetes and you'll become fat and you'll get even more diseases.

Preventative medicine is the way to go. inflammation is the primary cause of disease and death. eat fruits with lots of anti inflammatorys in them. wanna not get cancer. eat lots of fruits and get all your anti oxidants. want to fight off disease and have a better immune system eat lots of fruits and get all your phytonutrients. If humans ate properly they wouldn't have half the physical problems that they have.

why do the FDA push complex sugars and starches so much when we know that those cause half out problems. American doctors should actually study the cultures that have less disease and maybe they will notice it's their diet.

Plato said "let thy food be thy medicine and thy medicine be thy food" he was so right.

I agree that Health Promotion/Prevention is better than Cure. What needs to be taught in classrooms is just good old fashioned Anatomy & Physiology and make it compulsory. If it is taught correctly, then the nutrition issue will be raised as will any disease or illness that is brought on by bad nutrition.

Like someone has already pointed out, not all will take on board what is being taught but you may catch some.

Warning: The Anatomy and Physiology lesson needs to be taught in a fun and interactive way or you will definately 'lose some' students. The good thing is, that it will also teach them 'sex education' at the same time.

I am a Nurse myself and I love A&P, but admit it can be boring at times unless you have the right teacher.

reply to post by Wotan


That's so true. When I took A&P in High School, the teacher made that class my favorite even though it was my first class of the day. And I'm not a morning person. We actually got to disect cats. The preservative smell was horrible but the experience was awesome.

It wasnt until I went into the Healthcare profession that it dawned on me that 99% of people actually know very little about how ''they work'' as in their own human body, the processes of what actually makes you 'tick' ....... kinda strange really.

You know, the sad thing is even if one wants to learn about nutrition and taking care of oneself they would have to dig through all of the outdated information that is still being taught as fact. It really is frustrating to hear a dietitian spew out all of the useless misinformation he or she has learned in school, knowing that this person has a 4 year degree and people actually believe every word he/she says on the subject. I've probably already said this before in here but it is people will believe whatever a person has to say on a given subject so long as that person has a few letters after their name and/or is wearing a lab coat.

I just ran across an article entitled 10 Diet and Nutrition Myths Debunked. While most of the information contained is true, the dietitian who wrote the article has made a few mistakes.

Sugar Causes Diabetes
The most common nutrition myth is probably that sugar causes diabetes. If you have diabetes, you do need to watch your sugar and carbohydrate intake, with the help of your Registered Dietitian, to properly manage your blood sugar level. However, if you do not have diabetes, sugar intake will not cause you to develop the disease. The main risk factors for Type 2 diabetes are a diet high in calories, being overweight, and an inactive lifestyle.

Yes, sugar can cause someone to develop type 2 diabetes. The sugar is responsible for causing overexposure of insulin which, in turn, is the cause for insulin resistance. This resistance, also known as syndrome x, is a usually a precursor to diabetes. These high insulin levels are also what make people gain so much weight. To take it further, being active will increase insulin sensitivity. So, this is really just an argument of cause and effect.

Avoid carbohydrate to lose weight
The key message that many low-carb diets convey is that carbohydrates promote insulin production, which in turn results in weight gain. Therefore by reducing carbohydrate intake, you can lose weight. Unfortunately, this is just another nutrition myth........

Many low-carb diets actually do not provide sufficient carbohydrates to your body for daily maintenance. Therefore your body will begin to burn stored carbohydrates (glycogen) for energy. When your body starts burning glycogen, water is released...

The truth is that low-carb diets are also often calorie-restricted! Followers only eat an average of 1000 - 1400 calories daily, compared to an average intake of 1800 - 2200 calories for most people. To lose one pound a week, you only need to eat 500 fewer calories per day in your normal diet. Therefore, it doesn't matter if you eat a high- or low-carb diet, you will lose weight if you decrease your caloric intake to less than needed to maintain your weight.

This is absurd. We're talking about a low carbohydrate diet not a no carbohydrate diet. One serving of carbohydrates in the morning is enough to restore glycogen levels back to normal. Otherwise, the only time carbs, especially simple carbs, are needed is during and physical activity.

As for the last part here, it just makes me laugh. To think that all calories are the same, whether they be from protein, fat, or carbs, is just flat out ridiculous. Following this dietitians logic, by eating nothing but potatoes, cokes and Mcdonald's Value Meals, as long as I maintain a caloric deficit, I can lose weight. This can't be further from the truth. Macronutrient content, nutrient timing and many other factors must be considered. Not just calories at face value.

I'll go so far as to say that most overweight people consume less calories than is recommended and that they mainly eat 2 very large meals a day. One at lunch and one close to bed time, skipping breakfast altogether.

What people need to know is how the Nutrients affect the human body, how the body processes them in a chemical way and why and where do they go. Then they may be able to make their own minds up as they visualize what is happening to them whilst they are eating.

As you pointed out, some info is all about calories - we know that this is crap - look at Arctic Explorers, the amount of calories they eat in a 24-hour cycle would probably last me nearly a week and they still lose half their body weight.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


F+S for the thread, with recent events you've certainly hit a home truth with me anyway.

my wife is what you'd classify as obese (13yr of marraige will do that to a chick )

she goes to our doctor who we both know is a jerk and he tells her "oh you DONT NEED to eat, your storing enough energy so just have diet shakes to take away the hunger, and your body will burn the fat off as energy.

does this quack not realise that not eating will cause more problems with lack of concentration, feeling flat, and actually makes your body store as much energy as possible because it is not getting much nutrition.

what ever happened to teaching healthy eating + excercise as the best method of weight loss.

and yes, he did offer her wieght loss pills which she refused, much to his dismay.


my wife now attends a womens only fitness club every single day, see's a personal trainer AND nutritionist each week. even the nutritionist said our doctor is clearly a quack with bad advice and little knowledge.
she was appalled at his recommendations.

now i tend to cook all wifey's healthy meals ahead of time and freeze them. its so easy cooking a weeks worth of meals consisting of veggie soups, stir frys and the like.

and just for the record, missus has been losing a few kilo a week since joining that club so they obviously do something right there.

i always knew our doc was a big dumb jerk.... this just proved it.

reply to post by Obliv_au


Thanks

This is a classic example of what goes on a Doctor's office daily. Unfortunately, not everyone is as inclined as to deny a doctor's advice so quickly. They would rather have someone fix their problems for them instead of taking a little responsibility and by trying to prevent such problems. Of course, not everyone is educated on how to take responsibility for themselves.

I try to get my clients involved with everything I do for them. If I plan every meal and every workout while they just go through the motions, they won't learn a thing and as soon as our contract is up they will have gone 1 whole year and learned how to have someone else hold their hand across the street. The point here is that if I can teach them the basics, they can apply it to their lives without a babysitter(me) or a doctor to bail them out. How does the saying go......Teach a man to fish?

-Dev

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


Good thread. Starred.

Ever wonder why there are so many diets, even good diets and so few successful dieters?

People plan to eat a certain way but can't seem to do it.

It's the 'how' of dieting rather than the 'what' that isn't discussed much.

Anyway, another nice thread.

Thanks, I personally think that the reason most people fail is because of their lack of organization and preparation. If you sit down on Sunday and plan out your whole week, which doesn't take long, your chances of success greatly improve.

The thing is, most people will see results on most of the popular diets, the didn't get popular for no reason. I really think it's all about planning. If you know what your going to eat for every meal and have it prepared or at least ready to be prepared, you'll cut down on those cheat meals. Thats how you win!

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


Though planning is important, I still don't think you've hit on the 'how' to succeed.

One important element, though perhaps not -the- most important is:
o Remove all of the 'tempting' foods which are not part of the diet you intend.

Any others?

reply to post by Badge01


Good point! Yeah, I don't have any "bad" foods in my house. I can't or else I'll eat 'em.

I think three others might be this: People do it alone. Having someone either there as a coach or there as a teammate can do wonders. The other might be that people don't give it time. 'nuff said. The 3rd might be that dieters should allow themselves cheat meals, but only a two a week.

HAHA, I thought of another. Trying to eliminate all the bad foods out of your diet at one time can be a shock to your system. It's hard. The cravings are difficult to deal with. Gradually adapting to a diet might be a better approach.

You think?

-Dev

Originally posted by DevolutionEvolvd

...The key message that many low-carb diets convey is that carbohydrates promote insulin production, which in turn results in weight gain. Therefore by reducing carbohydrate intake, you can lose weight. Unfortunately, this is just another nutrition myth........

...The truth is that low-carb diets are also often calorie-restricted! Followers only eat an average of 1000 - 1400 calories daily, compared to an average intake of 1800 - 2200 calories for most people. ...Therefore, it doesn't matter if you eat a high- or low-carb diet, you will lose weight if you decrease your caloric intake to less than needed to maintain your weight.

...As for the last part here, it just makes me laugh. To think that all calories are the same, whether they be from protein, fat, or carbs, is just flat out ridiculous.

I'll agree with you there! The very first time I went on the Atkins diet, here was my breakfast: 4-6 eggs, and 1/4 to 1/2 pound of bacon. I wasn't losing as much weight as I thought I should. Now, the "traditional nutritionist" would say to cut out some of the food. What did Atkins' book say? Add more fat! (i.e., "calories"). So I did.

I then started eating 1/4 stick of REAL butter in addition to the eggs and bacon. That's right, I dipped my bacon in butter. Cardiologists nightmare, right? The only "problem" was: I WAS LOSING A POUND A DAY! I lost 30 pounds in a month, something "real" nutritionists will tell you is impossible without severely restricting your diet. I didn't go hungry once, and didn't exercise!

I LOVE fresh fruits, nut, berries, that kind of thing. But eating very much of them puts me right to sleep. On the other hand, give me 3 or 4 days of eating nothing but meat, cheese, and butter, and you'll swear I'm doing crack AND speed!

[edit on 7-8-2008 by sir_chancealot]

Originally posted by sir_chancealot

I LOVE fresh fruits, nut, berries, that kind of thing. But eating very much of them puts me right to sleep. On the other hand, give me 3 or 4 days of eating nothing but meat, cheese, and butter, and you'll swear I'm doing crack AND speed!

[edit on 7-8-2008 by sir_chancealot]

That's because your body prefers to burn fat for energy. Not sugar, or carbs. Fat is a more efficient fuel source. Period.

Thanks for that reply!

Thats what we need right there.....more of those responses. People just can't get there mind around the fact that you can eat like crazy and still lose weight, as long as you eat the right foods. And if you're working out too, well that just opens up more room for FOOD! YAY!!!!

Dieting for me consists of increasing my calorie intake and limiting carbs. Sounds like an oxymoron huh......High Calorie Diet.....