Why has NASA never gone back to the moon?

reply to post by InfaRedMan


IRM, don't dare to tangle with Zorgon, he will unsheath his sword!!

OK, Z.....ya know I love ya! You've been here a long time, and you have a lot of info to impart.

IRM....you have a great avatar, but take care if you tangle with a great swordsman!!

IRM....Z has a great amount of tongue firmly implanted in his cheek....but he lets out nuggets of truth...spits them out, if I keep the analogy going.

I'm just trying to be Switzerland here, in case the fight starts. Don't wanna see it, no way, no how.

IRM....if you look at the Forum Title....it would help. Calm down, relax, and see what Z has to say. I think it's worth a look, in this Forum.

reply to post by InfaRedMan


Oh dear, IRM....we posted at the same time. Well, cheers to you as well, but you may hate me after you read my latest!!

Hey! I'm Switzerland!!! I'm neutral!!!!!

I have a knife!! (and it's a can opener, and a nail clipper, and a nail buffer....etc) Did I mention scissors? Yeah, it's a scissors as well..

OK, carry on!

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
Infact I won't even grace you with responses from this point onward because your a complete waste of my time! Stop acting like a child with all your name calling, presuppositions and tantrums. I'm tired of it and if I see it one more time, I'll happily report you to staff for T&C violations.

Well no problem suit yourself... but perhaps you should look at some of your own posts... its funny how one side calls out the other for using the same tactics...

Report away as you see fit... I will stand by my participation record...

Now then I have work to do... it seems that they just revealed the Blackswift and Intelgurl got the scoop... so your right I need to spend less time sparing with those who just wish to play mind games.

Here is one you cannot debunk... John and I have been talking about this for some time... ask IgnoreTheFacts

SR-72 Confirmed: Mach 6 Project Blackswift
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I expect I will see you over there Weed old buddy?

TTFN

[edit on 27-6-2008 by zorgon]

Bravo, applaud and thankyou very much, im a beleiver after watching that, i have read the ancient text in english and what is said is correct (in regards to those text) wow im just happy to have learned a new theory that ive never heard before, my next purchase will be a telescope

reply to post by weedwhacker


LOL Weedwhacker!

I digress for one last time.

I'm not the type to be intimidated by anyone, regardless of membership points or time spent at the forum. No I don't hate anyone and I definitely always respect your POV WW (aka Mr Switzerland) !

The beauty of forums is that we don't have to agree on everything but personal attacks, finger pointing and presuppositions are only asking for trouble, especially if they are directed at me. It fails to work in the real world and it definitely ain't gonna work here.

Finally, I am not a debunker. I am a skeptical believer, and yes I have seen 3 UFO's up close and personal. I don't find Alien Intelligence hard to believe in, just people with agendas.

Back on topic:

My real beliefs for why NAZA won't go back to the moon are a myriad of things. I'm happy to entertain many lines of thought, both for education and for entertainment and I've always been willing to discuss any of them in depth. Is it an ET agenda? Possibly. Could it be the there's nothing worth going back for? Highly Possible also. I wouldn't discount either one.

Perhaps it's not the strategic leg up that people may have thought it could have been. Oh yeah, it would take much longer for a warhead launched from the moon to reach it's destination/country than from high orbit... which is where all the money is right now. Just ask NAZA.. LOL!

IRM

[edit on 27/6/08 by InfaRedMan]

Nasa has the funds to go back , it spends billions of dollars every year on research and development. It has looked into replacing the shuttle at numerous times with different designs from different manufacturers. The US spends even more on war. The priority was in the 70's, 80's, 90's and 00's was and still is WAR. It makes more profit from that and doesn't see the profit of going to a rock in space. Sure they thought about the possiblity of a base to launch missiles towards the Earth. To fire a missile to the moon would require razor sharp targetting , as the fuel needed to power a rocket/ nuke to the moon would increase the size of said missile, leaving very little room for the warhead.


Where as missiles from the moon to the USSR would require little fuel for liftoff then you can spray the USSR with multiple warheads you wouldn't have to care where they hit as long as it was the USSR.
As for the bull that the next stage to have a base on the moon will be in 2024 is a load of cobblers, JFK when he gave his man to the moon speech was in the what? late 50's early 60's? then how long did it take to actually get to the moon?65 ish.
Not that long was it?
Yes we have the technology now to send an unmanned truck to the space station, all you need the fuel for really is to start off, make minor course adjustments then slow down at the end? during the journey you can turn the engines off? You can have a few unmanned tugs waiting in lunar orbit ready for when we get there. Surely the tugs can join together to form a lunar orbiter, 1 with air, 1 with fuel, and a couple with habitation modules on?
The techanology has increased so much that the Nasa main control setup had less technology than todays household computer. Now we have 'super computers' debating the universe and taking all computations regarding nuclear attack or natural disasters on the Earth, right down to nearly having 'almost like sim's characters' running around to work out casualty figures.
Surely if the world actually spent less of killing itself with new weapons we could actually return to the moon to study the long term effects of interplanetary or interstellar travel?
As for the debate is there already life on the moon and we'r they warned to stay away? who know's but if the government knows they are there and have regular contact surely they should have said " hang on its our back yard, we can go where we want?".
I'd be really p#ssed if my neighbour said to me that I can't go into my garden .
If they are there surely we can treaty with them to at least have a research lab to find out if its feasible to go further into space.
If 'they' or the government decide it isn't then the rate the Earth is filling up we might as well nuke ourselves now and get it over and done with cause its a waste of our purpose just to fill every inch of this planet to the point where we all suffocate due to lack of oxygen, We're cutting down the rain forests, polluting the atmosphere with our cars and fridges , there won't be enough air for the billions of people that are yet to come.

So my point is this , the Governments or at least ALL the space agencies , Nasa and the Europeans, the Chinese and whoever else is interested should pool their resources and make a concerted effort to get back to the Moon, after all doesn't the moon belong to the Earth and it's people ? and not to one country or the other.


Please no flaming about the dates I really can't be a#sed finding the right information, but you know them anyway right?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Indians in Space??

OK....it is sarcasm.....

Hi WW! It seems you are unaware of the giant strides made by India in space research! Take off your blinkers for a moment and have a look at this:

Have you heard of the soon-to-be-launched Indian Moon mission ‘Chandrayan’?

Chandrayaan-1, scheduled during 2008, is India's first unmanned scientific mission to moon. The main objective is the investigation of the distribution of various minerals and chemical elements and high-resolution three-dimensional mapping of the entire lunar surface. ISRO's Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle, PSLV, will launch Chandrayaan-1 into a 240 km X 24,000 km earth orbit. Subsequently, the spacecraft's own propulsion system would be used to place it in a 100 km polar orbit around the moon.

The Indian payloads on board Chandrayaan-1 include: a Terrain Mapping Camera (TMC), a Hyper Spectral Imager (HySI), a High-Energy X-ray spectrometer (HEX), a Lunar Laser Ranging Instrument (LLRI) and a Moon Impact Probe (MIP).

www.isro.org...
www.isro.gov.in...

Here’s more…
NASA And India Sign Agreement For Future Cooperation

NASA joins India's Moon mission

U.S.- India Space Cooperation. Fact Sheet: US Department of State Bureau of Oceans, Environment and Science, Washington, DC

And India plans to send a man to the Moon by 2018 - that's beating the U.S. in the second race to the Moon!

And by the way, Mars missions have already been scheduled!

As to whether they are in cahoots with NASA and US Military Intelligence and the CIA or America's secret government, I haven't the faintest clue. But I'll be damned if they expose anything there that the US doesn't want you to know!

Cheers!


www.isro.org...


[edit on 27-6-2008 by mikesingh]

...NASA (or anyone else) has never been on the Moon. This simple fact is obvious to many people, yet, if you want to believe the official story, it is your choice.

Originally posted by greshnik
...NASA (or anyone else) has never been on the Moon. This simple fact is obvious to many people, yet, if you want to believe the official story, it is your choice.

Well, if you want to believe in the Moon hoax theory, that's your choice! As for me I do believe we went to the Moon, but weren't told the truth of what the heck was out there - or whether the Moon was made of cheese!

Cheers!

Let me guess, NIKE is the main sponsor for the INDIA Space Administration. I guess they want more sweatshops...



Seriously though... What do they want on the moon? India is in the process of making yet another idiotic film called Terminator Vs. Robocop. Yep, they are actually making that.

I wonder if INDIA WILL be the first people on the moon. They'll rename it PILAU MOON, or Chutney Rock. They'll map out the entire place in two weeks.

Sorry I just can't see the big deal in India going to the moon.

Does anyone know how you get through the Van Allen belt?
could a rocket fly through this belt that was made in 1969?
not only that, at what speed must the rocket be going for the radiation to be safe for humans?

At the moment I'm not 100% convinced that in 1969 they got to the moon.. they may have been an 100 since but in 1969 I do have some doubts..

so to answer the thread starters question: I don't believe anything NASA says..

Originally posted by iamian
Does anyone know how you get through the Van Allen belt?
could a rocket fly through this belt that was made in 1969?
not only that, at what speed must the rocket be going for the radiation to be safe for humans?

Regarding the Van Allen belts, and the nature of the radiation in them, they are regions where charged particles, both protons and electrons, are trapped in the Earth's magnetic field. The flux depends on the energy of the particles; in general, the flux of high-energy particles is less, and the flux of low-energy particles is more.

Very low energy particles cannot penetrate the skin of a spacecraft, nor even the skin of an astronaut. The standard database on the fluxes in the belt are are maintained by the National Space Sciences Data Center at NASA's Goddard Spaceflight Center. Electrons with energies over 1 MeV have a flux above a million per square centimeter per second from 1-6 earth radii (about 6,300 - 38,000 km), and protons over 10 MeV have a flux above one hundred thousand per square centimeter per second from about 1.5-2.5 Earth radii (9,500 km - 16,000 km).

Then what would be the radiation dose due to such fluxes, for the amount of time an astronaut crew would be exposed? Roughly 2 rem.

The time the astronauts would be exposed is fairly easy to calculate from basic orbital mechanics. Escape velocity requires a speed of about 7 miles per second, which is about 11.2 km per sec. At that speed, it would require +- 1 hour to pass outside the main part of the belts at around 38,000 km altitude, keeping in mind some deceleration due to main burn cut-off.

So, in affect 2 rem in one hour would not be enough to make the astronauts even noticeably ill.

More info can be found in "Atomic and nuclear properties of materials", "Radioactivity and radiation protection", and in "Passage of particles through matter". Google it and read on!!

Cheers!

reply to post by zorgon


There's no chest thumping going on here. It takes minutes of reading what you (and John Lear) have posted to see that you have a preconceived fantasy about things and you are on a search to find evidence to support these fantasies. You seem to always have tons of speculation as to what some innocuous "proof" document is saying. What you ignore is that there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of pages generated by government institutions and contractors for all sorts of programs that will never actually happen. In your world, if Caterpillar is asked to develop equipment for potential mining operations somewhere other than Earth, then that supports your claim that we've been mining the moon since the '60's?

I said this on John Lear's forum and I'll say it again here: I think your imagination is great. If you wrote a book and summarily told the story of what you're touting, I'd get in line to have you sign it. It's very entertaining and I think the fact that there IS some sense that it MIGHT have happened this way could lead to a great story if it's written well. The key is that it would need to be in the fiction/fantasy section of the bookstore.

I actually have a friend who is a planetary scientist for NASA. Her job is to study habitation methods for humans on places other than Earth. She's been involved in studying the Mars for colonization and is now working on the same thing for the moon. They've actually been doing this since the 60's. They put together groups of highly educated and trained people and have them study the realities of these things, then generate reports that never get read.

We all know that colonization is an eventual inevitability of manned space flight and if you remember, President Bush talked about moon colonies in one of his infamous speeches back in January of 2004.....

www.whitehouse.gov...

www.nasa.gov...

The problem is Bush set all these high goals for NASA almost like he just wanted the credit for doing so. Shortly after his speech and even today the budget cuts increase and increase and NASA is so strapped for funding right now they are actually scrounging parts from old rockets they have on display at the kennedy space center. Zorgon knows alot about this topic in particular

But the point is that manned space flight inevitably involves colonization and, quite possibly, terraforming. I read a book by a very well known NASA scientist in 1996 called "The Case For Mars" which involved some very clever ways of manufacturing pure rocket fuel in craters on mars as well as other really mind-boggling terraforming possibilities.

Top Secret space exploration is not exactly based on conjecture and speculation either though. There is actually quite a bit of evidence to suggest that there is much going on behind the veil of secrecy even today using black budget dollars. You can see a really interesting thread about this here:

The Top Secret U.S. Military Space Program

-ChriS

[edit on 27-6-2008 by BlasteR]

Originally posted by DataWraith
Where as missiles from the moon to the USSR would require little fuel for liftoff then you can spray the USSR with multiple warheads you wouldn't have to care where they hit as long as it was the USSR.

So remind me again why we are spray bombing USSR with Nukes? I must have missed a day in class... I thought the USSR broke up some time ago

reply to post by BlasteR


The problem is Bush has other issues on his mind...

Bush Declares National Emergency? why?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by StudioGuy
I actually have a friend who is a planetary scientist for NASA.

Marvelous!! And I have several friends and contacts in Boeing, in NASA, in various government positions and the military

So... you listen to your friend and I listen to mine and it seems there are still two points of view... of course MY friends could all be disinfo agents

Now one of my friends told me about a 'coating' that is still top secret... and one of the hard core skeptics here told me he applies this 'coating' to a certain space plane... we have talked about this one for two years... I even posted the AFRL plasma actuator work direct from AFRL 5/1/2006 to be exact...

Funny thing that as yesterday Fox news released it...

We talked about secret space stations and secret astronaut programs... told us we were nuts...

Funny thing is NOVA produced Astrospies and interviewed those secret astronauts... all that are still living holding high rank

And you know what? the skeptics made not a PEEP in that thread Funny huh?

The skeptics said the Chinese and Japanese probes would show us whats what... uh huh I am still holding my breath waiting

The point is you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and whether or not you except... or even look at my evidence is your choice

But to be quite frank I really don't care if you believe anything I say... I am not here to convince you. I present what I find in the way that I and others see it... everyone is free to take from that what they will...

But continuously repeating yourself in several threads telling me how wrong I am... I do not see what that accomplishes other than wastes time by responding to it

Okay I got it you don't believe me... Well you will not convince me without solid proof that I am wrong... and as skeptics believe that its not up to them to show proof we are at an impass... and will just have to agree to disagree


[edit on 28-6-2008 by zorgon]

Originally posted by Element-115
I wonder if INDIA WILL be the first people on the moon. They'll rename it PILAU MOON, or Chutney Rock. They'll map out the entire place in two weeks.

Well according to Buzz Aldrin it will be the Chinese and he says they have been there before

www.revver.com...

Originally posted by iamian
Does anyone know how you get through the Van Allen belt?

How about tossing up some shields?

My favorite NASA paper well almost

ACTIVE SHIELDING CONCEPTS FOR IONIZING RADIATION IN SPACE
1964 Contractors final report

ntrs.nasa.gov...

Originally posted by StudioGuy
In your world, if Caterpillar is asked to develop equipment for potential mining operations somewhere other than Earth, then that supports your claim that we've been mining the moon since the '60's?

Heck NO how silly of you I just found out about the caterpillar contract... All THAT does is reinforce my claim

My info comes from the US Army, General Trudeau and von Braun as well as several FOIA forms filed... (and still waiting to get some documents)

but the fact that it was the ARMY that caterpillar contracted with... not the AF, not NASA is VERY significant

Why would the Army need mining equipment for the Moon? Just think about it for a minute

Originally posted by zorgon
reply to post by BlasteR


The problem is Bush has other issues on his mind...

Bush Declares National Emergency? why?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

That's exactly true. But if I remember correctly it was the Bush administration's idea to go into Iraq in the first place to overthrow Saddam. I'm not saying that he should have NOT attacked Iraq because we needed Nasa funding, but Bush had so much going on it's no wonder his vision of manned space flight got lost in the mix.

When former presidents have talked about their grand visions for manned space flight they have generally stuck to their word and delivered. But this just goes to show how politicians today can talk about these grand visions of space exploration and use it as a simple form of PR while later ignoring it altogether for geopolitical reasons.

Look how much Kennedy had on his plate during the space race. Yet he delivered and put men on the moon and brought them back alive before the decade was out despite all the geopolitical turmoil. It was a much different world back then of coarse.. And NASA had alot more funding too due to competition with the soviet union. But why would someone, as a president of the U.S. give such a speech and then immediately cut funding to NASA for other uses? Other presidents got it done.. And not with near the technology we have today.

We have civilian companies putting people in orbit today with their own funding (although it is quite expensive from what I hear). I wouldn't be surprised at all if a civilian company eventually puts the next man on the moon while leaving NASA in the dust. Especially given what's going on geopolitically right now and economcally. From what I hear NASA has just about the smallest budget ever. When Bush gave his speech in 2004 they laid out an economic long-term plan for how to carry out Bush's vision..

here is this same chart in PDF format..
www.nasa.gov...

As you can see, the plan was to cut funding to ALL nasa activities slowly over time in order to have enough funding later on down the line to make a push for manned space flight. Then the next push for the moon in 2019. The space shuttle will be retired around 2010 and the ISS will have met it's research objectives by about 2016. That loosens up alot of funding for exploration.

But the budget for NASA is continually being cut which throws a wrench into NASA's long-term plans. Then we have the economic situation also which doesn't look pretty. I'd personally love to see men walking on the moon again by 2019, but will it really happen? I highly doubt it will..There is simply too much going on geopolitically, not enough funding, and an economy that is struggling.

-ChriS