9/11 Aircraft Flight Blackboxes?

Just had a thought pop into my head i'd like to discuss with you guys!
On september 11th 2001 3 planes crashed, out of these three planes how many blackboxes where recovered in the wreckages/rubble?

I couldn't recall ever hearing about the blackboxes even though they are designed to survive plane crashes and i thought they would be great evidence for debunkers or theorists in general as the information contained would surely enlighten us to the events of that day?

Thanks guys look forward to your responses
Dskys

There were 4 planes involved and the 'black boxes' were recovered from 2 of them (Pentagon & Shankville) with the flight data recordings intact. The ones at the WTC were not recovered but there are some unsubstantiated rumours floating around.

The aircraft that hit the WTC are the first "black boxes" in a while to not be recovered from a crash site.

It comes down to trying to find 4 of these in a million tonnes of rubble, assuming they weren't pulverised in the collapse that is. But it's still unusual for them to not survive as they're designed to do just that and they're literally bullet-proof.

Thanks Pilgrum how could i forget there were 4! (7 years has gone so fast!) Well i suppose that finding the bb (black box) at the pentagon and in shankville disproves the missile theory then? Strange that they didnt find them at the wtc but as you said pilgrum a million tonnes of rubble is not exactly the easiest place to start looking! Having said that though i would have thought they (the government, aircraft accident investigators) would have made a focused attempt at trying to find the 2 bb's?!
Thanks for the input so far everyone
Dskys

Firefighter Said Black Boxes found at Ground Zero

A New York City firefighter reveals in Book "Behind the Scenes Ground Zero", reveals that at least three of the four black boxes from Flight 11 and Flight 175 were found by "Federal Agents" at the World Trade Center cite, during the clean-up efforts from Sept 2001 to March 2002.

Behind the Scenes Ground Zero

Its extremely rare that we dont get the recorders back. I dont recall another domestic case in w hich we didnt recover the recorders. said Ted Lopatkiewicz, Spokesman for the NTSB.

[edit on 21-6-2008 by driveshaft08]

[edit on 21-6-2008 by driveshaft08]

Originally posted by Pilgrum
There were 4 planes involved and the 'black boxes' were recovered from 2 of them (Pentagon & Shankville) with the flight data recordings intact.

Funny how the voice recoreder could not be salvaged from Flight 77, even though its very rare for this to happen.

Funny how the voice recoreder could not be salvaged from Flight 77, even though its very rare for this to happen.

Try reading the new book FIREFIGHT - goes into detail about the
impact of Flight 77 into the building and the resulting destruction
and intense fires which followed. The CVR (cockpit voice recorder)
was so damaged and charred that FBI agent who found it thought it
piece of junk. Was about to toss it into pile when someone said it
looked important and bring it to NTSB to examine.

The "black boxes" while encased in armoured box are designed to resist
a crash they are not invulnerable - been number of crashes where
boxes were damages/destroyed and data lost.

Originally posted by thedman
Try reading the new book FIREFIGHT - goes into detail about the
impact of Flight 77 into the building and the resulting destruction
and intense fires which followed.

Well thats very funny according to my information the systems are almost indestructible.

911research.wtc7.net...

As a matter of fact, ABC news reported on 9-13-2001 that “Although investigators look for an entire black box, sometimes the only parts of the device that survive are the recorder’s crash-survivable memory units (CSMU). The CSMU is almost indestructible. [A former NTSB source told us that only a direct hit from a nuclear blast can destroy it] ABC also said that “it is housed within a stainless-steel shell that contains titanium or aluminum and a high-temperature insulation of dry silica material.”

Well thats very funny according to my information the systems are almost indestructible.

Almost indestructible in the same way the Titanic was "unsinkable" ?

There have been number of incidents over years where the "black
boxes: were damaged or destroyed to make the data on the tape
unreadable

The data, rather than the whole recorder, must survive the accident so the data storage medium (magnetic tape or microchips) is located within a crash-protected container. The container is designed to survive both high-speed impact and post-impact fire. Flight recorders are not, however, indestructible and sometimes they are destroyed and the data lost.

flightrecorder.com...

Flight recorder design has improved considerably since the devices were first introduced in the 1950s. However, no recording device is perfect. Black boxes are sometimes never found or too badly damaged to recover some or all of the data from a crash. To reduce the likelihood of damage or loss, some more recent designs are self-ejecting and use the energy of impact to separate themselves from the aircraft. Loss of electrical power is also a common event in aviation accicents, such as Swissair Flight 111 when the black boxes were inoperative for the last six minutes of flight due to aircraft power failure. Several safety organizations have recommended providing the recorders with a backup battery to operate the devices for up to ten minutes if power is interrupted.

www.aerospaceweb.org...

Originally posted by thedman
There have been number of incidents over years where the "black
boxes: were damaged or destroyed to make the data on the tape
unreadable

Please show these black boxes that were damaged or destroyed.

Also please post infomration to debate thee information i have posted on the black boxes.

The Discussion looks to be productive so far guys keep it up!
Driveshaft i have just read the link you posted and found it very interesting that one of the firefighters at ground zero mentioned they had found 3 of 4 bboxes that would have been at the site! What i find remarkable though is that the independent enquiry into the wtc no one seemed to pick up on this firefighter on his claims? would there be anyway we could do a foia request to ask for access to any black boxes if or when they were found? Im sure this data would be useful in the public domain to prove the "official" story surrounding 9/11/2001. We cant take the view thought that if they were not found that this is proof of a conspiracy though as thedman has mentioned there have been more than one incident of the boxes not surviving a crash!
Thank you Dskys

Ok, let's debate about the data recorders.

A homing beacon is located in the recorder, but the recent example of the Sharm el-Sheikh
catastrophe shows us that under violent impact the two blocks can split apart. This same example has shown
us how difficult search efforts can be when the recorders have been submerged 1 000 metres below water
surface. There are also examples of recorders destroyed by fire following a crash. Introducing an ejection
mechanism would facilitate their recovery.

www.icao.int...

Flight data recorders can withstand 6000+Gs for a few miliseconds, and at least one particular type has been subjected to 1100C for 60 minutes, and 260C for 10 hours. However they can and have been destroyed throughout the years.

In the only previous accidental crash of a 767, the flight data recorder was destroyed in a 1991 Lauda Air plunge into the Thailand jungle, but the cockpit voice recorder provided a vital clue.

www.nydailynews.com...

But even if the black boxes "survive" the crash, they can be at the bottom of the ocean, where it can take days or weeks to locate and retrieve them. That delay can mean a time of great uncertainty in determining whether an air disaster was the result of a safety shortfall or a terrorist attack. For this reason, the SAFE Act calls for the installation of deployable recorders. Located flush on the tailfin, the spring-loaded data package with its satellite-linked locator beacon would pop off the aircraft, falling safely beyond the crash site. At sea, the deployable recorder would float on the water.

www.avtoday.com...

For its part, the FBI is still denying everything, though with curious bit of linguistic wiggle room. "To the best of my knowledge, the flight recording devices from the World Trade Center crashes were never recovered. At least we never had them," says FBI spokesman Stephen Kodak.

found on: www.counterpunch.org...

A 9-11 rescue worker recently came forward to say he was told by FBI agents to “keep my mouth shut” about one of the “black boxes” a fellow firefighter helped locate at ground zero, contradicting the official story that none of the flight and cockpit data recorders were ever recovered in the wreckage of the World Trade Center (WTC) towers.

found at: www.propagandamatrix.com...

Not sure how reliable these websites are but two quite powerful points if true?

Dskys

I was going to add that the boxes have locators attached to them. They don't just come across them by accident.

4 boxes involved WRT the WTC - 4 out of 4 lost? I find it implausible.

Except that the homing beacons fail pretty regularly. There have been a number of times when they found the boxes by looking hard for them rather than by signal. 9 times out of 10 the box is significantly damaged, including many of the circuit boards inside. But the DATA is intact.

I was going to add that the boxes have locators attached to them. They don't just come across them by accident.

The boxes have a sonar "pinger" to locate them in case land in water

As far as I know WTC buildings were dry land I don't think was any
water 900-1000 ft up.

Problem with the boxes is the magnetic tape recording which can be
damaged or unreadable if box shell is breached and water or fire
can get in to damage the tapes.

Problem with WTC boxes was not only were they slammed into building
and exposed to fire conditions - had a 110 story building land on them
Rescue crews were told to look for the boxes during recovery phase,
despite unconfirmed rumors were not located and presumed destroyed

Actually it's a homing device that can be picked up on land or in the ocean. But it's pretty easy to damage it if the black box is severely damaged.

reply to post by Dskys

Not sure how reliable these websites are but two quite powerful points if true?

This supposed 'firefighter' (Bellone) is a liar and a thief:

"It wasn’t until two years later that we began getting complaints about him," Tinney said. "We have one honorary firefighter and that is a child from the Make-A-Wish Foundation. Aside from the child, it is normally the chiefs and those above who are made honorary firefighters and he (Bellone) isn’t one. He’s saying he was made an honorary firefighter by New York Fire Commissioner Nicholas Scoppetta. That’s a fallacy."911myths.com

Tinney was one of the fire marshals who arrested Bellone, 51, of Brooklyn, N.Y., on Sept. 27, for having an FDNY Scott air tank, harness, regulator and mask. He was charged with grand larceny, criminal impersonation and possession of stolen property, but the charges were later dropped after Bellone returned the items. 911myths

reply to post by Boone 870


Thanks for that info

Sort of trashes his credibility beyond repair.

Old saying: Don't let facts get in the way of the story, especially if you're trying to sell it