McCain's Secret, Questionable (Military) Record

McCain's Secret, Questionable (Military) Record

www.huffingtonpost.com

"At a meeting in his Pentagon office in early 1981, Secretary of the Navy John F. Lehman told Capt. John S. McCain III that he was about to attain his life ambition: becoming an admiral.... Mr. McCain declined the prospect of his first admiral's star to make a run for Congress, saying that he could 'do more good there,' Mr. Lehman recalled." So claimed the New York Times in a front-page article on May 29 this year.

This story is highly improbable for several reasons, not least of all because John McCain himself has always told a very different story about his stalled naval career.

(visit the link for the full news article)

The article goes on to say:

The Navy may claim that it already released McCain's record to the Associated Press on May 7, 2008 in response to the AP's Freedom of Information Act request. But the McCain file the Navy released contained 19 pages -- a two-page overview and 17 pages detailing Awards and Decorations. Each of these 17 pages is stamped with a number. These numbers range from 0069 to 0636. When arranged in ascending order, they precisely track the chronology of McCain's career. It seems reasonable to ask the Navy whether there are at least 636 pages in McCain's file, of which 617 weren't released to the Associated Press.

Some of the unreleased pages in McCain's Navy file may not reflect well upon his qualifications for the presidency. From day one in the Navy, McCain screwed-up again and again, only to be forgiven because his father and grandfather were four-star admirals. McCain's sense of entitlement to privileged treatment bears an eerie resemblance to George W. Bush's.

Despite graduating in the bottom 1 percent of his Annapolis class, McCain was offered the most sought-after Navy assignment -- to become an aircraft carrier pilot.

There is a lot more to this article proving once more that ALL politicans lie through their teeth and ALL politicans pad their resume.

Mister Keating Five is no exception.

www.huffingtonpost.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

The article goes on to say:

Is McCain now getting away with more by hiding his official history and by having his national security adviser inflate McCain's resume with a bogus promotion to admiral humbly declined? If so, McCain may be attempting to hide why the Navy was in fact slow to promote him upwards despite his suffering as a POW and his distinguished naval heritage.

I have seen threads on here suggesting McCain betrayed his fellow POW's but I am not going to run a smear campaign against him... I am just pointing out that he is guilty, like all politicans of padding his resume with good sounding lies.

The facts as stated in the article are consistent with everything I have read as well.

IMO, his sense of entitlement comes through in his public speaking and demeanor. He is very dismissive of the concerns of the average citizen as proven by his outlandish statements such as '100 years if necessary' and "It doesnt matter how long we're there as long as there are no casualties."

In and of themselves the comments are not a huge deal, but it's the consistency in his failing to even grasp the power of words and to give us the courtesy of even appearing compassionate that will do him in.

He's out of touch.

Well, McCain certainly was well connected when he was in the Navy. Until his run for president, I had no idea how powerful his father and grandfather were. I have read a few different accounts of his career and some transcripts of interviews he gave as a POW. I am still not sure where I stand.

I am sure he had some favors and was given some extra leway(sp?), but he still served. He was from my understanding a fairly well respected pilot. So at this point, I don't see his service as a detractor for me personally.

We do live in a strange world where anything can be twisted. This is the same world where John Kerry's purple heart was somehow used to show that his military service was worse than Bush's.....

I think that if McCain were a democrat, then we would be hearing a lot more about his service.

Flagged. Nice find, Grover. After doing some research into his life, it would seem that he's been a jerk all of his life. He left his crippled wife, who had waited 5 years for him to come home, he's lied about his record, etc.

Then he makes his stupid announcsement about bseing in Iraq 100 years - he has to be either really stupid or crazy, or both.

If he's elected, we'll have another 8 years of Bushoid policies. Horrifying thought.

The big thing that annoys me about McCain is his so-called straight talk yet when you look at his record its anything but... that is brazen in and of itself but the biggest scandal of his career was his involvement in the savings and loans crisis of the late 80's as part of the Keating five... a crisis that cost the American tax payer billions and in and of itself was proof positive that blind deregulation is not only shortsighted but an open invitation to the sharks to a feeding frenzy... but that is another story... still he and his cohorts were up to their eyeballs in enabling one of those sharks, John Keating in blking investors and tax payers out of a huge sum of money.

reply to post by grover


Questionable?

There is absolutely nothing "questionable" about his military experience and the sacrifices he's made for his country. I understand Obama supporters seek to minimize his military experience and sacrifices as their candidate (dare I say Messiah?) has the sum total of two (2) years experience as a “Community Coordinator” but please don't let your political bias taint matters of historical fact. McCain suffered real torture for years. He's defiantly a questionable presidential candidate as far as I am concerned but saying his military career is “questionable” veers away from opinion and directly into political propaganda.

One last point: the Huffington Post? That’s kinda like the guys in the 9-11 sub forums posting links to the Afghanistan Daily as a source of unbiased journalism.

reply to post by SlightlyAbovePar


First off while I plan to vote for Obama I am not a supporter per say.

Second the core article in question was pointing out gaps in his service record, not questioning his service.... the article was also pointing out that an article in the NYTimes:

www.nytimes.com...

Was making claims about McCain that McCain himself had not made.

The article was also pointing out the preferential treatment McCain got, or may have gotten during his military career thanks to his father and grandfather, something most certainly NOT unheard of.

SO.... I stand by this thread.

[edit on 17-6-2008 by grover]

As for his torture:

when Mark Salter, McCain's closest aide and co-author, was asked by the Arizona New Times about the first McCain memoir, Faith of My Fathers, that he was then working on, Salter said "the book will showcase a humble McCain. When I worked on this book with him, he just kept saying, 'Other guys had it a lot worse. I think they took it easier on me because of who my dad was. . . . When they tied me in ropes, they'd roll my sleeve up to give it a little padding between the rope and my bicep, you know, little things I noticed. The only really hard time I had was when I didn't go home, and then it only lasted a week, and sometimes I felt braver, I felt I could get away with more.'"

Spin doctors are known for padding their version of the truth. So this revelation really doesn't come as any surprise.

What surprises me though, is that McCain's camp should have anticipated being called out on it. Hell, I'm surprised that the New York Times didn't dig a little deeper in the fact-checking department. Seriously, how hard would it have been to confirm that piece of information?

That said, I think McCain's camp is definitely puffing up his military service.

[edit on 6/17/2008 by maria_stardust]

Originally posted by grover
the biggest scandal of his career was his involvement in the savings and loans crisis

I tried to get a thread going on that ... but no one seemed interested.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
My conclusion was that I thought it should have ended his senate career.

Originally posted by grover
As for his torture:

That's still torture. His physical limitations attest to it - IMHO.



[edit on 6/17/2008 by FlyersFan]

Thanks for posting this Grover

McCain is a shame all the way around. Yes he served and was captured and tortured. That sucks. His service was honorable and he should be given credit where credit is due. However, inflating the truth and improving your image with anything less than the truth makes you look really bad.

McCain should have keep his military record spotless and unquestionable, as it is his strongest selling point. To do this was to make a fatal flaw.

Now it gets added to a long list of questionable actions and statements (misstatements may be more accurate) that are going to weigh him down.

Originally posted by SlightlyAbovePar
reply to post by grover

 

Questionable?

There is absolutely nothing "questionable" about his military experience and the sacrifices he's made for his country.

If the man lied about his military career, sadly that makes his military career questionable. You see if he built himself up on lies and half truths to improve up what he ACTUALLY did, it all becomes questionable.

Yes, the Huffington Post is biased like 98% of all media get over it. If you can find information that dismisses this information provided by HuffPo then pleas bring it, but simply trying to dismiss the source because you don't agree with it's point of view does nothing to support your case.

If you spend 5 or more years as a prisoner of some person or some country, guess what, you develop a relationship with those who hold you prisoner. This is why McCain hugged his VC torturer when they met almost 2 decades later. You will also downplay the event from time to time. This is a quirk of PTSD.....it helps you to live with the crap that other humans placed upon you...you downplay or try to justify the actions of those who tortured you.

Sen. McCain stunned onlookers at the hearing when he rushed forward to the witness table and warmly embraced Col. Bui Tin as if he was a long, lost brother

www.usvetdsp.com...

This guy had the #$%^ kicked and beat out of him. I feel McCain is a true hero and I have the utmost respect for this man.

Read some of the comforts he enjoyed at the Hanoi Hilton[Hanoi's main Hoa Lo Prison, nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton".[35]]

Quote"McCain fractured both arms and a leg, and then nearly drowned, when he parachuted into Trúc Bạch Lake in Hanoi.[34] After he regained consciousness, a crowd attacked him, crushed his shoulder with a rifle butt, and bayoneted him;[34] he was then transported to Hanoi's main Hoa Lo Prison, nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton".[35]"

"Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused to treat his injuries, instead beating and interrogating him to get information.[37] Only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral did they give him medical care[37] and announce his capture. "

McCain was sent to a different camp on the outskirts of Hanoi[40] in December 1967, into a cell with two other Americans who did not expect him to live a week.[

In March 1968, McCain was put into solitary confinement, where he would remain for two years.[42]

My hats of to a true hero as well as to the many who never returned.

Originally posted by maria_stardust
That said, I think McCain's camp is definitely puffing up his military service.

Of course they are. Bush Sr had his military service in the forefront when he was campaigning against Clinton and the Dems said military service didn't matter. They changed their tune when Kerry was running for Prez.

Originally posted by grover
The article was also pointing out the preferential treatment McCain got, or may have gotten during his military career thanks to his father and grandfather, something most certainly NOT unheard of.

Well, that wouldn't be a first. Military or Civilian, if your daddy is the boss, you'll get treated differently.

I know this site is a little bias, but I thought I'd still add it to this thread, people can make there own minds up as to what's true or false.

McCain Lost Five U.S. Navy Aircraft

Navy pilot John Sidney McCain III should have never been allowed to graduate from the U.S. Navy flight school. He was a below average student and a lousy pilot. Had his father and grandfather not been famous four star U.S. Navy admirals, McCain III would have never been allowed in the cockpit of a military aircraft.

*****SKIP*****

During his relative short stunt on flight status, McCain III lost five U.S. Navy aircraft, four in accidents and one in combat.

*****SKIP*****

McCain III lost jet number one in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while practicing landings.

*****SKIP*****

McCain's second crash occurred while he was deployed in the Mediterranean. "Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula

*****SKIP*****

McCain's third crash three occurred when he was returning from flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game.

*****SKIP*****

McCain's fourth aircraft loss occurred July 29, 1967, soon after he was assigned to the USS Forrestal as an A-4 Skyhawk pilot. While seated in the cockpit of his aircraft waiting his turn for takeoff, an accidently fired rocket slammed into McCain's plane.

*****SKIP*****

McCain's fifth loss happened during his 23rd mission over North Vietnam on Oct. 26, 1967,

*****SKIP*****

For 23 combat missions (an estimated 20 hours over enemy territory), the U.S. Navy awarded McCain a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service medals.

The website I copied this from might be a little bias, but all this information is true!

Here's a couple other links that corroborate the info from this article.

John McCain’s Military Record

Early Life and Military Career of John McCain - Wikipedia

Sure seems like a lot of medals for 20 actual hours of combat time and being captured!

[edit on 6/17/2008 by Keyhole]

Yeah, I've seen that site. You're right, it's biased!!

First loss: No idea.

For the Italy crash: Were the powerlines on a nav chart so he even knew they were there???

Trainer loss: Seems like he tried a restart and it failed. Anyone here know what the next step in the boldface checklist is? It might just say, "try one restart. If it fails, eject."

Foresttal loss: That wasn't even his fault. Wrong place, wrong time.

Combat loss: Like he asked to get schwacked by a SAM.

My favs from the site:

"After being periodically slapped around for "three or four days" by his captors who wanted military information from him, McCain called for an officer on his fourth day of captivity. He told the officer, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." -U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain"

I wonder if they even have a clue what "slapped around" for three or four days entails? They make the Hanoi Hilton sound like Club Med.

""Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to terminate my medical treatment if I [McCain] did not cooperate. Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant." Page 193-194, Faith of My Fathers by John McCain"

Ships name and squadron number are painted on the sides of the aircraft. I heard a number of Navy pilots gave up this info for just that reason.

In a POW camp, you have to pick your fights. Why get stressed for info the enemy has? Hold out against stuff you know you can win.

Ran across another interesting article about McCain.

Apparently for the past 25 years, he has been collecting a 100% disability pension check from the Navy.

LA Times: A president Who's 100 Percent Disabled?

Some interesting fallout from John McCain's release of his tax return and other financial disclosures: Ralph Vartabedian of the LAT reports today that McCain receives a tax-free, 100-percent disability pension (nearly $60,000 last year) from the US Navy.

If you ask me, he's DEFINITELY not 100% disabled!

John McCain: On 100% Navy disability pension but fit enough for White House?

And he cannot raise either arm above his shoulder. The Navy has classified him as 100% disabled, which makes the pension taxfree. So is there a disparity and health concern in a White House candidate, who if elected would be the oldest man ever inaugurated president, also receiving a 100% disability military pension?

"Tortured for his country," McCain senior advisor Mark Salter said tonight. "That is how he acquired his disability."

I didn't know that not being able to raise your arms above your shoulders made a person 100% disabled!

No wait a minute, he's not getting his 100% disability for his "disability", but because he was "tortured for his country"!

Does every POW get a 100% disability pension?

Isn't this borderline "stealing from the government"! The man is NOT 100% disabled!

And if he ever gets elected president, we'll have a "100% disabled" President!

[edit on 6/17/2008 by Keyhole]

reply to post by Keyhole



Good question. Do POWs automatically get 100% disability?

And if McCain does, so what? Can't have a president with a disability? FDR was in a freakin' wheelchair!!!!

And how long did Jimmy Carter run the country without a brain?