Government to pastor: Renounce your faith!

reply to post by mybigunit



Nothing like a friendly debate to stir the blood. Unfortunately, I have to prepare payroll for my employee's so I must leave for a while. They know where I live so I have to pay them

please LOOK AT ME can G-d Help me!

When he was giving out faces he mess up on mine LOL.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
I have no opinion about Homosexuality. You missed part of one of my posts. I have no objection to Gay Marriage either.

So then, you can't make the same argument as you claimed you could.

My argument is that censorship is wrong. You can not be for censorship and for freedom of speech at the same time, as they are one in the same issue.

The foundation of this country and its laws are inherently conflicting and contradicting.

You seem to be arguing that freedom of speech should only be granted to those who agree with you. I'm willing to extend it to everyone equally. Therein lies the difference in our points of view.

No. I said I do not support the abuse of freedom of speech, which entails slandering others from ignorance which is then directly related to opinion.

I am an adult of reasonable intelligence and I can look past or ignore comments I don't agree with. Everyone else has that same capacity.

Do they? If you believe that they do then what is the problem and how can we fix this?

A little saying we learned as children was actually quite profound; Sticks and stones, can break my bones, but names can never hurt me.

I agree with that. People can't bother me either, unfortunately for people like us there are others that are very sensitive, what do we do in order to protect them? Tell them that they have to live like us and learn our ways?

Canada has laws which protect against violence, just as America does. If someone harms someone else for being Gay, they should be locked up.

I agree. Or for any reason at all. So you're saying that harm can only be physical and that our laws should be made to revolve around that idea?

There is no need for any other laws that take everyone else's rights away. Gays deserve equal rights, but not special rights.

Well, I agree, and I don't think they deserve special rights either. All I have ever endorsed so far is equal rights, and I'm glad that they are slowly getting them in this article and in the world.

I am not sure how many Canadians chimed in here, but I will. We don't have true Freedom of Speech. We can say what we want so long as it is not defamatory to anyone. Here is what it is says:

Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
a) freedom of conscience and religion;
b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
d) freedom of association.

While it does say that we have freedom of speech, it is followed up later with this:

Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.

Whether I agree with it or not, this quote here is what they use to stop people from publicly humiliating others. It would fall under discrimination.

I am actually surprised that this came from Alberta, we are like little Texas here.

Christians and white males are about the only politically correct targets left anymore. Don't dare be critical of a follower of the most peaceful religion of Islam, but if a Christian says something you don't like, go ahead and whine to the government about it.

reply to post by Blaine91555


Did that earlier today but compliments of the economy its getting harder and harder to keep the pay the same for everyone. Hopefully things pick up soon

reply to post by burdman30ott6

[a channeled response]
Inu is answering this point as an expert. Inu is an archangel and in charge of the Ascension for this planet. No court in the universe can make a person stop hating and using documents from ancient times as a basis for intolerance. The pastor and all are urged to pray to hear the voices of their own angels and so much that has been incomprehensible in the Bible and other scriptures will be made clear to them.
God is love. The instruction not to have sex purely for pleasure but with the sacred possibility of procreation in mind is the basis for the statement that homosexuality is an abomination to God. Actually it is no more so than masturbation or sex using birth control. Definitely the prohibition against taking human life starts at conception and abortion is truly against the whole spirit of God's love is not telling that those who did this in the past are condemned, but that none from now should do so. Please seek the guidance from your angel. You will discover ideas that will save your lives in the tribulations to come. You will learn about the First Ones to set foot on this planet and how they are not Aliens at all. They brought the life here at the angels' request. Seek to learn how to heal the planet in its immense crisis with the guidance of the angels. It is the only hope that God can offer now. Love to you all.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

So then, you can't make the same argument as you claimed you could.

Source.

In January, the main building of Providence Baptist Church, which is located on County Road 46, was destroyed by fire. A few weeks later, Chilton County officials arrested two men and charged them with arson, theft and burglary.

Source.
Members of Pleasant Sabine Baptist Church and supporters gathered today to rededicate the small Bibb County church burned by Birmingham college students in 2006.

Source.
Twice this year a black church has been burned to the ground, but its pastor delivers one message to the congregation: Forgive those who are responsible.

Source.
Officials said fires were set in at least three different locations inside the Sacred Heart Church in Laconia.

Source.
A tenth Baptist church burned in Alabama Saturday, and religious leaders were offering prayers and support for the affected congregations.

Therefore, under your logic, anyone making a disparaging comment about Christians should have their freedom of speech removed; because it could lead to violent acts against Christians.

I found literally thousands of examples of acts of violence against Christians worldwide that were simply because they are Christians.

Lets leave it that I'm opposed to censorship or limiting speech and you are only for freedom of speech when it does not disagree with your beliefs. I think that is accurate, don't you? The evidence and our conversation bear that out. Under my scenario, you are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else and I fully support your right to express your opinion even if I find it offensive.

Perhaps, all Christians everywhere, should burn their Bibles so as not to offend those who do not agree with its contents. Perhaps, we should make printing a Bible a crime as well. If that seems familiar, just read about the Stalinist Soviet Union or Chairman Mao to see the real end result of censorship and limiting speech.

reply to post by mybigunit


Ditto here. I'm down about 25% this year

reply to post by Blaine91555


Heh keep going for me....I own a decorative plumbing and lighting comapny who has a big presence on the web and here locally in Florida and my local business is non existent....its all on the web and that has slowed BIG time. Hopefully for both our sakes there will be some big changes coming up.

Oh and top of it the HUGE bill I had to pay the IRS really put a dent in my stash....God Bless American I guess

[edit on 12-6-2008 by mybigunit]

"I may disagree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Voltaire

You gotta be some kind of creampuff to be offended by merely words.

This bothers me. And I am an atheist who suports gay rights. It is not the government's or court's job to dictate what people can say. Freedom of speech applies to people who's views you disagree with.

As an atheist, should I be able to sue someone who says that not having a belief in God is Un-American? No. I can disagree, and maybe even "be hurt" by it, but that does not give me the right to tell them that they can't say it.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Therefore, under your logic, anyone making a disparaging comment about Christians should have their freedom of speech removed; because it could lead to violent acts against Christians.

Well, I agree, any violent acts in any manner should be considered crime. No one should be able to harm Christians physically and no one should be able to burn down their churches, however if Christians wish to impose their law and opinions based on their unfounded faith in the public, then they will experience the weight of logic, fact and law fall on them.

I found literally thousands of examples of acts of violence against Christians worldwide that were simply because they are Christians.

I don't agree with the physical violence against them or anyone. Nevertheless, it is not my opinion but rather fact they their faith is unfounded and unfactual, their God a contradiction of logic and words, and their savior a supernatural superstition. This is not my opinion but rather I can reveal this through crisp logistics and academic studies along with etymologies.

Lets leave it that I'm opposed to censorship or limiting speech and you are only for freedom of speech when it does not disagree with your beliefs.

No, there is a difference between beliefs and freedom. I am free to love another man if I so desire, you should not be allowed to publicly or otherwise humiliate me and my private life based on "your" ( I don't actually mean you here, I have no idea whether YOU are Christian or not) beliefs, especially if it is not harming anyone or anything except for the paranoia attached to the end time prophecies of such an institution. As if homosexuals cause sin and they are evidence of the ever evil Humanity that God will destroy. There is no evidence or fact there, that is simply ecclesiacal opinion.

I think that is accurate, don't you? The evidence and our conversation bear that out. Under my scenario, you are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else and I fully support your right to express your opinion even if I find it offensive.

No, as shown above it is not accurate. I do not support someone's baseless opinion. All opinion is being used for here is a synonym for insult. No, it is not your right to publicly insult me without consequence nor should it be.

Perhaps, all Christians everywhere, should burn their Bibles so as not to offend those who do not agree with its contents.

I don't know why you would do that. As long as they keep those contents to theirselves and inside their little buildings, then it's fine.

[edit on 13-6-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Just look at new proof on war on teror and see the gov. only prptecting molesters and homosexuals.... look what happend to zeusadam youll see the mentality here also.

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


Excuse me, but you just made a blanketed rediculous statement about Christianity and I don't appreciate it. The issue is not Christianity, it is the governments trying to dictate what we can think and feel. For a long time though Christianity was the law in the States. Ever since we as a country have ignored the principles of the Bible the country has begun a rapid moral decline. We have taken prayer out of schools and out of our lives and now we are paying for it. They can open Senate meetings with a Hindu prayer but when a Christian pastor was asked by one Senator to come and open with a prayer Hillary Clinton called the police to have the pastor escourted off the premise. Pagans and atheists and homosexuals can speak out all they want and noone pisses and moans to make them shut up but let a Christian speak out once and the nation is in an uproar. I read on the news the other day that Shia Labouf has had to make a public apology for calling his friend,,, his friend !!!! a faggot on a video on youtube. They were playing around and he was picking on his friend and called him a name. Some tree hugging fairy farting little cry baby got offended over it when it was none of his business what Shia calls his friend. People on this site tend to hold fast to the whole " Separation of Church and state ". The Church has no place in politics, well it's a two way street, politics certainly has no place in Church. It's not the governments business what the pastor believes and teaches to his Church.

reply to post by Christian Voice


You're going to come at me with this kind of argument? You are void of fact. Christianity was never the law of the states. From the onset church and state have been separated. The law of the states has always been the law of the states. It is the government's business what the pastor publically decries! Keep the homophobes in church or those that commit violent acts, in jail.

Do your research!

[edit on 13-6-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


I have done my research. This country was founded on Christian beliefs. The people that settled wanted to escape the Roman Catholic Church and their legalistic ways and wanted to worship God according to the Bible. Disagreeing with homosexuality does not make someone a homophobe. I do not fear homosexuals. I detest their lifestyle, but as it has been said here many times before it's their decision and none of my business. If tha pastor is required to keep quiet about his beliefs on homosexuality then the homosexuals should remain quiet as well. As far as ordering him to renounce his faith, that's a different story. There would be a fight on their hands when they order me to renounce my faith. There would be an ugly fight that would not end pretty. Why does the Christian faith scare you so bad? Is it because it says that it is wrong to do some things? I think that's it.

reply to post by Christian Voice


Actually not. You should go look up some athiest quotes by the founders of this country and their non-conformist and cannabis ways.

It has always been to separate church from state, EVERY church from EVERY state.

When you provide evidence of any sort other than just what you "state" because you say so, then we can discuss the facts.

If you detest the lifestyle of a homosexual then are you a homophobe.

ho·mo·pho·bi·a
Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men.
Behavior based on such a feeling.

Yep, you have homophobia, get to know yourself.

And please, keep it in a church. The rest of us are fine with who another chooses to love. It's really no big deal. Love is love.

Why does the Christian faith scare you so bad? Is it because it says that it is wrong to do some things? I think that's it.

The Christian faith doesn't scare me, it humors me and concerns me for the future of our world, along with other faiths. It steals intellect and logic and rational reasoning from Human beings and turns them into fanatical warforgod machines.

[edit on 13-6-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
reply to post by Christian Voice

 

You're going to come at me with this kind of argument? You are void of fact. Christianity was never the law of the states. From the onset church and state have been separated. The law of the states has always been the law of the states. It is the government's business what the pastor publically decries! Keep the homophobes in church or those that commit violent acts, in jail.

Do your research!

[quote/]


Or better yet let the Church settle both fronts to child molestation and lawbreakers alike. come to church and you will be saved from crimes committed.


[edit on 13-6-2008 by menguard]

Originally posted by menguard
come to church and you will be saved from crimes committed.

In actuality you make a good point, I couldn't tell if you were commenting from jest or not.

Those not responsible to live without a God can very easily have their life's changed through the delusion of church eudemonia. Though this also leads to an embezzlement of their logic and intellect, I suppose it's a disguised punishment, but at the same time a pay off for humanity. Dumb down those that would use their logic and intellect to harm others. The problem peaks its head when those in charge of these institutions cause their own problems for the rest of the public, and those so immensed in the brainwashing become fanatical. What do we do with the pastors that rant and rave about Homosexuals being so evil and the church members that murder them? Someone's gotta stop it... it might as well be the government, otherwise a lot of churches are going to be burning.

[edit on 13-6-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]